Are you operating in the correct SPL window for high-fidelity listening?

I have found the best volume is highly system dependent and that the  volume is higher on inexpensive (less refined) systems. The better my system, the lower the volume I listen to music in general. Now 65db to 75db. I think I started in the high 90’s back in the 1980’s. I don’t thing this is just and age thing, well after 30 or so... but there could be a bit of that. 

I got interested in this "the correct volume" idea. I had season ticket to the symphony for a decade (7th row center). So I would carefully listen to orchestral pieces containing sounds emerging from the silence and crescendos that would confuse my hearing (this is when your ear drums are overwhelmed by the volume). Then I would go home and set my system for that volume. I’m not sure how you could say anything meaningful about average volume of a symphony. I will listen to symphonies at that volume so creshendos are similar (a bit lower than live) to the orchestra hall. But most music I listen to at lower volumes. I seldom find rock or jazz more satisfying at higher volumes unless it has some tie to when I was a teen/early twenties and craved really loud music. 

Not just how loud it is but the position of the volume knob in order to achieve the level of loudness is very important. It's called attenuation.

Another way of looking at this... when you turn down the volume knob you are appling the brakes to REDUCE the signal (resolution). When you turn UP the volume you are releasing the brakes.  The only job of the volume knob is to attenuate/restrict the signal. The less interference the better.

When you have a preamp that adds too much gain and/or place it with an amp that more power than you really need it creates a situation where the volume knob is very low and restricts the signal coming in. It takes an attenuated reduced resolution and then boosts using gain to make it louder. This gain combined with lower resolution adds distortion. This can lead to listener fatigue.

A properly matched system allows for a higher volume knob setting. This allows for LESS attenuation and better resolution. 

A volume knob set at 8:30 is much too low. The higher, less attenuated it is the better, provided it gives you the proper DB of loudness without clipping. 11 or 12 is much improved.

First, the problem is how you measure SPLs.  The measurement will vary greatly according to how you aim the sensing microphone and what type of speaker you are measuring.  For example, planar (either electrostatic or electromagnetic) speakers are characteristically different from multi-driver electromagnetic cone speakers in how they do or don’t focus sound. Also, the microphone sensor of your SPL meter may have a very different angle of admittance than mine, etc. Second, what gdaddy wrote would seem to apply to digital components with a volume control that operates in the digital domain.  Such volume controls do lose resolution, the more they attenuate. I think it’s because digital volume controls simultaneously reduce the bitrate. Most modern digital gear has been engineered with excess bits, so controlling volume in the digital domain does less or no damage than previous. I am not aware, nor have I ever read that the same applies to an analog volume control. Yes, they attenuate, and yes our hearing acuity for very high and very low frequencies will vary with SPLs according to the Fletcher-Munson curve, but why would you lose "resolution" (except for the extreme frequencies where it is more a matter of detecting their presence with your ears) when attenuating? Also, analog controls may be of many different types. Most common are series, ladder, and shunt types.  In a series type control, there are resistors in series that add up to produce the desired level of attenuation.  There you may lose some resolution because of noise and inductance inherent to passing the signal through a string of resistors soldered together in series.  In a ladder type attenuator, for each level of attenuation there is only one resistor in series and one in parallel with the signal.  With a really good ladder attenuator, there ought not to be a problem, Shunt attenuators operate most like ladder types but have some potential issues related to input and output impedance.

85-90 db is a good target.   The most lifelike and still safe for ears.  
 

I shoot for that generally for serious listening and use a db meter to help. 

Some recordings are "cut" hotter than others. There is also the ambient noise of the listening room to take account of, leaving to one side the noise threshold of the system itself. Using high sensitivity speakers (104db), I had to work like the devil to quiet the system from inter-component grounding anomalies and to ensure that the power feeding my system was quiet without using "conditioners." All that said, I can hear the program material at low volume, but to energize the fairly large room my main system is in, I do need to give the system some gain.

I've mentioned this before, but every recording seems to have a "natural" volume at which it sounds best. I manage to avoid having the system "play at me" or sound like a reproduction system; instead, I'm able to get a pretty organic sound that appears from a silent background. Granted, there is considerable variability in different records; but I don't let sonics dictate my preference of listening material. Most of what I'm listening to is small combo jazz on records manufactured in the early-mid '70s, which was a nadir of vinyl production in the U.S. 

