This would be ok if I had my rig set up behind the speakers but I want to sit on that sofa at the far end of the room (12 feet away) and have my Benchmark DAC 3 HGC beside me so I can plug headphones in occasionally……do I buy long speaker cables (probably expensive), or would I place my amp behind the speakers and run long cable from that to the preamp beside the sofa and if so would this long cable create any issues?
Keep the preamp at it’s location and run the long XLRs as others mentioned.
You can call Benchmark and ask them about the best XLRs, and I suspect that they will tell you that the guitar center ones are fine. @atmasphere mentions that XLR are designed to be immune… and I believe that he uses Mogami Starquad or Cardas, or something pretty inexpensive.
Keeping the speaker cables short is never a crime.
Apparently it’s important to use quality speaker cables - I was a bit skeptical about this and thought it was all sales BS until I read a thread on the “cables” forum where everybody was in agreement that quality speaker cables are very important…..is this the case also with the XLRs
I would not take the testimony of the converted as being a metric for truth.
And the cable deniers are in violent disagreement.
However, short speaker cables do less harm than longer ones, and lower capacitance IC do less harm than higher.
On XLRs the pro-sound industry went to those a half century ago. You will always get people fighting a Joan of Arc battle on how much the interconnects matter… but balanced cable they are pretty well established in studios and venues… since around the Apollo days is not before.
It is argued to the point of tiresomeness as, I cannot hear their system from afar and it is all subjective.
So I almost always just use Mogami and call it a day.
Probably Blue Jeans are a good choice, and lay a rope out to get the length figured out… with all the bends and elevation changes.
or would I place my amp behind the speakers and run long cable from that to the preamp beside the sofa
^this^
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i value the quality of the XLR cables I use, they make a big difference. I am not sure they make the ones I like in that length.
Longer speaker cables are common and for me the cheaper solution for the best sound.
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With few exceptions, it is better to use longer interconnects (RCA or balanced) and shorter loudspeaker cables.
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…ahhh…keep it simple, I’m with erock79
“Get an extension for your headphone cable. That is much more practical than considering lengthening other cables.”
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Disclaimer: I am out of my league when talking headphones. I’m just throwing this out there.
From what I understand, you’re currently connecting your Benchmark DAC 3 HGC to your preamp using the RCA connections. That leaves the balanced outputs on your Benchmark DAC 3 HGC unused. So, here’s my thought.
Why not set your equipment up in the optimum location using shorter RCA connectors and then buy a headphone amp for your couch area, which would be hooked up via the balanced outputs between your DAC and the headphone amp?
I found a headphone amp on Amazon for $289. Just search under:
S.M.S.L SH-9 Headphone Amplifier THX AAA Technology RCA/XLR Input 6.35MM Balanced Headphone Amplifier
I also found a headphone amp (not on Amazon) for $7,000. So, you have choices.
Try posing this question under the headphone section of the forum. You might get some good suggestions there.
Toolbox
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I have had long runs of interconnects (5 - 7 meters) both balanced and unbalanced for two decades now with really no issues. Presently, my RCA (unbalanced) interconnects are Audio-Envy and work very well, noise-free and are very articulate, while reasonably priced. They are low capacitance cables. The longer your runs, the more capacitance in the cables may have some attenuation in the treble range.
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Since you have a lot of Benchmark gear in your system, you may want to check out the Benchmark website and look at their balanced interconnects. They use a Canare starquad cable and charge $144 for a pair of 25-foot cables. You might be able to find more expensive ICs that sound better in your system - but you might not. This could be a good route to go if you're trying not to spend too much money on long ICs.
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+1 au_lait
I ran these with 30K active speakers they sound terrific! For the money, unbeatable. And you can order custom lengths. Bets of luck.
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Speaker cable you can run for several meters without any noticeable sound difference if they are designed right, no need to cost much either.
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My speakers are in front of a bare wall and my gear is off to the side. Speakers are bi-wired with long runs of Kimber (I think) 6TC and 8Tc (but that was a long time ago, so I am not positive) and interconnects are 1.5 m of balanced Kimber Silver Streak (I went with 1.5 m because once upon a time I needed more flexibility with gear position).
I personally think my system is sounding fantastic at the present, but this thread has got me rethinking what the sonic advantages might be if I put the amp (Cary V12) on the floor between speakers with short cables and hooked amp to pre with long balanced interconnects. I would need a much longer power cable to do that, however.
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I ran a pair of 7.5 meter, unbalanced interconnects from preamp to amps, with very short speaker cables, for years with no problems. Recently, I replaced my 30-year-old interconnects with Morrow Audio cables, which are unshielded. This caused some noise problems--my amps hummed more than usual and turning on or off a lamp made noise in the adjacent speaker. So Morrow will be sending me a specially-made shielded version of the 8-meter interconnects, and hopefully that will solve the problem while still retaining the superb transparency of those cables.
With shielded interconnects, running unbalanced is unlikely to be a problem in an ordinary domestic setup. In a professional setup where hundreds of feet of cable may be required, balanced cables are appropriate. If ordinary mic cables can be used for a balanced setup, that could save $$, as long as both amp and preamp have the balanced jacks. Balanced cables can transmit a higher output, therefore lower perceived noise level than long runs of unbalanced cable.
