Are Headphones Fit for Serious Music Listening?

I listen to my main system at 65 - 70 db typically. Sometimes crank a bit to have peaks get around 80. It is the expansiveness and wide deep soundstage that is so compelling although I can feel it.

I have pursued a great headphone system for at least fifty years. I have developed stationary home and office systems and traveled with portable DACs, head amps, of all kinds. I stacked up tubed equipment in my office... I have at least six sets of top of the line headphones. They always sounded like they were in a different class of experience. Sort of like a great sounding transistor radio. But as you describe.

Then I bought the Woo WA5 headphone amp. It has so much power you can connect speakers to it, huge current. I have a set of Takayuki 300B tubes in it. That is a completely different experience. The full midrange - bass and power behind the sound is completely different then every headphone system I have ever owned or experienced. It is incredibly compelling and addictive. It is hard to put down... like my main system.  It fills the void I think you are describing that headphone systems are missing. Maybe it really is the sound hitting your chest... but maybe you are missing what I was.

You can see my main and headphone system under my user ID in virtual systems.

Yes, they might fit, but I don't like headphones, don't like music in my head.

I get the appreciation for the feeling of the waves of sound in my Livingroom system, and it is an incredible listening experience. However, my earphones are like 2-channel except for the waves of music hitting your body. Though, I do not have to deal with a room, and I can listen late at night without bothering the family. I had to purposely set my ROON Core server to automatically shut down at 2:30AM so that I was forced to go to sleep.

RAAL requisite SR 1a Earfield Monitors Review

I also do not like headphones.

I'm not a big fan of headphones and have a pair sitting on the shelf for last 10+ years. About a month ago I took a flyer on a pair of Fiio FT1 Pro headphones (planar magnetic) for $200. They're open back and really kinda nice. 

Nothing special but they have great extension, deep and articulate base, airy but not fatiguing highs and a really pleasant midrange. The drivers are angled somewhat forward (nothing drastic) which tames down that in-your-head sensation some and I've enjoyed some long listening sessions where I almost dozed off. Never done that before with headphones.

They're quite comfortable but I bought a Capra headband to slip on which spreads out the pressure on my noggin so as to feel like they're floating on my head instead of laying on it.  

So far, they sound great with all genres of music. I run them out of my Technics SU-G700M2. All in all, not bad for the money. Yes, they do lack the 'feel' of the music that I'm so accustomed to but once you get used to it, you trade the feel, impact and your bodies contributions for the intimacy of what a headphone provides.  I don't see it as a competitive way to listening, just another way to listen.

All the best,
Nonoise

I have a pair of B&W headphones and a nice little Fiio headphone amp. I use this setup when traveling on planes or in situations when I'm away from home in a hotel room. That is the extent of my headphone listening. It sounds pretty good and will do in a pinch, but is a far cry from the main rig.

I prefer to sit on the sofa and enjoy my stereo system the way music was intended, with all the feels around me. I also have headphones for when I do not want to make noise for others in the house. I've had solid state headphone amps, and tube headphone amps, but really neither is a game changer for me. I have tried many good headphones and they are truly impressive. Thinking about it, neither is really "better" just different. While I like the $3k-$5k headphones and yes they are impressive, I'd probably never buy a set as they are not that much better for my needs and would never get much use.

I never liked headphones, nor could I tolerate them for more than an hour or two because my ears got hot.

Then I bought a pair of RAAL Requisite SR1A's which do not touch my ears.  Now I listen to them about 90% of the time compared to my highend speaker system.  They provide so much more detail and emotion in the music than does my speaker system.

I hate headphones. I bought 10 pairs and modified them with success. I disliked them even after successful modifications...

I stumble on the AKG K340 and after 6 intensive months i succeed after optimization (6 modifications) to reach a S.Q. level on par with speakers system on all counts... If the recordings was top i had the experience of a complete out of the head soundfield with deep bass i felt with my toes (bone resonance)

My first dedicated room beat the K340...No headphone can beat an acoustically controlled dedicated room...

But my second room acoustically designed for nearfield listening dont rival my K340 at all ( my speakers are 4 inches woofer they are modified and strikingly good but limited in bass output)...

i dislike all headphone save the founder of AKG Dr. in physics Rudolf Gorike marvel ( i read his patent) the only hybrid headphones ever made with a dual acoustic chamber (5 passive tuned Helmhotz resonators).

