Update/Upgrade your preamp and phono preamp. Seriously consider same brand synergy.
What Power Amplifier Should I Buy?
I am looking to increase my system power. I currently am using a Bryston 2.5B cubed, which is specified at 135 Watts/CH. I am using Revel f208 speakers crossed over at 120 Hz to a 15" HSU sub. The f208 speakers have 88.5 dB sensitivity (Amir measured 88-89dB SPL at 1W into 8 ohms). I sit about 7.5 feet away from the speakers and listen up to 92 dB SPL, but mostly stay between 80-90 dB SPL at my listenin g location.
I have not had power issues. I've never seen a clipping light. I just want more oomph. I've never had a power amp with more power than the 2.5B cubed.
My budget is about $5K. I have been looking at some used 4b cubed amps.
My preamp is a vintage ML No. 38s. Digital from Bryston BDP-3/BDA-3 combo. Analog using Koetsu RS and Shelter 901 cartridges into an SUT (20x) followed by a very vintage Paragon System E used as a phono preamp (I have fully repaired this preamp, particularly the power supply).
I like the sound of the 2.5B cubed. I had a Cary 120 tube amp for some time, but grew tired of the heat and the continuous maintenance, including the insane prices for tubes. I did not experince that great "tube sound" that others rave about. I sold the Cary and went back to the 2.5B cubed.
Will the 4B cubed disappoint?
What other amps should I consifder, new or used?
Thanks for your help!
All good suggestions here, but I browsed the 2009 Stereophile review of your preamp, and the overall impression I get is that it is ‘polite’. It sounds to me like you want something a bit more dynamic, so it might be worth some investigation. As for an amp recommendation, I can only recommend Coda, as that is what I have. Find a used #8. I would look at the preamp first though. |
IMO 15" HSU sub is for home theater. Your Revel have two 8" per enclousre(consider large for most tower designs today) mid/woofers. if it doesn't get as loud as you like, then consider the bigger Bryston or speakers that are more suited to your music. disclosure- I run my SVS sealed micro (twin 8") up to 120HZ and let my Martin Logan ESL-x (2@8" each) go full range. I would like to add another micro for stereo sub. I EQ out some hot spots with the SVS app. I also have a 15" yamaha horn loaded PA for loud listening :) |
Your amp MIGHT not be the cause of lack of umph. My recent experience with my ~3 year old Emerald Physics 3.4s (12" coaxial driver) in a large room I long felt that I needed subwoofer reinforcement UNTIL... This is a mind blower and YMMV (though I doubt It) I recently addeed a single Vera-Fi Snubway (search forum for comments), admittedly plugged into a Core Power 1800, itself plugged into a 20amp dedicated line is, in a word, unbelievable. Since inserting it (it simply plugs into the wall or whatever PLC you might have- MSRP $295!!!) ) I rarely miss having a sub HTH |
It sounds like you don't use much more than 3-5 watts per channel now. Why would an amplifier much more powerful than the 135 watt per channel amp improve on the matter? It seems like the only metric people care about is power, so more must be better. It simply is not the case. There is much more to achieving good sound than can be measured, whether that measurement is power, harmonic distortion, intermodulation distortion, slewing induced distortion, signal to noise ratio, damping factor, etc. If if were the case that we can determine quality by any set of measurements, there wouldn't be such a vast array of market choices, alternative designs and fundamentally different approaches to design; things would be narrowed to the objective "best" at each price level. You should make an effort to hear for yourself an array of amplifiers. You should not dismiss any type of amplifier based on limited experience with one particular amp; that would be like dismissing all American-made cars based on your experience with a Pinto. I don't subscribe to the "tube sound" or "tube magic" idea because there is a VAST difference among tube amps (more variability than there is among good solid state amps) and there are many that, to me, anyway, sound more brittle, harsh, and unpleasant than most solid state amps (I particularly don't like most high-powered tube amps employing tubes like the KT88).
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@hk_fan ... thinking same thing! |
Perhaps a pair of Bryston 7B SST monoblocs? If you like the Bryston sound (I do too) you can get a set of 7B SST (Super Steve Tanner) used with years of warranty left for 4-5K. I drive my woofers with these and the upgrade in sound quality and oomph was stunning. (Formerly I drove my 6 way towers with an Audio Research VT130 which is now the mid/tweeter amp.I find tubes to have flabby bass at loud levels) |
I had the s@me concern as you, and I recommend a look at the Odyssey power amps. I replaced a 100 wpc tube amp with two mono Odyssey Stratos Extremes with several upgrades, almost making them equivalent to Kismet amps. 200 wpc, and the improvement was marked driving my Fyne Audio F-702s. |
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@ditusa Thanks for showing me an alternate path. Could you explain how a second sub improves the imaging and sound stage? Perhaps I used the wrong word. By "oomph" I meant more power for transients. I wasn't indicating that I needed more bass. I believe I have enough bass. Oh, by the way, I use REW to calibrate and integrate the components. I aim for 1.5 dB/octave roll-off above 1KHz and 1.5dB rise from 200 Hz to 20Hz. I use a graphic equalizer to achieve an FR that's close to this. |
OP, One caution. Investing in a different amp at roughly the same investment level is likely to be trading one set of strengths and weaknesses for a different set. Unless you have made a big mistake on the overall sound ( like you bought a solid state and really would enjoy a warmer more natural sounding tube amp). In this case a sideways move can be of value. My rule of thumb to avoid disappointment is to research thoroughly and invest no less than 2x. This will result in a serious improvement in all aspects of sound quality. Unless I can afford the jump, I just enjoy my system until I can. |
@ditusa +1: Two subs for stereo is better than one in mono. The OP's Bryston amp has sufficient watts for the Revel speakers. Doubling or trippling the wattage is inconsequential. |
I’d think this SMcAudio DNA 1 would be worth a try and should be negotiable down to $2k at this point I’d think. Plus, if you like what you hear you can send it back in for the more recent upgrades to get even more and still be well below your budget. I recently had my upgraded DNA 0.5 in my friend’s system and it sounded beefier and more robust than his 3B SST2, which is why I thought this might give you what you’re looking for. Best of luck. |