Will China become the poor man’s dealer for high end audio?

Canada became a dictatorship too... Guess why and how ?..

There is no reason rational or historical to judge creativty of countries from political standpoint...

Free countries are better for creativity yes, but there is varieties and level of freedom and varieties and levels of dictatorship...

Pick your flavor .... Suit your tastes and dreams..

Three of my dac are chinese, one is french... All are good and useful ...

My Akg K340 is german design ....

My 2 Sansui amplifier are from Japan...

My microzotl2 is American...

All are stupendous technology ...

I am an Earth  free spirit/soul  forcefully interned in Canada dictatorship not long ago by birth ... 😊😁 Conditioned by medias sold to the power and with no illusion on government right now...Guess why ?

 

 

There is one prejudice that say : "Chineses are not innovative"...

There is another prejudice that say : "Americans are ignorant"...

Then at least in this thread the two prejudices will be proven wrong...

Some american know about Needham work..

And some american own  already very  well designed high-end chinese products..

Reestablishing facts is not "virtue signaling"...

 

 

I answered to some poster expressing prejudice ...

I dont know where i backtrack...China is not CCP...

 

I say the same thing from the beginning...

 

But sometimes i posted a bit too much... You are right...about that point..😊

My posts were informative at least...

And i answered clearly about the question asked..

And sorry anecdotes are not facts...

I posted an australian study about high tech status in China.. This is better than anecdotes or face to face few people with their opinions..

Now compare my posts to this :

They were very good at memorizing and taking tests. Applying book learning to practical situations was a weakness. In laboratory work, most Chinese students fell to just average. Some did not have the common sense to keep their fingers out of live electrical circuits.

Can Chinese companies compete in high end HiFi gear. Yes, but not with innovation.

I accept your critic about my numerous posts...

But posts as your created my reaxction...

Then i can apologize because you are not wrong completely about my reaction...

But your post is a caricatural PREJUDICE... Not expression of facts...

Then buy a mirror and look at your own prejudice...

Myself I apologize for my strong reaction not for my content...

 

Then if i read your own post expressing gross prejudice, i prefer to be classified in the " intellectual superiority" pretenses side instead of on your side... Sorry to say so...

And remembering long chinese creativity in history is not virtue signaling...It is simple fact we cannot forgot BEFORE judging chinese as not innovative as you SPECIFICALLY wrote..

I posted too much... You are right on that ... Thats all...

At least some of the people reading my post will learn something... Intellectual superiority or not ... 😊

By the way because you did not have any real arguments you attacked me now personally  in my posts...

Take your own part of this tempest in a cup of water... Admit that you expressed only prejudice... Instead of attacking me... I answered your post by facts...

 

 

 

 

«Such critiques strike a familiar chord with Jonathan Halpern, who has dealt in audiophile gear for 25 years, the last 17 with his own distribution company, Tone Imports. Just a few decades ago, he recalls, Japanese audio equipment was derided as shoddy and derivative, with legitimate criticism tainted by racially charged language. But, said Mr. Halpern, over time Japanese brands evolved from derivative to innovative, and are now widely considered to produce some of the world’s best high-end audio equipment. Many of these Chinese companies could be following a similar course, he says.»

https://archive.fo/ohcNP

Perhaps he knows better than some here... 😊

It seems not only history , and my referenced Australian study in my above post on china high tech , proved chinese creativity , but in audio too , the story has already begun..

 

 

 

 

https://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/jungson_ja99_e.html

https://grantfidelity.com/new/index.php/2020/06/09/who-is-analog-sound-by-line-magnetic/

https://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/audiospace5/1.html

https://positive-feedback.com/Issue24/dussun.htm

https://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_9_2/consonance-reference-11-preamp-6-2002.html

Do you want more ?

 

«Ignorance is a full time job too »--Groucho Marx 🤓

Is it important to the CCP to have a competitive Hi End Audio industry? By competitive, that means more than a couple companies allowed to exist simply for CCP PR purposes.

 

The CCP is busy with piloting long term geopolitics and silk road project...

It dont gives a damn about Audio...If you are a model silent consumers , you can buy what you want ...

My posts were there against the idiotic claims and prejudices expressed here against chinese culture... The CCP is NOT chinese culture...The nazi nor the soviet were german and russian culture...

Is there audio High -END company innovative in China ?

Probably some few in their beginnings...

It takes how many years for a company to be born , amass enough capitals to invest in research ?

10 to 20 years...

AKG or Sansui dont grew wings and enough funds to create their amplifiers and top Headphones in few years...

 

The real opening to a market economy begun after Deng xiao Ping ...In 1994 ...

The real "bourgeois" class out of poverty able to buy high-end audio did not exist before and begin to grow 20 years ago...

Then innovation in high-end audio will come to light in the next decade, beginning now...

It is simple to see that without bashing one billion people creativity ...China was in mass hungers period before 1990... China comes out of that completely after 2000...

