Cables to settle brightness

This week I’m comparing two higher cost digital coax cables from two well known manufacturers. Neither are designed to be passive tone controls. One of the cables allows a little bit more to come through yet it’s smoother with absolutely no digital grain or etch - simply hearing more in a delicate way. Coat hangers need not apply.

Over the past few months, as I improved all aspects of the sound, I noticed it getting brighter and too analytical. I posed the question somewhere on this forum and was pointed at Duelund wiring. It’s very affordable, and won’t need plugs or jumpers, just bare wire, so easy to try.

I swapped out my TelluriumQ Ultra Black II speaker cable for Duelund Dual DCA12GA and am loving it. Admittedly, the TQ did excel in some areas, but crucially tone and musicality is far better, and at a tenth of the price. Overall, it’s a darker, warmer more intimate sound.

If you have a USB cable in your path, then I would recommend any of the David Laboga cables. Purist cables are also reportedly warm, especially the ones with fluid shielding (Neptune, Poseiden).

Otherwise, I’m mostly "there", though am still aware of too much sibilance from female voices. This improves however when I close the curtains (drapes), so I suspect the room is mostly at fault - hard floor, leather seating, windows etc. A family room with no scope for panels, diffusers and traps.

Full article

Dual 12GA

While all of my former Cardas Golden Cross and Golden Reference interconnects  found new homes with owners of brighter sounding class A/AB solid-state amplifiers, the new "Clear" line from Cardas is notably different.

Then within the clear line, Cygnus, Reflection, Clear, Clear Beyond, each of these are different from each other. It’s not easy to recommend any of these without hearing someone’s system, speakers, and room. Makes TheCableCo’s loaner cable program a great way to go. Less guessing for those who don’t want to roll the dice.

Agree on first getting proper source components, sorting network issues, then using cables as the final touch. Speaking of same, I have a set of 1m Cardas Golden Reference XLR’s if they are of any use. Previous components sounded very good with them. My new mono blocs and networking tweaks allow for more revealing silver XLR’s.

A second on the Cardas Golden Reference.  (No longer in their line, but plenty floating around used.)

Full, robust, very warm sound.  Just the ticket for your issues. 

@millercarbon what is better than a well-matched system?

This is the problem with the band-aid approach, otherwise known as system matching. The idea is to cover up flaws of commission with flaws of omission. Proponents of course put it in more favorable language, but the result is the same. 
Somewhere in your system, probably a whole lot of somewheres, is/are the offending component(s). But rather than face that difficult reality the consensus is, cover it up. Thus the band-aid approach. 
Power cords, interconnects and all cables are components in their own right, to be auditioned and selected on their own merit. Not based on how well they hide past errors. Otherwise, even if you do find one that does that job now, odds are the day will come when you go to upgrade and find it cannot be just one component but several as each one merely peels away past band aids and the metaphor collapses, because wounds heal but what’s under the band aid never does, it just sits there festering eating up time and effort and money. 

DACs and Cables can both impact the sound in unexpected ways.

Run a less transparent dac with smoothed over cables, can be veiled over.  

Run an overly transparent dac with extra transparent interconnects, fatiguing.  

A neutral non-oversampling dac with neutral interconnects can be total bliss.   

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Matching components together really well is an art form in itself.   

Well, switch DACs again as ultimately I found the PS Audio too laid back for my system. Now have a Weiss 501. Fantastic in all ways. Sorted the brightness but I didn’t loose sound stage and dynamics.

trying with Sunyata Alpha/Delta now—really a fantastic combo.

@w123ale you’ve chosen the right path! Congrats and enjoy!

I had speakers that I felt were a little bright on the top end (Focal Diablo Utopia III's).  I have very good success with Morrow Audio cables, and particularly the SP-7 speaker cables.  not expensive and they work great.  I also used MA7 IC's as well.  Overall, it was a good match for that system

OP,

Congradulations.  The DAC should only improve as it breaks in and gets more natural sounding.

Source first, then speakers, amplification then cables….that’s my conclusion 

Update: new DAC in the system. PS Audio Directstream.

A/B comparison with my Mc DAC.

I’ve only listened to a couple of songs.

Glare gone, brightness gone with PS Audio. Not a subtle difference.

Good advice from this group on trying a new DAC!

I’ll report in with more impressions soon.

@w123ale You mention interconnects and power cables in your OP but what digital cable are you using? I've personally found digital cables, in my case spdif coax, to make a tremendous difference in sound quality. My current cable by Jorma Cables gave music a nice richness and organic feel.

