I'd say they already are.
Will China become the poor man’s dealer for high end audio?
With the insane prices now being asked for audio equipment from manufacturers around the globe is china going to fill in the gap between the haves and have-nots.? We are already seeing some signs of this with manufacturers like Jays Audio and Denafrips offering product-performance prices below global market value. The only thing I see holding them back is they will always be one leg behind the rest of the world since they copy most of the technology they use and world wide acceptance.
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I will only correct this claim by saying that China was in advance on all technological level for millenias... They lost their advance only for few centuries After the 16 th century... They invented everything BEFORE european take off after the 16 century... Dont believe me read a book : Joseph Needham Science and civilization in China...A mammoth series of books , but like me you can read a one book shortened version.. Think about almost anything, the chinese created them before... There is even a map describing all technologies by date in Europe compared to China.. It is easy to verify...Among many reasons there is the population densities which was higher in China than in Europa...Then when you had more "engineers" you create more... Simple... They are many others factors for sure.. many books were written on this... Then reducing ALL chinese engineers to mimicking non creative engineers is a bit far fetched...
An interesting question will be why the theoretical scientific method explicitly develop by Galileo was born in Italia and why the industrial boom who came after did not existed in China, is related to questions about religion and geography among many other deep factors and also related to the triple roots; semitic, greek and roman birthing of Europe and the continuous nourishing technological line going from China to Europe before and after Islam... In few words : «Why did modern science stop developing in China after the 16th century? Needham believed this was due to China’s sociopolitical system which was not affected by Chinese inventions.» For example the huge fleet of boats way more big than any european fleet, able to conquer the world in a way, was dismanteld for socio-poilitical self isolation reasons ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_Civilisation_in_China
Second with the coming economical crisis , the price of audio will change a lot... i cannot predict how.. 😊
«Some news are way too old and deep to be in newspapers» Anonymus journalist 😁
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OP… “With the insane prices now being asked for audio equipment from manufacturers around the globe”. I am puzzled at the question. I don’t think insane prices (so, say high ticket, Boulder, and dCS… etc) are even remotely being competed in products from China. The performance of these products far exceeds anything from China. Not even mid tier priced audiophile gear… say Audio Research, Conrad Johnson. Now yes, in the modest price stuff where Schiit operates.. yes they are competing there… but then there is Schiit. So, yes in the very low end China is very competitive. I have a Prima Luna integrated amp that is a very good value for the money. |
My chineese Hidizs dac low cost is insanely good... For his price...There is better for sure, but i cannot fault it really... And there is a diminishing return zone which is subjectivily and objectivily characterized zone...My only upgrade , a real upgrade from it will cost me 40 times his price... Not a marginal improvement with few thousand bucks but a REAL upgrade...The real upgrade will be American made by the way...
On the other hand my old german engineering school the hybrid AKG K 340 beat most chinese Hifiman headphones probably at any price save one perhaps or two of the costlier one i dont know ...And i am not interested to buy one even if i could... My hifiman HE 400 sound by far as complete junk, less good than my Akg k701 which i dislike too and anyway was made as junk compared to the K340 as were my 9 others headphone anyway ... ( the chinese He 400 break on my head from his own bad design i did not weep so bad it was in spite of positive reviewers) Yes i must say i dont like headphones in general .. Save my actual one... There is no general truth without many exceptions ... Each product has his own engineeering history and context... But claiming that there is not much audiophiles with money in China NOW with no good high end products in China NOW is not realistic... Just think about how many good engineers there is and how many good pianists for the population size ? Way more than in America now... Canada included... "By some estimates, the country has as many as 40 million piano students, compared with six million in the United States. " It is the same for engineers numbers.. Who knows all audiophile top products from China from the last 10 years ? Just my big rock of salt... |
Just for the record, high end audio has always consisted of high priced items. Also, China’s place in this world is changing. Labor cost in China have soared. The business environment has soured. It is difficult to predict the future, but the high end electronic value manufacturing countries just might be distributed throughout a number of fast developing countries. Also, the ability to design and not just copy can be found in China as well as many other countries with lower manufacturing costs. Lastly, there is no way that people in our community can be depicted as “have-nots”. I managed to buy used and build my own speakers at a time that I didn’t have the finances to buy a car. I appreciated my system then much as I appreciate my current system now. How can you be a “have-not” if you appreciate what you have?
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I think maybe you meant to say “manufacturer” rather than “dealer,” no? This is not new and many manufacturers have been designing equipment in the US and Europe for decades and having them manufactured in China. Actually, the speakers I bought over 20 years ago were designed here and built there, and it’s an attractive business model as long as quality control is good at the factory (think Apple products). In the mid-to-longer term China’s labor rates will continue to rise and other countries like Vietnam, Malaysia, etc. will become relatively more attractive and cost-effective options similarly to how China attracted manufacturing business in the past, and businesses will begin to migrate there instead. Frankly I’m pretty amazed by companies like Schiit, Rogue and some others who can play in the budget/midFi categories and still manufacture here in the US what with our significantly higher wages, health benefits, and overall costs of doing business — truly impressive. |
No, bit of a troll question. Already there Africa is the next labor market to be exploited. Already has been by some companies. Many of them Chinese companies. Vietnam and Malaysia, China, India have all caught up to each other.