Audio high-end need enough CONSUMERS with enough money... This exist only for the last decade...

High-end audio begin now in China...And their high-end first products are sold in an internal small market in Shangai or other big cities in all probabilities ...

They will not beat South Korea and Japan high-end next week...

Then apart from the narrow mind prejudices against any country creativity directed against china here i killed with my speficic references, the question of the OP is answered by some posts who said the same as me : audio high end business need a critical mass of consumers, enough demand , and an history that takes 10 to 20 years to amass enough research fund to INNOVATE...

Wait few years and see...

 

By the way a company as Hidizs punch over the ratio S.Q./price minimal qualities...

They need time to innovate... It is born few years ago and already well known..

«Hidizs products have garnered several prestigious professional certifications, including Japan Hi-Res Audio, Hi-Res Audio wireless, Sony LDAC, and MQA. Additionally, our dedication to excellence has been recognized by winning the VGP Golden Prize for three consecutive years (2019, 2020, 2021). Notably, Hidizs's renowned classics, the AP80 & AP80 Pro, secured a remarkable 7th place at the Yearly Best Earphones Sales Award in Japan from 2018 to 2021.»

 

Then what do you want ?

I already own this dap/dac/portable/battery/bank/equalizer which is the smallest in size for under 200 bucks...

What they will do in 10 years ?

 

 

After all that i have said about chinese people creativity, i want to be clear now , the CCP is not china , but an abominable dictatorship of the worst kind imposed upon china... There is no choice nor any freedom in China...  I hope to be clear...

If China and Korea lack creativity and innovation , which are only American qualities for some , what about India ?

Do you think they lack the knowledge to design Hi-FI if they want and need to in the future ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS4AXLbVBqQ

 

It seems India hi-fi will come soon the next decade to rival perhaps anything here, why not ?

https://www.hifitoday.com/thiyaga-hybrid-integrated-amplifier-ms-610-loudspeakers-thallam-audio-cables/

«The Thiyaga Hybrid Integrated amplifier consists of a preamplifier section designed around a pair of 6n2p vacuum tubes driving a solid state power amplifier section that puts out 180 watts at 8ohms with a THD specification of 0.02% at 1KHz. »

 

Now a small lesson in history...

Korea has been in interaction with China for millenias and with Japan too...

Diplomatically and with wars periods in succession...

Confucean culture and not only Buddhism pervade Korean history...

If the chinese could not innovate themselves , and if the chinese were those who taught Korea about philosophy and technology all along his history , how can Koreans can produce the greatest breakthrough in SCIENCE and APPLIED technology for the decades to come just NOW ?

If koreans can be creative and innovate , chinese are able too... Simple deduction direct from history...

It is a bit more important than a new refined amplifier by the way ...

For those who know how to read this is my news from five days ago :

https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.12008

We must wait for the confirmation of these experiments...

But if it is proven , this is the greatest revolution to come, thanks to Koreans...

This is ONLY an example...

People who criticize China as being unable to innovate are ignorant of history so much , they dont even know the lineage of relation between Korea and China through millenias... Do you think this psychical bond is erased by 70 years of capitalism and American influence in South Korea ?

The same ignorance expressing the opinion that  China is unable to innovate had forgot that Taiwan is a CHINESE  culture and country...If not politically right now by all other links..

Read that :

https://www.bbc.com/storyworks/future/taiwan-the-future-of-smart-tech/taiwan-and-the-cutting-edge-of-innovation

 

 

«The First Room-Temperature Ambient-Pressure Superconductor

For the first time in the world, we succeeded in synthesizing the room-temperature superconductor (Tc≥400 K, 127∘C) working at ambient pressure with a modified lead-apatite (LK-99) structure. The superconductivity of LK-99 is proved with the Critical temperature (Tc), Zero-resistivity, Critical current (Ic), Critical magnetic field (Hc), and the Meissner effect. The superconductivity of LK-99 originates from minute structural distortion by a slight volume shrinkage (0.48 %), not by external factors such as temperature and pressure. The shrinkage is caused by Cu2+ substitution of Pb2+(2) ions in the insulating network of Pb(2)-phosphate and it generates the stress. It concurrently transfers to Pb(1) of the cylindrical column resulting in distortion of the cylindrical column interface, which creates superconducting quantum wells (SQWs) in the interface. The heat capacity results indicated that the new model is suitable for explaining the superconductivity of LK-99. The unique structure of LK-99 that allows the minute distorted structure to be maintained in the interfaces is the most important factor that LK-99 maintains and exhibits superconductivity at room temperatures and ambient pressure.

 

 

 

Anecdotes has a meaning generally when a long history confirm them...

Free speech has a long history for example here in America, then if someone claims that American are all for censorship and dare not to think their mind and speak it  because someone experienced the opposite  anecdotally, this anecdote cannot erase the historical fact of the principle of free speech  and infirm it... Especially when others anecdote confirm the historical facts...