It depends on the recording and my mood, but I typically listen in the 70-85dB range.  

When I was younger, and when my system didn’t sound like it does now, I played it much louder to get some sort of a sensation from it.   It had less resolution, more noise, less dynamic contrast , was less coherent, and had a less defined sound stage.  The current system no longer requires that volume level to float my boat, so I typically listen at lower levels.  Once in a while if we have a dedicated listening night, the volume goes up a bit, but I’d be surprised if we ever went over 90dB.

The gap between 70 and 85 db SPL is huge, which speaks to my point that we have no agreed upon standard for measurement in the first place.  So discussing in terms of SPL is meaningless.

Small room here I typically listen in the 55-70db range using sensitive speakers and low powered tube amps it's plenty loud for me.

Depends much on ambient noise level, lower levels mean one can hear deeply into recording at lower volume levels.. I'm late night listener when ambient noise levels generally lower, so 70's  is my usual range.

I basically agree but also believe the linearity of level changes matters. Compression, even subtle compression causes many of us to listen at higher levels to compensate. And compression matters at all levels even the lowest levels.

Fletcher-Munson didn't have neighbours.

The SPL level for best listening is an area I have been exploring lately, and have no definitive answer. I can only comment on what I have observed.

The first thing I will note is that reader reports of what level they listen at are not a very good reference point. I say this since there is no real mention of whether that is with a calibrated SPL meter and where it was placed. Also seldom a mention of what measurement curve is used for the report. Have to assume that most are using dbA unless otherwise specified.

I am in an apartment so tend to pay more attention to it than many. Recently had a neighbor that was very sensitive to certain frequencies which made it a real exercise in trying to control volume. My environment is also terrible to use as a reference since the noise floor tends to be about 30 dbA. At times up to 40 dbA.

I have been changing some components so have been tracking that in relation to how the music sounds to me at different levels. In general quick usage I am using the NIOSH SPL app on an iPhone with the built in mic set to dbA. I have also tried dbC and find that if I feel the sound is well balanced at any level, the difference is negligible (1-2 db). If the music sounds unbalanced to me the difference can be 3-5 db between the 2 calibrations. I have also noticed a difference that I can only describe subjectively. If the overall sound to me is congested the SPL will read quite a bit higher - I have to push closer to 90 dbA to enjoy the presentation. I feel that this is most likely too much emphasis across a mid range frequency spread with poor decay, resonance and harmonics in that spread. Could also be poor decay, resonance and harmonics in the lower frequency; I haven’t done frequency analysis/waterfalls to isolate this. When I am most happy with the music presentation I find that I can listen and enjoy the music at 70 dbA, and that 80 dbA is life like enough for me. So what is the music presentation that I enjoy? A perception of width and depth to the sound stage. That any singer, singing  is in front of the rest of the sounds presented. That drums and percussive instruments are behind the other sounds presented. Natural sound of individual instruments is important, but to me that matters less than the sound stage balance. Obviously the presentation that I like is not the same with every composition. Singer songwriter, jazz ensemble, funk, hard rock, classic rock, big band, chamber music, full orchestra all have different depths and spreads, but as long as the sound stage is balanced I can enjoy the composition.

I do have a calibrated mic and REW to refine my sound analysis and to double check the relative readings that I get with the phone app, but haven’t done that yet. Need to have the wife out for a while to set up and do that properly. In conclusion, to me 70-80 dbA with the phone app is plenty even with a high noise floor. I might even enjoy it at lower volume if the noise floor were lower.

I am not that Scientific about it.  In my 15X19 room, as the SPL goes up, the room eventually takes over and it's not good at all.  So I like it loud enough to hear everything I want without having the room affect it.

The spl meter is only a reference and scientific measurements have variability.wnen you find your reference using it the same way standard to avoid variability that's  nirvana. To cut room reflections dsp is very effective in finding interfearances.enjoy the research and experienc

Probably not - I occasionally look at a db meter on my iPhone. It’s more as a check to make sure it’s not too loud for ,y neighbors. It often reads 75-85db but I am sure there is an opportunity for user error in measurement.  