I read other top of the line review about headphones. i will not mention them, with for example no deep bass ... Why paying a fortune for that?

Others gave a sound closed in the head... like my 9 others headphone...

Thanks Dr. Gorike...

I asked the Russian headphone Kennerton representative about hybrid design as the K340 ? They say that they tried but it cost too much money and time in research for the profit results...They quitted...

There is no other hybrid. The Dharma was dynamic cell with electroacoustic super tweeter...The K340 has a crossover and the two cells dynamic and electroacoustic do each one half of the audible frequencies range.In the mid frequencies the electroacoustic cell work beginning if i remember around 6,000 hertz not 12,000 hertz as the Dharma... Correct me if i am wrong...i forget the exact numbers.

This is why i will die with my K340...

For me, not for the enjoyment of music but a useful tool in the recording/production studio.

It's a personal thing. To each, their own.

Headphones are for when you’re bored thinking about upgrades to your speaker system or when your better half continues to tell you to turn it down. I own 2 very nice dedicated headphone amps and 3 sets of headphones.  Oh, and easily get bored.

I find myself alternating now in late night listening sessions between headphones and my 2.1 channel system.  My room is pretty good, and my system comes alive at around 60db with the sound on good recordings extending wall to wall and bass that has presence and can be felt.  The room has sound insulation so is fine up to 70db at night for other residents and neighbors unless I am playing Yello or Skrillex or something like that.  But sometimes I just want to listen to the intense details provided by my open back headphones and will forgo the bass punch for the retrieval and nuance of my cans.

So my answer is yeah, headphones are fit for serious music listening.

kn

I love headphones, as do most of the people on most of the forums I go to; Audiogon people don't seem to like them - the headphone thread sees almost no action -  but that matters to me not a jot. 

If you want to hear really good headphones, Bowers and Wilkins is not what you want. They're great at what they specialize in - speakers. Plenty of companies that do only headphones, like Audeze, Hifiman, ZMF, and others are much better.

Focal is one of the exceptions that make both great speakers and have a full line of great headphones. Headphone amplification is also very important in the chain.... I've got tube and SS headphone amps, and 3 sets of headphones. 

I enjoy both but prefer my big rig because headphones can’t produce the scale of a performance in a room like a good 2-channel system can.  But I chose my HeadFi setup to have the same sound characteristics that I value in my home system and enjoy it for what it is and when I don’t wanna fire up the big rig. Is it the same?  No.  Is it enjoyable?  Absolutely.  I would love to hear the RAAL SR1a phones at some point because they do seem special, but to me headphones will never replace what my home system provides.  It’s just physics.  

At 2 in the morning with family members still asleep for another 4 hours, it's headphones or nothing.  Quite satisfied with my K801's with mod'ed cables and WA6 tube amp.

For a while I went down the headphone rabbit hole.  Acquired a few higher end headphones of the time: Senn HD800, HiFiman HE-500, some ZMF, and a nice Audio Technica ATH-W1000 and other that I no longer own plus some nice amplifiers and DACs.  They were great at the time and sounded great.

Then I went hard into In Ear Monitors (IEM) since I was traveling a lot for business.

Now the big fancy headphones sit boxed up and unused while the IEM still get used at the gym, office, and for travel.

Now I spend more time listening to music with the family or doing home theater stuff.

Headphones, to me, are a last resort. I appreciate all that they offer but no thanks. 
 

Although I am glad the option exists. 

Interesting topic.  I only use headphones when traveling.  Focal Bathys to block out the airplane engine noise with my music.  I find it much enjoyable to listen to speakers at home.  

sure...love my earphones

I have a pair of Klipsch HP3 and a Quicksilver Headphone Amp.   I haven't really used them since I set up a bedroom system.  They are a good sounding combo but it's not the same as speakers .   

I bought the pair when I was in the middle of a divorce so they served me well when my gear was boxed up and in storage for 10 months.  

If the music playing doesn’t move air/make your whole physicality respond to it or doesn’t vibrate the abdominal cavity like a didgeridoo, it’s a no-go for the most part.

But, dudes who live in closet sized apartments with neighbors in all directions calling the cops on them...or live with a kill-joy queen don’t have much of a choice w.r.t headphones, i suppose. Even in such a case, some nearfield monitors could be a better option.

Get a divorce and move to a cheap 1 horse town, get a mobile home if you need to (keep the neighbors an acre away). Be free dawgs.