History teach us how to think.... It is the reason why without a sense of history , so general it may be it is IMPOSSIBLE to think clearly...

How do you relate meanings across fields without history in the short and longer term ?

 

Thanks for your post which is corroborated by history...

I can also make similar assertions. I worked with a lot of technical folks in Silicon Valley for a decade. A lot of these folks were FOB from China (some went back to China to form business and innovate). In my experience the Chinese were some of the most brilliant and creative minds I worked with. I guess based on my experience I can conclude that all billion Chinese are incredibly talented and innovative.

High end audio is a specialized niche and i dont know about it in China...

My point Is about your caricature:

In laboratory work, most Chinese students fell to just average.  Some did not have the common sense to keep their fingers out of live electrical circuits.

I stated FACT from first hand college experience and discussion with multiple people doing business in China. I will take first hand experience from credible people over studies any day.

I will trust more a study done by a serious group in Australia, which is not friend of China AT ALL ,  about chinese leadership in many high tech fieldsover gossip presented as facts..

You speak as someone who could say with the same kind of prejudices that all americans are without tact nor education and  despise  anything  which is non american ... Saying that about ALL americans would be a gross caricature , even if someone add that he learned this in college discussion and with serious people doinf business in America ...Saying that china is unable to became creative even in high end audio is a CARICATURE, not a fact..

Anyway your opinion are yours...me i only know history and studies about China as the australian one...

 There is CREATIVITY in all countries where people can eat and be educated... This is FACT...

I forgot to say that i apologize for my  reaction to your first post...

I welcome you...

And i hope you will give us arguments about your opinions in audio or about what you thought about...

Even if we see things in different perspective we can learn from others ...

I sincerely welcome you and i apologize giving my opinion too...

I am perhaps funny...

But being offended manifest itself by a REACTION and and APPEAL  against someone post or argument or person...

Instead of being offended give argument as i did when i am not ok with a post...As i did in this thread where some spoke their prejudices ...

I dislike censorship so much, i dont think that giving an opinion about anything in an audio thread can be BANNED...

i like friendship... This means discussion even with people with we are in complete opposition... Discussion with  RATIONAL arguments  are interesting... Offended people are not helpful nor interesting... Be offended but give a counter argument and dont ask for censorship of any kind... I dont want to live in China CCP at all...

 

Nowadays instead of arguments and thinking , people get offended...They ask for censorship...

Someone go in and his first post is to accuse someone of offensing him..

The last three years demonstrated a complete negation of democracy and medecine freedom with a scandal which manifest now slowly worldwide... In spite of a total banishment of information and discussion in all official medias...

And some are offended WITHOUT giving any argument as if their opinion was absolute truth, as if in others opinion there can be not even an ounce of truth...

 

test

It is refreshing to read a post not born from a prejudice...

Why poor man's. Why not everyman's. They've done so with much else.

Japan come from rubble to superpower by a combination of copying and innovation. Same with South Korea. Now China is doing it. While we sit on our laurels.

Exactly what i think... 😊

Almost comical ...

You judged more than one billion people by anecdotes and ridiculous affirmation..

I posted a serious AUSTRALIAN  studies demonstrating innovation..

I dont post propaganda or prejudices...

 

 Incredible... 😊

Applying book learning to practical situations was a weakness.  In laboratory work, most Chinese students fell to just average.  Some did not have the common sense to keep their fingers out of live electrical circuits.

Can Chinese companies compete in high end HiFi gear.  Yes, but not with innovation.

 

I agree with this...

Serjio post is right...

"I was bitten by Mahgister" - now I want to tell the truths

Soix advice is right too... Better to keep this in the audio field... History is not taught and ignorance is appauling...

Let’s just stick to audio and do that. To me, chapai22 crossed the line, which is why I responded. I have absolutely no idea what you’re saying or what you mean and honestly I don’t care. I’d just like this to get back to audio pure and simple, which is what this site is all about.

But i SPOKE CLEARLY about audio simple thing against the expressed prejudices from some people expressing wrong and false statements by ignorance... No need to understand Shakespeare to be able to read about Needham 7 volumes and an austrailian study demonstrating chinese engineering creative and abilities which anyway existed in the past , save for those ignorant of history...

My Hidizs Ap 80 pro, is not high end, but a piece of very good design which punch high for his price...It is chineese... It is not less bad than american products in the same window of price at all... Any children able to read english can understand my point..

 

One thing to remember, made in China but designed by companies with solid histories and engineering capital is far different than turn-key China made products.

And as i also said, my German 1978 AKG K340 headphone is a top product even today and no pricier Hifiman chinese headphone beat it save perhaps the two more costlier models and even this i dont believe it...

Is it hard to understand ?

But saying that chinese with 40 million pianists will stay unable to be creative as they were for 2 millenias is only an ignorant prejudice..

First;

I never asked moderators to erase someone post...

Even the post of someone three years ago who accused me in front of all people of killing people by my opinions ...