@budjoe Good that someone else pays attention to listening room noise floors, I rarely observe anyone paying attention to this. There are means to lowering listening room noise floors, attending to this means lower volume levels required to hear lower level details, I suspect this why many report more satisfying listening sessions at night when external ambient noise levels lower, this rather than the cleaner AC reasoning.

If it's well balanced it will sound clear at low volume 

And my speakers sound excellent at 95db peaks 

It's all about quality and balance .

It's hilarious the opinions being presented as facts here. Some volume knobs don't have a start and stop point so "8:30" is meaningless.  Then there's the tired snobbery of "less resolving" systems" (read: less expensive). I guess there are those types in every hobby. 

Correct? No such thing.  Varies depending on room, system, and recording, even with variations from cut to cut within the same album.

@roadcykler  "meaningless" ???  You seem to be unaware of the negative consequences of incorrect attenuation.

The main function of a pre-amp is to attenuate the signal being sent to the amp DOWN to reasonable listening levels. Applying the brakes. How this is accomplished can definitely have a negative impact on the sound quality. Adding gain to a low level signal increases distortion. This IS a fact.

This is why higher end pre-amps use special, expensive volume attenuators instead of simple volume pots. Even some less expensive units like Schitt are very aware of the importance of how attenuation occurs and offer volume upgrades.

I only asked for preferences, not facts. 

To refer to a "volume pot" as an "attenuator" does not necessarily per se make it better. A rose by any other name, so to speak. Yes, some analog attenuators are better than others. Upgrading the attenuator is often a very effective way of making a permanent improvement in SQ, unlike tube rolling, for example. However, I still don't know what "incorrect attenuation" is or means.

"Adding gain to a low level signal increases distortion. This IS a fact." Yes it is, but you are talking here about the converse of attenuation.

Music, mood and beverage dependent.

I play guitar and have played in and  attended enough performances, both acoustic and electric, to have a good sense of the volume level of live music of different sorts.

With serious listening to acoustic music I generally try to match the level I recall of the real thing, with the exception of orchestral music--my room isn't big enough to handle that level.  I listen to a lot of solo guitar and lute, and need to turn down the volume quite a bit for those. (It's unfortunate that even good sound engineers often amplify acoustic guitar too much at live concerts of popular acoustic guitarists.)

Fortunately, my Classé Audio DR-7 preamp has a system of discrete resistors for the volume control of each channel, so sound quality is not impaired by turning down the volume as it might be with potentiometers for volume controls.

As with orchestral music, I may not be able to match the volume level of rock music, so I just adjust it to taste.  I don't have an SPL meter, so I couldn't say what the dBs are.

@markalarsen  It's not only how loud it is that's important but rather how you got it to that DB level. Kind of goes along with the topic.

Quality over quantity might be something to consider as an audiophile.

@lewm   However, I still don't know what "incorrect attenuation" is or means.

For example...If you have a pre-amp with lots of gain you have to keep the volume knob low or it's too loud. You are 'attenuating' the signal down just like stepping on the brakes. Then, taking this reduced signal and adding gain from the pre-amp.This results in added distortion. (low level signal boosted by un-needed gain)

"The converse of attenuation" is not really an opposite. It's simply letting off the brakes more. Not adding 'gas' but like a car on a hill you let off the brakes it will accelerate. Letting off the brakes allow for MORE signal to come through.

Higher quality pre-amps like @drmuso  points out don't impair the signal like regular volume pots that many people have. However, in most cases, a higher volume knob setting is a good thing.

I use an spl meter app on my iPhone at live concerts as well for reference. 

@gdaddy1

”Quality over quantity might be something to consider as an audiophile.”  I am looking for the quantity that gives the best quality.  45db is not it.  110 db is not it. What is your preferred db range?

I know there are some purists who advocate building a system such that no or nearly no attenuation is needed. And certainly most CDPs and DACs make enough gain to drive most amplifiers without an active linestage. So putting such a high level signal thru a linestage that adds gain is unnecessary and probably adds very low level distortion to the signal, but it’s not the attenuation per se that does that; it’s more the gain device in the active linestage. In all my experience I have found that vinyl is different in practice. There you want the phono stage to have a bit more gain than is absolutely necessary or you can get there with an added linestage. This gives a better signal to noise ratio and a fuller sound compared to living on the edge of just barely enough phono gain where you hear more noise and the sound thins out. Attenuating a robust signal always has sounded better to me than barely enough signal, no matter how good the attenuation may be. 