@oddiofyl - I had a Quicksilver headphone amp for awhile; excellent value hand-built tube headphone amp for under $1000. Klipsch is not known for their headphones, though, and for good reason; they're best at making speakers; headphones are a relative afterthought. I think you'd have had quite a different experience listening to Focal Utopias, for example, through that Quicksilver, as I did; they sound like they were made for each other. 

Yes,I know, but  the HP3 are actually pretty decent sounding...  I'm sure if I listened to phones more i would have bought Audize or Focal.   

I've honestly thought about selling them a few times but never did.   

I started out in headphones and then came over to 2ch, out of the usual necessity based on apartment living and lack of funds for high-end 2ch gear.

Really convinced myself it was just as good for years, and had lots of the most exotic headphones - some of which really are quite special. I still have some peripheral interest in that side of the hobby. My favorite is a Stax 009 driven by a DIY T2 amp (the "DIY" here belies its compexity and quality, and merely indicates an improved version of the original Stax SRM-T2), still today. Haven’t heard the Sennheiser HE1, but heard its predecessor Orpheus many times, and it’s not for me. Owned the Sony MDR-R10, also not for me because the bass sucks (Audio Technica L3000 "Leatherhead" was more of my thing) - though it has the best midrange and headstage of any headphone ever.

But, inveitably, my 2ch system (which sucked at first) eventually matched and then eclipsed the best headphone gear. And then EASILY eclipsed it. You’re right, there is a tactile quantity to speaker playback which bumps the immersion factor next level. And soundstage - even the best headphones can manage no more than a nice "headstage", maybe extending a bit outside (binaural recordings don’t count because these recordings are few and far between).

We’re told taking out room acoustics is a huge leg up for headphones - giving it an inherent advantage in accuracy and detail. But hear a good speaker setup - and it’s simply not true. The "room" for headphones is a small little pocket of air around your ear, and it’s NOT a great sounding "room". It also creates very significant resonances / aberrations that are bad for your hearing in the long run IMO. There have been attempts to change this equation (Sony MDR-R10 and AKG K1000, now RAAL) - but only with limited success IMO.

The real advantage to headphones is you can easily try dozens and find your "kind of sound" among them. Speakers are a HUGE pain to ship, swap out, and re-optimize for a room. Until you find "your sound" in speakers, it can be a bad time. I’m grateful I’m just set with Tannoys for life now lol. That’s all I want.

A good bang for buck with headphones is the classic Sennheiser HD580 / 600 / 650 driven by a very lush-sounding OTL tube amp that is generating LOTS of low-order harmonic distortion (OTL means NO output transformers - you are driving the headphones off the tube plates with just a coupling cap to protect from huge DC voltages). The high output impedance of OTL tubes will also boost bass on most moving-coil headphones, like those Senns. This can sort of "fill in" for the lack of tactile feedback, to a degree. Those old Sennheiser drivers are cheap crap plastic, but it’s surprising how good they can sound. I guess the "magic" is that they are very very light, especially with aluminum voice coils, so they have surprisingly good detail and articulation. And the soft dome avoids any nasty abrasive stuff in treble.

OTL tube amps were all the rage in 2000s era head-fi but I guess they fell out of fashion because:

1. Problems of finding a quality coupling cap with high enough capactity & voltage for this application. Black Gates used to sound good in this role despite being electrolytics - those caps are long gone
2. If the cap fails catastrophically it can explode your headphone coils and possibly damage your hearing
3. Limited output power in most designs
4. The high output impedance can limit its ability to drive lower impedance headphones

After I listen to headphone, my ears need a week to recover so I can listen to my system. I gave up using headphones long time ago.

I totally get where you're coming from. There’s something about the physical sensation of sound waves moving through the air and into your body that headphones just can’t replicate. That said, I think headphones can still be a serious listening tool—they offer an intimacy and level of detail that even great speakers sometimes miss, especially with open-back designs that create a more natural soundstage.

For me, it depends on the music and the setting. If I want to feel the music, nothing beats a well-placed speaker setup with tight, controlled bass. But if I’m focusing on intricate details-like the breath of a saxophonist or the subtle decay of a reverb tail-good headphones bring me closer to the music in a different way.

Thank you all for the great feedback. Love to hear from folks who have gone the journey and speak from a wealth of experience.