 

Second :

I like TRUTH... I answered  WITH arguments to those who love their common place stupid prejudices saying non sense... China is not the same as the CCP no more than Russia is the soviet, and US is not Biden puppet regime nor the Trump puppet one with the oligarchs behind the two of  them ...

People and their culture is one thing , politic is another...I respect and admire ALL cultures.. Like i respect and admire all animals... i despise actual politic schemes in the world...

Few  said erroneously here that China never created engineering of high level but STOLE everything... it is false...China did great innovations in the past and even now... I cited an AUSTRALIAN STUDIES about that and give a search engine dedicated to this matter... You know HOW TO READ ?

I answered with history facts BECAUSE THIS IS false... In any country there exist commercial spying and this is a problem with the CCP for sure and everybody know that ... But we were talking about china creativity in the past and now in audio and in others matter here not about the CCP...

Only propagandists or ignorants can call these historical facts which are in every books propaganda...

I am fed up with the censorship which you seems to think is a great thing...Buy a mirror and look at you...

third:

I am not a sheep in any country political boat in my country or in yours ... If you are one sheep speaking to all others sheeps , let us who are able to think by themselves BE...

Four:

the only propagandist here is YOU... The first sign identifying a propagandist is his unability to discuss FACTS and his appeal to censorship of FACTS ...

Five:

Educate yourself in geopolitic...

Six:

Patriotism is not ideological fanatism and chauvinism...

Seven :

Point me wrong about china historical facts or go in your hole, it seems you like to be offended, and let the moderators think by themselves they are adults, nor children nor fanatics...

Eight :

Saying that chinese were creative in their history , and are perhaps NOW able to create decent audio system is not "deep-state China propaganda" it is elementary verifiable simple facts ...

Nine:

I dont like to be bullied...I respect everyone who respect everyone else here...

ten :

I am an adult and i dont need to adress the moderator .... SPEAK TO ME DIRECTLY...

 

 

this is absolutely absurd and I’d ask the moderators to remove this utter BS deep-state China propaganda that has absolutely no place here.

thanks i like this sentence...

It is a better one than my dog  sentence.. 😊

 

We summarize: If the patient really wants to live, doctors are powerless!

I will go with your advice...😊

 

 

 

hey isn't the new brad mehldau release (solo playing the beatles' favorites) just wonderful? 

queue it up, close eyes (that means no typing, no reading), enjoy!!! 

 

first i am perhaps a dreamer but at least i dont use generalities who are going nowhere

I didn’t say the Chinese weren’t capable - I said it probably wouldn’t happen anytime soon... And it’s better for the music lover to ignore their products...

My low cost Hidizs dac is for the ratio price/S.Q. and functionalities very good... Not junk...

2000 years ago engineering? - yes, but then it consisted in the production of paper and gunpowder (the wheel was most likely stolen somewhere) ...))) - this has little to do with audio in the 21st century.

And here you only demonstrated ignorance of history..

Do you think the 7 volumes of Needham works are about the paper, powder and the "wheel an idea stolen somewhere " as you claim to disparage Chinese history with a common place prejudice .. ?

Your bad faith about China is so dense... I will not go on with discussing more...

The prose of life is that very often sources and teachers were erroneous, and sometimes even evil manipulators ... (a vivid example of such a discipline as historical science ...

And now to gain a point in a discussion all Needham works and others historians after him are  mere falsifications  and ideology ?

And i must take your "knowledge" for gold... 😊

Ok enjoy your "lucidity" alone ...

I will stay a dreamer reading books...

 

«Unlike dog man piss on the spot where they plan to never going back, after all we must piss somewhere » -- Groucho Marx 🤓

 

Sorry if you misunderstood me...

I am not a LAWYER for china nor a spy... China dont need me.. I have read Joseph Needham when i was young... Then i know that for more than 2 millenias the apex of engineering was in China...

I ONLY tried counterbalance those who suggest that chinese are unable to create engineering and are only able to steal others designs by historical FACTS...

Now with 40 million pianists i doubt that there is no craftmanship at all at the audiophile level because some here decided so and ignored these small audiophile craftmanship ... There is a ton of garbage from China because it was the manufacturing dump of the world... But i dont like IDEOLOGIC CHAUVINISM ... I used history...

I can understand and even approve many or most of your points in your last posts... Try to understand mine...I dont like bashing cultures, being it american, canadian , chinese, russian or muslim one...

Baghad was once the most advanced civilization in the world by far... We must respect that... Thats my point...

 

Three of the greatest admirals who ever lived for example , one was chinese and toured the world with a fleet so big and so big boat it was never seen like that before and long after but china was not interested to invade the world; the other admiral was Korean and he never loose combat against Japan in thirty years in all cases with inferiority in numbers ...During the second world war, some officers proposed a toast to Togo as the greatest admiral who ever lived after the victory of Pearl Harbour , Togo  stop them right at the proposal because he must have love truth more than nationalism in a way , and said to them that the greatest admiral who ever lived was the korean Yi Sun Sin the mortal foe of Japan ... What a testimony from a Japan warrior to a vouched enemy ... Yi Sun Sin life story is incredible...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yi_Sun-sin

There is an incredible movie you must see :

"The Admiral: Roaring Currents" a fantastic movie based on true events... Incredible events...