Herbs and spices should never be used to modify the flavor of a dish.

You should always achieve the exact flavor you are aiming for through the choice and combination of the primary ingredients.

If we are using food analogies we should use one that fits the situation

If your primary ingredients are not good, you can't make a superior dish by adding herbs and spices. You may make it edible, but it would be much better if your primary ingredients were better to begin with. 

Herbs and spices should never be used to modify the flavor of a dish.

You should always achieve the exact flavor you are aiming for through the choice and combination of the primary ingredients.

no argument on the ideal

but not many of us live in an ideal world

that's why having cables to subtly shade the tonality of a system is still useful in the task of hifi system building to achieve a high level of musical happiness

I think you bring up a very importanr point. Ideally you want your components to sound perfect together before working on cable / interconnects.

exactly. If you are trying to use cables as tone controls to dull it down then you need to back up and figure out why your system is too bright to begin with.

@rolox

+1

I think you bring up a very importanr point. Ideally you want your components to sound perfect together before working on cable / interconnects. Then you choose cabling to enhance detail and maybe lower noise floor. So, you will be looking for neutral quiet wires.

This is the most important approach to really high performance audio. Get things perfectly balanced at the component level, then wires, power, room treatments, and finally vibration control. This is how you get to the very best and most cost effective sound.

Another vote for Cardas Clear Reflection, definitely smooth and musical.

I personally use Cardas Clear Beyond IC and SC but my system is not bright.

The Sonore will mask much of the noise generated by a generic network switch.  That is what it was designed to do.  My guess if is its really that new to you, new sound is different and takes time to adjust.  You could try just putting the old DAC back and see what happens.  not the best A/B, but you can tell if the harshness goes.  Then try different interconnects and see if that helps with new DAC

@fittebd my old DAC was a highly modified Beresford, maxed out at 96/24 and lacked USB.  I still have it, so if I had some time, I could go from the UltraDigital to the Beresford with a coax cable.  I have enough inputs on my pre to hook both DACs up at once.  I would need a pair of decent ICs, though.  I know I really should do this, as it would tell me if it's the DAC or all the other stuff preceding it.  Yes, I have an inexpensive network switch, and no, I have not upgraded its power supply.

@earthtones I am considering the Sonore optical converter boxes.  Reasonably priced, and returnable if it doesn't do the trick.  My digital chain is already kind of a Rube Goldberg contraption, and this would make it moreso.  But if it works, who cares?  As soon as I have the budget for it, I will try it and report back.

@bondmanp I second how do you know its not the DAC? What was your original Digital chain you mention?  I use Sonore along with many others and have zero issues with treble. I have Be tweeters in my Sorpras. So if it was going to be bright they would show it.

for the OP I agree do not use Silver. Tried my Ver1 Nordost Blue Heavens and I hated them with these speakers. Cardas now and I love them. I have the PowerPlant 20 with everything plugged into it.as well. No harshness at all. Stay copper. I use Audioquest Mckenzie for interconnects.

I'm willing to bet that it isn't your cables or your DAC. It is noise. And it isn't really bright as much as it is brittle, like fingernails on a chalkboard in the middle of the high end. You don't hear it specifically until it isn't there and you go back to your prior configuration. It'll be either power-line noise or source/transmission noise coming through your router or switch (or both). In my experience, filtering or fixing one or both will provide noticeable results.

Do you have optical ethernet isolation to your DAC? If not I would definitely look into that. It removed a fatiguing bright scrim that I suffered with for years. I have a Sonore optcalRendu going to an ultraDigital to I2S on my PS Audio Directstream, and I replaced all the switch mode power supplies with linear,

Kubala Sosna Emotion. Warm

The amount of contradictory answers on this thread is mesmerizing.

Yes, you can cure (to a point) brightness by swapping cables, but I would first try a different DAC and see if things get better. Then eventually fine-tune with cables. It makes me laugh when I read "do not use cables as tone controls". Cables have a sound, and you pretty much cannot do without them, so they have to be taken into consideration when you voice a system. It is those who consider cables as mere physical connections without any sonic personality who have it all wrong, and good luck to them achieving what they want.

TARA LABS OR PURIST.

Assuming one already has decent cables, they can definitely influence sound. I had Audioquest Rocket 44s in my setup which I bought just to get the system going which were very good but certainly not a top tier cable.

I recently added in Clarus Crimson cables which are higher quality copper and multi-strand. Based on other member's experience I spoke with, I wanted to try these to take the slight edge off the brightness I was getting on certain recordings as well as step up the quality of speaker cables given the rest of the system has leveled up.