On my setup, the sound stage gets bigger with volume. The sweet spot is around 95db, it's crystal clear great dynamics, and you can start to feel it. 

Most of time, it's around 65-70db to not disturb the rest of the house. But when I'm alone, it's 95db and above. Have had it over 110db a few time, my ears don't like it, but the whole house can feel it. 

IMHO, if you have a volume knob that changes resolution of the signal, you have a crap pre-amp and should get a new one. The volume knob should just adjust voltage gain to the amp, it should not change any part of the signal other than gain.

I generally listen 65 to 75 db. My wife likes it a little louder. I recently went to the Show in SoCal. I was amazed at how very loud the exhibitors played the music. Some of the rooms were just too loud to enjoy. Particularly in the smaller rooms. The Show was very good and a great learning experiance. 

Style  of music matters. An acustic guitar or violin around 70/75. A female Jazz singer or trio,,,75 to 80 db. Some rock or EDM 85 to 90.

I’ve been a pro musician since the 60s, and I’ve learned that there is no bottom line regarding level. After years of hurting people with my trusty JBL festooned Twin Reverb with a Tele or Les Paul I switched to various smaller amps pointed at my ears and miked up appropriately. Still loud for me, perhaps not so much for you. I’ve also spent plenty of time in studios and as a live concert mixer and, again, there’s no bottom line for level...live I just want things to sound good and clear. I spent an afternoon in the 70s watching Glynn Johns mix and it was so loud I think I suffered some hair loss. At home all hifi level is mood based and it seems silly to try and quantify that...only play it loud if I need to hear something from the next room.

I’m listening at 66db now which is optimal for me when I am not constrained by other people or nighttime situations.

Again, what meter, what weighting, what type of speaker (planar vs cone), how are you aiming your meter, what distance from the speaker, what angle with respect to the speakers??? All of these things dramatically affect the meter reading. Therefore, none of the above data have any meaning that others can draw from them.  But I am sure every contribution is meant to be helpful.

I use an old Radio Shack SPL meter set on C weighted and on slow.  I measure from my seated position on my systems:  always an equilateral triangle.  I understand that not all instruments measurements are as accurate as others, but even a iPhone gives you a good idea, even if it does not measure SPL below 50hz. The differences cannot be so substantial that they cannot be compared.

My fault for not asking a clear question.  I wonder if others have found a minimum volume where the bass, midrange and treble all sound the same volume.   An effort to overcome the Fletcher-Munson curves and make the audio spectrum sound flat.

roon tends to do a good job maintaining comparable listening levels however I think all this loudness stuff is recording specific.

Quality of recording plays a big role in how the music fills the room.  

And of course the louder the music the more damage likely to your ears. And damage to your ears is cumulative.  That’s why beginning to smoke a really bad idea.

markalarsen, You wrote, "The differences cannot be so substantial that they cannot be compared."

I use the same meter as you, the Radio Shack. I listen to full range ESL speakers. When I take measurements from my listening position, the readings vary by at least 5-10 db depending exquisitely on how I point the meter.  That is the very thing I am talking about.  And that result is using the RS meter.  How would those results compare to using the iPhone meter or some other meter or if the weighting was different, without my altering any other test condition? (A weighting gives different results from C weighting with the RS meter, too.) The variability in my results using the same LP and the same volume settings on my preamp ranges the same as what others refer to as "different" or a diference in their preferences compared to another contributor. This is not meaningful.

I feel like SPL is both mood- and recording-dependent. 

Sometimes I’ll listen to 100 db sludge metal while performing certain tasks because it helps me focus. 

Other times, I am content listening to sixties big band at volumes that don’t intrude on quiet conversation.

A good system should accommodate both without significant loss of sound quality or resolution. I find that the upper limit beyond which listening becomes uncomfortable is determined more by the room than by the system, in my case that is. 

Preamplification / attenuation is a topic unto itself that has not been satisfactory explained in this thread so far, and though not the main topic it is inextricably linked. Suffice it to say that a very good volume control can make a significant improvement in sound quality, while a mediocre one (which is to say the vast majority) has the ability to ruin your low-SPL listening experience.