The third admiral Themistocles was greek and crush the Persian bigger fleet and changed history at the same time 300 super warrior Spartans stalled 100,000 persians ... We were europeans because of these spartans in a way, if not for them , Greece would have been crush in his course... Nelson was a great admiral or Cook too, but chauvinism and ignorance only make us forgetting about the past and the way civilizations all contributed to mankind ... Thats my point...

I am pretty sure that some great audio product with great engineering exist in china as in Holland or as in Germany and Japan...

 

@mahgister

You have decided to become a lawyer for the Chinese ... (illusion of rightness based on book facts - the reality is somewhat different).
Have you been to China? I have been several times...
My post was exclusively applied in nature (was the answer to the question of the author of the branch).
I’m not a chauvinist ... by the way, do you know what the Chinese call tourists? - white monkeys ... (at the same time, many of them themselves were illiterate, they were dirty and a few years ago they wiped their asses with their fingers ... but they were very proud))) ...)
Of course, you can physically make audio in any country - even at the north pole; but this does not happen ... Apparently there is some inertia-tradition ...
For example, the best cars are made in Germany, the best furniture in Italy and Romania...
Asians - their culture is different from another world and has its own specifics (they even hear differently ... they love high frequencies very much ... there is even a term - "Japanese sound") ... this is not an axiom, but a pronounced trend.
Do you know what Peter Qvortrup thinks about Americans? (audio) - this is a country of a child ... people in the mass do not have taste and internal culture (we are talking about both the content of music and the quality of its reproduction ... mainly talking about classical apparently) ... And I’ll tell you - yes, this is largely true ... BUT, if you need a good audio system - look for it in America))) .... (you will need to try many combinations of equipment).
Being skilled in this hobby means getting the best possible sound for the least amount of bucks.
1 . China is more of an assembly shop ... but not art level engineering ...
2. Cheap electronics (and the topic of the thread is about this) - a priori, these are bad components, saving literally on everything.

Where to buy cheaper serious high end?? ... it is important not only to buy, but also to hear in advance - that’s America ...
at the same time, individual devices can be bought in other countries (but these are big difficulties - travel, customs, delivery - this is the lot of real hobby fans).
In what countries ? - England, Russia, Italy, Japan (artisans), the Netherlands.

I believe you and this video without having any doubts about that...

My points were not about mass market products and actual difficulties of the chinese system...

I know that.. I think as you...

My point is about the genius behind chinese culture creativity which is not known here and then all that is good is bashed...

it is evident that a great % of mass market products are garbage from China..

my point is chinese engineers are not all garbage in history and even today... Look at Taiwan ...

This discussion began by saying that chinese audio is all bad and chinese only stole technology... It was not true in history... Today the coming back from British destruction of china for two centuries with drugs is remarkable... When i was young i gave money for the china millions of people dying with hunger... Now Shangai is a modern metropolis.. But the CCP so good it was for giving food on the table because everyone throw their manufacturing there without a back thought is a totalitarian regime and thats had an impact on economy FLUIDITY and freedom to improve too...

All that everyone knows...

But here few people knows that China was TOP of the world engineering for 2 millenias at least ... That was my point ... ad it is easy to prove it reading books...

 

@mahgister

Did you watch the video? It simply demonstrates how quality control is a distant second to appearing modern and progressive.

China is a total mess. Their system is rotten top to bottom. I agree that the US has serious issues, but China is smoke and mirrors.

I own a Holo May DAC KTE and it is a very good DAC, but Hong Kong and the South of China have changed and it doesn’t bode well for the future.

I never said that the actual engineering QUALITIES of China was superior...I said it was not far behind..

The actual economical and political situation in China and america is not the focus of my rectifications points ..

My point is about the prejudices and ignorance about  chinese FIRST BASIC  innovations in history  and in all fields  compared to europeans before the 17 th century...

And it is not because Chinese engineer are able to make a TOP amplifier today  that there is no others problem in China now  about qualities of product and everyone know that...

Do you think there is no problem in actual America ?

My point is about history... Chinese are not only able to copy and stole, as some claims,  they created BEFORE europeans a list of basic innovative technology which is staggering..

This is my point to oppose chauvinism about audio or anything..

 

 

@mahgister

This video shows recent events in China and how they differ from how China represents itself. I’ve read news reports of studies showing how China leads the west in this or that. This video shows how the current Chinese culture trades quality with the appearance of quality. Until this changes, China will not follow Japan as a high quality provider of technological goods. Does this mean that China does not possess some cutting age technology, no. It does mean that there is some question as to if their PL-15 long range air to air missile works as claimed. In fact this is true of much of their claimed technological advances.