These cables did what I was hoping, the system is as detailed if not more detailed than before but most importantly took the edge off the slight brightness. It also gave more body to the mid-range. The improvement was not as significant as changing other major components but just enough to do exactly what I was looking for.

Wires are tone control, there is not way around it, its just the physics of cables. To tame the brightness try to find some cables that have conductors of larger diameter than the cables your are using.

@duckworp I doubt it's the Denafrips.  It's the fifth DAC I tried and best sounding of all except maybe my old DAC, which wasn't as good sounding in other ways, much more homogeneous sounding, making everything sound warm and smooth with reasonable detail.  I am pretty sure it's the fact that I went from WiFi using coax cable to Ethernet using both USB and I2S over HDMI.  Lots of variables, no time to try and identify exactly what the problem is, and I have blown my hifi budget for at least this year.  Whaddya gonna do?

Cardas

I would try Some of the Tellurium Q range; they are actually grouped according to two axes: tone and resolution, so they are easy to chose as per the OP needs

I had the Black II in my system and although they didn’t do it for me, it is a very good cable for the price.

Agree not to use cables as tone controls, system and speakers may becoming too revealing for poor recordings and plug amp directly into wall. If you don’t have dedicated circuits start there, room acoustics if that’s an option and play with speaker and listening position as that may change things more than cables.

The best cable to settle brightness is a grounding cable to your speaker drivers.

Using cables to tame brightness isn’t going to work to change brightness! Period! 

Strange, because I did exactly that very successfully, with some Cardas Golden Cross ICs.

Use the tone controls.  That's why they're there.  Real audiophiles know their value.

@bondmanp - are you sure it is not the Denafrips dac - was this in your old digital chain that sounded better?   It is unlikely a streamer nor cables that will cause harshness in the top end whereas a DAC can easily be the cause. 

Having said that, I did find on an old Naim CD player that upgrading the mains cable reduced some of the harshness. 

i posted the following in the parallel post on cables that add a touch of brightness to the sound... bears repeating here, imho

i would add, to several who have commented that one should not use cables to alter the tonality of one’s system -- that sometimes we have a system that is excellent in many regards, works very well, pleases us mostly, but just needs a little touch of treble boost or a slight, subtle mellowing of the edge...  this is where cables can help --  i view them as ’last 1-2% adjusters’ for a good system that is pretty much doing what we desire, kind of fine-tuning tools in the ol' tool kit so to speak

it happens, we have all been there...

+1 on the Aurender streamer—mine has been a solid performer.

Using cables to tame brightness isn’t going to work to change brightness! Period! 

@bondmanp 

I would suspect your streamer. I highly recommend Aurender. Either one of there lower level models or an older one. They are detailed and incredibly natural sounding. I have two of them after owning and researching the daylights out of the others. There is a reason Aurender are the most used streamer at audio shows. They mitigate most deficiencies in networking. I run mine directly from wall wart WiFi extenders and have vinyl level performance.

I haven't read the other comments, but if you have a problem with brightness, I wouldn't look to cables for the fix.  Firstly, look at room treatments:  sound absorbers, etc.  Secondly, find out which component of yours is causing the brightness, and consider upgrading, or changing that component.  If you don't have the capacity to do the aforementioned, then you could try various cables from various sources, such as the cable company, which will allow you to test various cables in your system for a small rental fee. 

WOW!  Great thread.  I am in the OP's boat too, but it's not my DAC, which is a Denafrips Pontus II.  I actually think it's elsewhere in the digital chain.  Also have no issues with vinyl playback.  I upgraded to a Small Green Computer Sonic Orbiter i5 about a year ago.  Most cables in the digital chain are from Morrow Audio.  I have a Sonore UltraDigital and UltraRendu, using the I2S over HDMI to connect to DAC.  On some material it sounds really good, but my previous digital chain made everything sound liquid and musical, and I miss it.  I will look into some of the suggestions made in this thread.  Thanks!

Many recordings have a hot top end. What you are hearing is likely an accurate rendering of the recording.

This may be true, and I agree that taking the recordings into account is very important when assessing a problem. I moved into a new home recently, and am in the process of taming some bloat from the bass produced by my rear ported speakers. During the process, I have noticed that in well recorded music, the bloat is very subtle at most. But in others, typically more popular soul and funk, etc., the bass was clearly boosted, and the problem is therefore much more pronounced.

Many recordings have a hot top end. What you are hearing is likely an accurate rendering of the recording. Rock music is particularly bad in this regard! Turn that Marshall stack up to 11!