I watched the RAAL SR-1A video review @yyzsantabarbara linked. I liked the reviewer: he seemed passionate, unpretentious, and a far cry from those YouTube reviewers who seem to piggyback ADHD prescriptions from half a dozen doctors.

The reviewer talked about pairing the open-baffle, "earfield monitors" RAAL with a sub, and I was intrigued by that idea. Assuming the latency issue between ultrafast ribbons 1 inch from the ear and comparatively slow cone woofers six or eight feet away is addressed, that could bring together the best of both worlds, so to speak.

Has anyone tried supplementing headphones with a sub or subs?

Reading any headphones reviews at any price make me realize how lucky i am with My AKG K340 (100 bucks but modified)...

The soundfield is not in my head but i felt like in front of good speakers and the big organ bass note are deep and clear so much i can be moved physically (bone resonance)...

@devinplombier I have used a sub with the SR1a. At one time I had my KEF KC62 sub on a bar stool near my ear level. I was just trying the sub on the stool for kicks. I now have the sub on the floor.

Office System 2 | Virtual Listening Room

The KC62 sub is fast and can keep up with the fast SR1a. This sub is for music and not HT. It was good and definitely added to the low end of the phones since the SR1a is open. However, one of the reasons I use the SR1a is so as not to disturb others late at night and a sub booming away does not help keep it quiet.

I used to own the RAAL CA-1a and that was not an open baffle headphone and had a lot more bass and was a RAAL ribbon phone. However, I gave that to a family member since I do not miss the bass on the SR1a and the only purpose it served was that I could listen in my bed with the CA-1a and not the SR1a. The review I linked to explained how the SR1a moves around if you bend your head too much.

I am friends with Danny Mckinney who was the co-designer of the SR1a with Alex in Serbia. Danny recently told me that he is designing a bass module specifically for the SR1a. Something similar in execution as how I used my KC62 sub. Danny is about to release an open baffle 2-channel speaker, and it was an incredible sounding unit. The bass was the best I ever heard. He is going to use the same bass driver for the SR1a bass module.

If you are interested in getting the SR1a send me a DM and I can help advise the amp to drive it. The SR1a is a bright phone so care is needed. I have the best amp for it, the RAAL VM-1a. However, relatively soon there will be new competitors for that title.

Over the past 5 years, I did amp rolling for the SR1a. I loved this phone so much that I wanted to get the best sound from it. I must have spent $40k (but sold about $30k). It is a lot easy these days because of a new amp adapter called the RAAL TI-1b, when I amp rolled that device did not exist.

There is also the $7k - $10k RAAL Immanis that is considered by most the best RAAL phone. It is not open baffle like the SR1a, so I like the SR1a more. However, the Immanis is a tour de force and on my radar because I no longer have the CA-1a. The bass on the Immanis is supposed to be as good as it gets for headphones. I had this phone in my home for about a week and the bass was terrific.

I've always been interested, but I no longer have the disposable income that I once enjoyed, so therefore what I do spend is pretty much to improve the 2 ch system that I do have.  But still, I am interested.  

For me, headphone are for someone who cannot enjoy a full-range audio system at home, or doesn't have the cash, and that's okay, but only for them, not me.

I cannot imagine, even as good as they can be, why one would prefer headphones unless they want to listen in an apartment late at night. I did break down and buy noise cancelling earbuds for flights and listening when I am away from home.

...read recently that Grado came out with 2 new ones that wouldn’t necessarily cancel out your illegal substances ’audio enhancement products’ budget...

I prefer to give a listen to a set prior to plunking down the dollars, but other than Guitar Center or Best Buy there’s not many options ’round ’ere....

Have 4 on head or in ear....My aids, a pair that can double for cancellation duties, a Vmode Crossfade, and an old pair of Advents’.
Each has their own qualities that keep them about....*G*  Esp. the aids....

First pair was the Koss 4A’s....would still have them, but they literally fell apart.
And the newer ones’ just feel cheap and just don’t ’hear’ the same....even with my aids in the cups....

YYZ,

I find it interesting that you like the SR1A better than the Immanis.  Could you elaborate on the difference other than the bass which is kind of a given.  I use a REL Carbon Special to raise the SR1A's bass performance significantly with no downside other than cost.

SR1A with sub(s) is probably not the right main system setup for me. Since I have no SPL limitations at home, traditional speakers make the most sense I think. Still, I'm intrigued and I would love to audition it.

[...] open baffle 2-channel speaker, and it was an incredible sounding unit. The bass was the best I ever heard.