The two men presenting this video lived in China for decades. The video was recorded two days ago.

Chinese Build Quality.

 

Add India now to China...

And the center of the world will shift soon.. How about a japanese amplifier ?

The greatest book i read about A. I. is written by an Indian scientist working in Japan...It makes chat-gpt as an already old technology... 😊

Japan engineering is always TOP in many fields..

 

 

 

I own a Sansui alpha amplifier... Then i declared officially  my conflict of interest here about Japan technology ,...

I was also a chinese emperor in one of my last life ...Then read me  with a grain of salt  as each one of my one hundred concubines will do... 😁

😊

Whenever China will created a great new technology or product the european will figure it out after us and they will mass market it cheaper... ( This was true till the 16-17 century)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_inventions

Whenever anyone develops a great new technology or product, the Chinese will figure out how to do it cheaper.

«History is a bitch» -- Groucho Marx

 

 

How swiss clock were anticipated long ago

https://montrespubliques.com/new-1minute-reads/early-chinese-horology-su-sungs-water-clock

«

It is remarkable just how advanced Chinese horology was back then. Upon its completion in 1090, Su Sung’s water clock would have been the most cutting-edge horological device on the planet. To put things in perspective, The Catholic Church didn’t have their first weight driven mechanical clock until 1283, Christiaan Huygens’s didn’t patent the pendulum clock until 1657, and Su Sung’s clock was only decommissioned in 1126. Imagine how much farther horology may have come had the Sung Dynasty and its successors continued to emphasize horology? It’s quite something.

In a book called “The Genius of China – 3000 Years of Science, Discovery, and Invention”, the introduction titled ‘The West’s Debt to China’ explains that one of the greatest untold secrets in history is the effect that China has had on many of the modern-day inventions Westerner’s still use today. And Su Sung’s clock is just one of the many contributions from Chinese civilization over the millennia. This also recalls China’s increasingly central role in the world of watchmaking today, and as such, their modern contributions to horology.»

Seriously, consider that you were born already in all cultures on earth perhaps, then try to remember from that perspective to understand history...

And goes the Christ way and do not differentiate people by languages or cultures or go the Buddha way  and go to a place there is no cultures and languages but consciousness..

 We need this now on earth...

 

Impossible!

it is not in the washington post news..😊

It is not a question of quality. The Apple seems good enough. China just sent a rocket into space employing methane. This is a challenge NASA is still trying to master, as well as the Russians.

 

Are you serious?

 

«As the No. 1 in new vehicle quality among Chinese brands, Changan Auto, with a proud score of PP100(202), not only leads other Chinese brands across the board, but also compares favorably with Audi (207 of PP100), Volvo (208 of PP100) and Land Rover (211 of PP100) among luxury car brands.»

Do you really think the billionnaires of China need American car for safety ?

 

 

 

now if we compare chinese born billionaires and American born billionnaires they are almost equal in number..

«With a combined net worth of $711 billion, these foreign-born U.S. citizens account for 15% of all American billionaire wealth. »

 

Lets take it from the other side - will you buy and drive chinese made car , _now_ ?
not just assembled but made from scratch and engineered?
Probably not because of risk, quality, abusing standards and no responsibility or service. and no reputation.

Great post! thanks...

IAG. Vertically integrated. Well engineered. Winning with great products they are bringing new like to iconic English brands Mission, Wharfedale, Quad and Leak. They happen to be in China, but nothing about them fits the old perfections of Chinese goods. They have reversed long standing patterns as their latest top priced speakers are engineered and assembled in England with many components made in IAG’s own electronics factory in China.

People forget they are in one life situation , and that they were born in many countries in the past... Reincarnation is already a proven fact... Only supertitious materialist dont know this fact... 😊

Chauvinism is a disease of the brain...

I just put an australian article STUDY very serious study demonstrating the chinese advances in technology , then if they are able going to the moon , they are able to create top Amplifier or Dac it seems to no avail for our audio specialist with blinders ...

There is so much craftmanship in the world, most of small size in this audio niche, how can you pretend to know it all ?

With forty million engineers , some well known as Fang Bian in headphone, who can claim the S.Q. /price ratio of chinese products is inferior to American one or european one ?

 

it is not surprizing negating basic fact that most people are unable to cope with reality...Imagine economy and geopolitic now ?

Better to stay in the children gear consumers superstitions habits comparisons... 😊

 

Hmmm.

Let’s see.

A high speed train out of Beijing, or an Amtrack out of Washington…

Sorry, we’re we discussing technology?

 

yes a big problem...

Population though which is decreasing in European and north American countries is a problem too..

 

China's biggest problem now is demographic collapse - more elderly than they know what to do with. Not enough young people being born. It is a train wreck.

I support high-quality audio products from any countries, as long as they are not copied nor made in sweat factory. 

You are not the only one, for sure anybody want this so...

 

😊

Sometimes we must establish simple truths..

Do not confuse reality awakening with quarrel...