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Short speaker cables and long interconnects. Over the last fifty years I have tried both. Depending on your equipment, generally the quality of the interconnects between preamp and amp are more important than whether or not they are single ended or balanced.
‘Also depending on the quality and specific components, typically the quality of the speaker cables will mater most, then the amp power cords, then the interconnects, then the rest of the power cords. Most importantly, each is additive, each improving the sound and in aggregate can make very substantial sound quality improvement.
It would be helpful to know more about your equipment and venue. There is a place under your user ID, under virtual systems. Then you can post only once.
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Hello Thomastrouble! Think about professional installations. Almost always, the control board is near the back of the venue (hall, theater, auditorium, church, stadium) and the amps are very close (just a few feet - eliminating worrys about speaker cables) to the speakers. Balanced cables can run hundreds of feet between the control board and the power amps. An industry standard three conductor (balanced) sheilded cable from Belden is normally used to make the long distant runs. Think about microphone cables in performace locations. Tiny signals (about the same level as a moving coi cartridge) are routinely run for very long runs to a controll booth in the rear of the place. There is a good Chinese copycat cable available from Parts Express if $$ is a problem. You don't have to spend huge amounts of money for those cables. I have set up sevral auditoriums and assure you that things are normally done in the way I have described. The best cables from Guitar Center should be fine. Don't spend over $10/foot, including connectors. Cables are easy to make if you can solder. Happy listening!
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Hi, I would put the amplifier between the speakers and buy an XLR interconnect cable, it is also the cheapest way to solve the issue, an interconnect cable compared to a speaker cable of similar quality is much cheaper, also remember that the length of the speaker cables should be the same for both speakers, no matter if it is not necessary for one of them. I hope it helps you
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Long interconnect/short speaker and short interconnect/long speaker - I’ve run both, and really haven’t been able to really tell a difference between either configuration. And this was with single ended RCA interconnects. I was lucky to have pretty clean power in my new construction home, plus a very benign EMI environment.
What Paul says ^^^ in his initial opening to his video was my understanding: short interconnect/long speaker is best, since the preamp can’t drive the long cables but the amp surely can. But the other side of the coin is that the amp’s output drive capability, damping factor, etc. is best with a short run of cable. So you’re in a double edged sword configuration.
Now with XLRs, however - that changes things up a bit. If you have XLRs, then a long run to your amp should provide you a very clean signal to your amp, then a short cable run to your speakers; the best of both worlds.
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long xlr interconnect and short speaker cables
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Another vote for using XLR cables.
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Get an extension for your headphone cable. That is much more practical than considering lengthening other cables.
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thomastrouble
You will likely discovery the stage will be better, a deeper stage with your equipment off to the side as you’re thinking. If you can’t run balance I wouldn’t sweat it too much but you might need a well shielded cable or one with the geometry to cancel outside noise. I think you’re better with quality speaker cables, and if you have to watch the budget step down on your IC’s. There’s plenty of good really good affordable IC’s out there. If the runs are real long I would suggest Canare or Mogami. If you can run balance then that’s better, and again if the runs are long look at Canare and Mogami which are both great cables especially for the money. Keep your sources if you can off to the side and amp or amps low between or behind your speakers so they don’t interact with stage between the speakers as it will affect both depth to the front and back.
You can always try it both ways and compare, although a lot of work. Try all your equipment on the front wall for a few days, then off to the side. My guess is you will prefer the later. You’ll want to play with speaker placement because what works for the first setup might not for the other. Good luck and trust your ears, not ours.
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I would buy a headphone extension cable, and put the other equipment where it should be behind the speakers. Use the remote from the couch
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I’ve also read that the subwoofer cable is not important at all and a cheap one gets the job done
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Apparently it’s important to use quality speaker cables - I was a bit skeptical about this and thought it was all sales BS until I read a thread on the “cables” forum where everybody was in agreement that quality speaker cables are very important…..is this the case also with the XLRs?
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I would suggest using XLR cables if applicable.
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Hi Erik, the amp I’ll just walk to turn it off, the preamp I can just reach over from the sofa or use the remote. Still ugly thick cables from the amp to the preamp is something I guess I’ll be stuck with.
im completely clueless with cables - can I just use cheap XLRs from, say Guitar Center - would this make a difference?
Also, bit confused at what you mean by “not the whole thing truly balanced”
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Try it! :)
But XLR with true balanced inputs (not the whole thing truly balanced) are your best bet for low noise.
Otherwise, go by what is convenient. How are you going to turn those amps on and off?
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Thanks so far guys - I’ll have to check my Benchmark amp and preamp to see what kind of connections are on there as I’m sure I have some balanced cables laying around.
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"would this long cable create any issues?
No!
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shorter cables to speaker....longer from preamp to amp. XLR is good if your components are differentially balanced
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There are unbalanced to unbalanced converters. I don't know what people think about their sound, but that might be something necessary for your setup.
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Back when I was running separates I used a quality XLR from my MB to Pre. Also keep my interconnects and speaker cables short.
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If you can use paralell cables, put the amp near the speakers, otherwise use longer speaker cables (up to 20 ft)
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I’d run balanced cables to the preamp.
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