@yyzsantabarbara that's high praise, considering that woofers don't perform optimally in open baffle designs. if memory serves you've mentioned these speakers before, have you had a chance to audition them in your home?

@devinplombier I have not spoken with Danny McKinney the designer in about a month. My issue is that I am trying to go cold turkey on all purchases at least until December 2025. I am working 2 jobs to get the financial house in order. I have been selling audio gear the last few weeks, including today with the Sanders Magtech amp.

I will give Danny a call tomorrow and ask how the speaker is progressing. It should be ready soon and he already has a few sales queued just on his stellar reputation. I may be one of the few that has actually heard the prototype.

Once I am clear on my finances I will get the open baffle. Wife is already OK with having 2 speakers in the Livingroom.  Danny actually wants to try it in my Livingroom where my Yamaha NS5000 resides. The NS5000 sounds great in the space with the Schitt Yggi+ OG DAC, and he thinks his speaker will be even better. He has heard the NS5000 at my place and he loved it.

I heard the prototype with my Schitt Yggi+ OG DAC at his home (not a good audio space) and it was great. The Yggi+ OG is something special with bass.

I find it interesting that you like the SR1A better than the Immanis. Could you elaborate on the difference other than the bass which is kind of a given. I use a REL Carbon Special to raise the SR1A’s bass performance significantly with no downside other than cost.

@rdoc I loved the Immanis with both a Schitt stack and the VM-1a. However, the Immanis is a headphone and the SR1a is not. The Immanis has a massive stage and hit incredibly hard, without being fatiguing. The details maybe even better than the SR1a. All factors that should make me like the Immanis more. However, the open baffle design of the SR1a wins out for me. The Immanis is burden by being a headphone.

I listen to the SR1a late at night when my kid is sleeping. The Immanis is louder than the SR1a. Sometimes I am working until 2:30AM and the Immanis coud be too loud. My Dad was visiting when the Immanis | Magna | CA-1a were in the house for demo. I was a little surprised how loud it was when he was listening.

I also found that the VM-1a amp is a bit too powerful for the Immanis. It is extremely good, but it could be dialed back a little bit to be perfect with the Immanis. Though I went back to the stock tubes on the VM-1a. There is a mellower tube that Danny recommended to me and that would likely have made the VM-1a and Immanis sing. I did not have the tube anymore to test the Immanis with.

The Schitt stack I used, Mjolnir v3 preamp | Aegir v1 amp | Schitt Yggi+ LIM DAC was a bit more suitable for the type of late night listening I do. A dialed back mellower sound. Though I should say I also listen to heavy metal too late at night, usually on the Vm-1a.

The SR1a is best with the VM-1a. Nothing I tried can touch the VM-1a for the SR1a (not comparing with the Immanis). Listening to this right now (David Lynch: A Tribute on ROON).

@musicaddict - I've got a 5-figure 2-channel system and am not short on funds, and I also have about $15K worth of headphone gear which I love just as much.

Real quality headphones through quality headphone amps and DACs bear no resemblance to 'noise-canceling' bluetooth headphones you'd wear on a plane.

That's fine if you don't want to listen to headphones, but many people do, and not for the reasons you cite. 

@devinplombier I spoke with my friend Danny today about his progress on the open baffle speaker. They have got the CNC stuff sorted out now and are bout 90 days from going to the public. I was invited to his shop or home to hear the final product in 30 or 60 days. He is in Ventura, CA and close by. I think I will take my Schitt Yggi+ OG DAC down and compare it with the Meitner M3 DAC that he has been doing CanJam shows with.

He is going to be updating his web site during this timeframe. I will post a link when the site is updated.

He also told me that a famous late night TV host's sound guy was over a few days ago and listened for hours (with great ears) He had the same reaction as me to the crossover less open baffle speaker.

There was also something mentioned that was very exciting for me that would marry the open baffle speaker with my SR1a earphones (or ANY headphone). 

HeadFi is a valid thriving hobby that many enjoy, but it seems most 2-channel audiophiles don’t have both.  This hobby is costly enough without adding another rabbit hole and 2 channel usually sounds better.  However, I enjoy both as I like variety- a tube desktop, a SS DAP that can double as a SS desktop, and various planar magnetic, electrostatic, dynamic headphones.  Maybe someday I’ll purchase a quality CIEM, but my 2channel is of higher priority to optimize.