Some seems to think that building an amplifier of the highest quality is impossible for Asian savage...

It is comical... Thats all... And pathetic...

And imagine i was not here myself... Who will had restablish truth over chauvinism ? It seems that i am alone ... I read many poster claiming non sense... not much saying simple facts with REFERENCES as i did...

If someone dont say other non sense i will mute myself ...

And you are right...

Good gear is created all over the world...

China included...

let's just enjoy the music and be thankful for lots of choices for excellent gear from all over the world, ok?

😊

Incredible arrogance...

Your observation remind me of the way the British Empire look at the Indian savages in 1914...

At the exact date when Littlewood and Hardy discovered the greatest genius in mathematic since Gauss, Newton and Archimedes.. Srinivasa Ramanujan who slept on palm and was self taught.....

how did you say :

" these guys got off the palm relatively recently"...

Have you studied China history in college ?

If so you must know that when the european savages were hunting China invented high productive agricultural methods and way more...

Asian national culture is noticeably different from the rest of the world.

For sure America exist since 3 centuries and are desintegrating right now and china for 3 millenia of continuity... Guess why ?

it is called traditional  cultural transmission...

Believe me, we must LEARN how to read and most people, even with a university diploma dont know how to read critically...

Then saying what you just said with sarcasm illustrate my point ... Most people are unable to read critically confronting what is wrttten with a larger context...

The context implicate history and a larger cultural perspective and also philosophy  or other related or not so related fields most of the times and this  about any question in  ANY FIELD ...

Why?

Because we must not only analyse a text critically but to do so read it in a historical, cultural and objective LARGER  context...

i dont think that this is well taught anymore in most college in North america ..

People are taught to be specialists who know everything about nothing... Passive consumers and passive slaves workers... We see it in the last three years... I will stop here..

I just discussed for ONE WEEK here with an engineer in audio who was unable to figure out the link between hearing theory and electrical measures.. He confused his toys with science.. and i am by no way a specialist in audio myself , i only learned how to read...

Then i know how and when to believe what i read... I am not always right but i CAN VERIFY...

 

 

And, I believe everything I read.

China makes many claims, but there isn’t anything claimed by the CCP that can be believed.

 

I dont think australia is really a good friend of the CCP...Guess what their analysis show :

«The United States and other western countries are losing the race with China to develop advanced technologies and retain talent, with Beijing potentially establishing a monopoly in some areas, a new report has said.

China leads in 37 of 44 technologies tracked in a year-long project by thinktank the Australian Strategic Policy Institute. The fields include electric batteries, hypersonics and advanced radio-frequency communications such as 5G and 6G.«

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/02/china-leading-us-in-technology-race-in-all-but-a-few-fields-thinktank-finds

and you can verify and search all areas HERE :

https://techtracker.aspi.org.au/

 

And i dont think that anybody could judge a technological level by using political opinion... Simple example : Russia aerospace technology superiority in 1957...

Another example :

German superiority in missile and jet plane in 1945...

Any history books is full of examples... Baghdad was the most advanced city in the world at some point in history...

Technology levels ansd scientific levels are not politically related AS THE MAIN FACTOR to democratic, ploutocratic, imperial and any other political regimen...Even theocratic regime can produce high level of science : ancient Egypt or Ancient Peru...

And statistically how can you negate that the enormous chinese population as the indian population over one billion each will not give us a greater numbers of geniuses ?

It is a Gauss-Bell curve distribution...

anybody can compute it in five minutes...

Then if the number of geniuses is five times higher because the population is five times more guess how many generation we must wait before a technological boom , if the population is able to eat well for sure ?

Answer : one generation of thirty years and the fruits will come... We see it now if this australian study is to be read... There is other studies ... But one is enough...

 

By the way, where is North america on this map :

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/average-iq-by-country

 

but in North America we can count on the capital intelligence index ," The Intelligence Capital Index (ICI) is a way to gauge the ability of countries to capitalise on the knowledge economy by assessing their environments for education, creativity and talent attraction. "

It is the reason why we compete with China and India for now... 😊

 

It is incredible that people will argue against simple evidence based on prejudices...

And how do you compared so much companies from China and Us or any other countries ?

 i put a link above...

The ANSWER is there...

And china technological advances begin to eclipse US in many fields ...

Then seriously claiming that simple amplifiers or dac  technology is nowhere in China equal to US or Swiss or Germany or Poland, is preposterous...

How can adults be so twisted in  simple facts and simple reasoning ?

Chauvinism ?

 

 

You are right for sure...I will mute this great mouth of mine ...

My best to you....

😊

The lab was designed by French technology State sponsored..

https://www.mediapart.fr/en/journal/france/310520/strange-saga-how-france-helped-build-wuhans-top-security-virus-lab

 

And the virus come from a "random" accident... Perhaps... 😊

And Bill Gates multiply his money by "randomness" luck... I am not sure about this ... Etc...