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Some here need research tools.. 😉
https://techtracker.aspi.org.au/
«The United States and other western countries are losing the race with China to develop advanced technologies and retain talent, with Beijing potentially establishing a monopoly in some areas, a new report has said. China leads in 37 of 44 technologies tracked in a year-long project by thinktank the Australian Strategic Policy Institute. The fields include electric batteries, hypersonics and advanced radio-frequency communications such as 5G and 6G.«
After reading that i think that Swiss Dartzeel amp technology will not pose a great treat to audiophile chinese growing market.. 😊
Read Lao Tse, tao te ching book , to train your chineese understanding about intelligence ... marvellous book... I recommend the only book which rival any other existing book in depth , save number theory books, the Yi-King...And no, it is not a mere divination book... 😁
Read what Leibnitz and some jesuits as Ricci in China thought about this book ... By the way Leibnitz devised binary calculus after seeing the Yi-King (or yi ching) , which is binary symbolism ... https://www.jstor.org/stable/3219083 https://www.inverse.com/article/46593-gottfried-wilhelm-leibniz-i-ching-binary-system
«Chinese spies are now everywhere along the railroad tracks »-- Groucho Marx🤓 |
I just hope they stay out of biology labs for awhile
I agree. Especially those funded by the United States of America.
"Once a well-regarded centre for research, the Wuhan Institute of Virology is said to have received more than $1.4million (£0.8million) in federal grants and US National Institutes of Health subgrants since 2014, although no new funds have been given since July 2020."
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The lab was designed by French technology State sponsored..
And the virus come from a "random" accident... Perhaps... 😊 And Bill Gates multiply his money by "randomness" luck... I am not sure about this ... Etc... The origin of life too is supposed to be only pure "randomness" for lazy brain materialist thinker ...😉 But at the end something control even randomness and assign limits to it...It is mathematical ... i dont believe in pure abstract empty order nor in absolute randomness, i believe in orchestrated rythms... Some call it "complotism" ... Some other call it "music" ... I call it number theory and politic of power... By the way, the qualitative aspects of these orchestrated rythms are the BASIS of the Yi ching book , Leibnitz so admired , creating the binary calculus and searching for his characteristica universalis... Leibnitz too never believe in absolute randomness... I am not alone... 😊
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Big +1 @lalitk I neglected to think of Eastern European nations. There is some great stuff coming out of Poland, Estonia, Hungary, etc. I’ve bought some excellent silver cables out of Latvia (LavriCables) that are outstanding for a fraction of the price of silver cables from more established places and that don’t even sound like “traditional” silver cables — time to reset your expectations here people! I come from finance, and money/capital is like water — it flows to the place of least resistance, and in money’s case where it also can earn the highest return. That’s just what it does, and there’s no stopping it. Good catch lalitk! |
No I have not heard AM. It is always hard to address these outlandish claims, because I would have to be a professional reviewer… and with an enormous amount of time on my hands. But I do have fifty years of experience in pursuing high end audio. As I moved along the path I developed more skills in listening and pealed the onion of sonic understanding so to speak. Additionally, along the way I have tried main stream products and lots of giant killers and budget solutions that were revolutionary. The funny thing is, after hundreds of auditions and with all the pieces I have ever heard, and owned, none of these has ever been true. Most recently, just to test the big claim that fake Nordost Odin 2 were nearly as good as the real thing. I bought couple pair. No surprise, they were not. There are a number of reasons that these giant killers are not, is simply because many of the great audio companies of the west have been at it for decades… improving all aspects through generation after generation, using more carefully chosen materials, parts, geometries etc. It isn’t as simple as a cleaver design and cheap labor. So maybe there is some startling discovery at AM that allows them to produce a component for $2.5K vs $20K component from ARC. If so, it is going to be flashed across the front pages of The Absolute Sound and Stereophile very soon. But for know I have my doubts. |
It is incredible that people will argue against simple evidence based on prejudices... And how do you compared so much companies from China and Us or any other countries ? i put a link above... The ANSWER is there... And china technological advances begin to eclipse US in many fields ... Then seriously claiming that simple amplifiers or dac technology is nowhere in China equal to US or Swiss or Germany or Poland, is preposterous... How can adults be so twisted in simple facts and simple reasoning ? Chauvinism ?