The origin of life too is supposed to be only pure "randomness" for lazy brain materialist thinker ...😉

But at the end something control even randomness and assign limits to it...It is mathematical ...

i dont believe in pure abstract empty order nor in absolute randomness, i believe in orchestrated rythms...

Some call it "complotism" ... Some other call it "music" ...

I call it number theory and politic of power...

By the way, the qualitative aspects of these orchestrated rythms are the BASIS of the Yi ching book , Leibnitz so admired , creating the binary calculus and searching for his characteristica universalis...

Leibnitz too never believe in absolute randomness... I am not alone... 😊

 

Some here need research tools.. 😉

 

https://techtracker.aspi.org.au/

 

«The United States and other western countries are losing the race with China to develop advanced technologies and retain talent, with Beijing potentially establishing a monopoly in some areas, a new report has said.

China leads in 37 of 44 technologies tracked in a year-long project by thinktank the Australian Strategic Policy Institute. The fields include electric batteries, hypersonics and advanced radio-frequency communications such as 5G and 6G.«

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/02/china-leading-us-in-technology-race-in-all-but-a-few-fields-thinktank-finds

 

 

After reading that i think that Swiss Dartzeel amp technology will not pose a great treat to audiophile chinese growing market..

😊

Switzerland with CH Precision and DarTZeel stands atop the ultra-hifi business! China will never contend in that segment!

 

Read Lao Tse, tao te ching book , to train your chineese understanding about intelligence ... marvellous book...

I recommend the only book which rival any other existing book in depth , save number theory books, the Yi-King...And no, it is not a mere divination book... 😁

 

Read what Leibnitz and some jesuits as Ricci in China thought about this book ... By the way Leibnitz devised binary calculus after seeing the Yi-King (or yi ching) , which is binary symbolism ...

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3219083

https://www.inverse.com/article/46593-gottfried-wilhelm-leibniz-i-ching-binary-system

 

 

«Chinese spies are now everywhere along the railroad tracks »-- Groucho Marx🤓

My chineese Hidizs dac low cost is insanely good... For his price...There is better for sure, but i cannot fault it really... And there is a diminishing return zone which is subjectivily and objectivily characterized zone...My only upgrade , a real upgrade from it will cost me 40 times his price... Not a marginal improvement with few thousand bucks but a REAL upgrade...The real upgrade will be American made by the way...

 

On the other hand my old german engineering school the hybrid AKG K 340 beat most chinese Hifiman headphones probably at any price save one perhaps or two of the costlier one i dont know ...And i am not interested to buy one even if i could...

My hifiman HE 400 sound by far as complete junk, less good than my Akg k701 which i dislike too and anyway was made as junk compared to the K340 as were my 9 others headphone anyway ... ( the chinese He 400 break on my head from his own bad design i did not weep so bad it was in spite of positive reviewers) Yes i must say i dont like headphones in general .. Save my actual one...

There is no general truth without many exceptions ... Each product has his own engineeering history and context...

But claiming that there is not much audiophiles with money in China NOW with no good high end products in China NOW is not realistic... Just think about how many good engineers there is and how many good pianists for the population size ?

Way more than in America now... Canada included...

"By some estimates, the country has as many as 40 million piano students, compared with six million in the United States. " It is the same for engineers numbers..

Who knows all audiophile top products from China from the last 10 years ?

Just my big rock of salt...

I will only correct this claim by saying that China was in advance on all technological level for millenias... They lost their advance only for few centuries After the 16 th century...

They invented everything BEFORE european take off after the 16 century...

Dont believe me read a book :

Joseph Needham Science and civilization in China...A mammoth series of books , but like me you can read a one book shortened version..

Think about almost anything, the chinese created them before...

There is even a map describing all technologies by date in Europe compared to China..

It is easy to verify...Among many reasons there is the population densities which was higher in China than in Europa...Then when you had more "engineers" you create more... Simple... They are many others factors for sure.. many books were written on this...

Then reducing ALL chinese engineers to mimicking non creative engineers is a bit far fetched...

 

An interesting question will be why the theoretical scientific method explicitly develop by Galileo was born in Italia and why the industrial boom who came after did not existed in China, is related to questions about religion and geography among many other deep factors and also related to the triple roots; semitic, greek and roman birthing of Europe and the continuous nourishing technological line going from China to Europe before and after Islam... In few words :

«Why did modern science stop developing in China after the 16th century? Needham believed this was due to China’s sociopolitical system which was not affected by Chinese inventions.»

For example the huge fleet of boats way more big than any european fleet, able to conquer the world in a way, was dismanteld   for  socio-poilitical self isolation reasons ...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/500-years-ago-china-destroyed-its-worlddominating-navy-because-its-political-elite-was-afraid-of-free-trade-a7612276.html

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_Civilisation_in_China

 

 

Second with the coming economical crisis , the price of audio will change a lot...

i cannot predict how.. 😊

 

 

 

«Some news are way too old and deep to be in newspapers» Anonymus journalist 😁