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"No I have not heard AM.". I am extremely surprised as I would expect anyone interested in high quality equipment and with "50 years of experience" to be familiar with Fang from Stereo Knight, even though not a lot are sold in the US. Fang went on to form his own company called AM. US audiophiles are very insular. Pros. 1) They look incredible and the build is up there with the best Cons. Now, I am sure you could have done your own research, oh and they are much more than "$2.5K".
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My "English" amp was made in China. My "American" speakers were made in China. My "American" digital cable was made in China as were my "American" speaker cables. I don't consider myself a "Have not". Maybe a "Don't have as much" or a "Have some". Whether its trade policy, changes in a country's workforce needs, pursuit of higher profits/lower taxes, manufacturing luxury products in a developed country will be more expensive. |
Here is a link to Borthwicks company for those not willing to do their own research: |
I dont think australia is really a good friend of the CCP...Guess what their analysis show : «The United States and other western countries are losing the race with China to develop advanced technologies and retain talent, with Beijing potentially establishing a monopoly in some areas, a new report has said. China leads in 37 of 44 technologies tracked in a year-long project by thinktank the Australian Strategic Policy Institute. The fields include electric batteries, hypersonics and advanced radio-frequency communications such as 5G and 6G.« and you can verify and search all areas HERE : https://techtracker.aspi.org.au/
And i dont think that anybody could judge a technological level by using political opinion... Simple example : Russia aerospace technology superiority in 1957... Another example : German superiority in missile and jet plane in 1945... Any history books is full of examples... Baghdad was the most advanced city in the world at some point in history... Technology levels ansd scientific levels are not politically related AS THE MAIN FACTOR to democratic, ploutocratic, imperial and any other political regimen...Even theocratic regime can produce high level of science : ancient Egypt or Ancient Peru... And statistically how can you negate that the enormous chinese population as the indian population over one billion each will not give us a greater numbers of geniuses ? It is a Gauss-Bell curve distribution... anybody can compute it in five minutes... Then if the number of geniuses is five times higher because the population is five times more guess how many generation we must wait before a technological boom , if the population is able to eat well for sure ? Answer : one generation of thirty years and the fruits will come... We see it now if this australian study is to be read... There is other studies ... But one is enough...
By the way, where is North america on this map : https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-iq-by-country
but in North America we can count on the capital intelligence index ," The Intelligence Capital Index (ICI) is a way to gauge the ability of countries to capitalise on the knowledge economy by assessing their environments for education, creativity and talent attraction. " It is the reason why we compete with China and India for now... 😊
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Believe me, we must LEARN how to read and most people, even with a university diploma dont know how to read critically... Then saying what you just said with sarcasm illustrate my point ... Most people are unable to read critically confronting what is wrttten with a larger context... The context implicate history and a larger cultural perspective and also philosophy or other related or not so related fields most of the times and this about any question in ANY FIELD ... Why? Because we must not only analyse a text critically but to do so read it in a historical, cultural and objective LARGER context... i dont think that this is well taught anymore in most college in North america .. People are taught to be specialists who know everything about nothing... Passive consumers and passive slaves workers... We see it in the last three years... I will stop here.. I just discussed for ONE WEEK here with an engineer in audio who was unable to figure out the link between hearing theory and electrical measures.. He confused his toys with science.. and i am by no way a specialist in audio myself , i only learned how to read... Then i know how and when to believe what i read... I am not always right but i CAN VERIFY...
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😊 Incredible arrogance... Your observation remind me of the way the British Empire look at the Indian savages in 1914... At the exact date when Littlewood and Hardy discovered the greatest genius in mathematic since Gauss, Newton and Archimedes.. Srinivasa Ramanujan who slept on palm and was self taught..... how did you say :
Have you studied China history in college ? If so you must know that when the european savages were hunting China invented high productive agricultural methods and way more...
For sure America exist since 3 centuries and are desintegrating right now and china for 3 millenia of continuity... Guess why ? it is called traditional cultural transmission... |
😊 Sometimes we must establish simple truths.. Do not confuse reality awakening with quarrel... Some seems to think that building an amplifier of the highest quality is impossible for Asian savage... It is comical... Thats all... And pathetic... And imagine i was not here myself... Who will had restablish truth over chauvinism ? It seems that i am alone ... I read many poster claiming non sense... not much saying simple facts with REFERENCES as i did... If someone dont say other non sense i will mute myself ... And you are right... Good gear is created all over the world... China included...
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@laoman Like @ghdprentice I’ve been an audiophile for a loooong time and follow the industry pretty closely and likewise have never heard of Fang, Stereo Knight, or AM. Further, this seems like marketing spam. Last, calling US audiophiles “very insular” is insulting, condescending, and just flat-out wrong. Period, full stop. Take your completely unfounded comments and just go away. Please. |
@soix How is my comment "insulting, condescending, and just flat-out wrong." when you have just proved it by not knowing who one of the most important Chinese hi fi engineers is? For all I know maybe you have never heard of Bruno Putzey, Andreas Koch or Michael Borressen either?
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