Maybe a Used POPORI Acoustics XR1.23 Electrostatic Loudspeakers Maybe a New POPORI Acoustics WR1.23 Electrostatic Loudspeakers https://poporiacoustics.com/home/ POPORI Acoustics is in the USA now ! https://notableaudio.com/popori-european-electrostatic-speakers/ Notable Audio will be at Axpona 2023 Show.. we will find out how good they are then ! Michael Fremer has some Wilson Audio XVX’s and said the New POPORI Acoustics XR1.23’s sounded REALLY GREAT in the Feedback below ! |
at that level of speakers ($200k--$300k+) the room and system are more significant than the speaker itself in terms of system performance. what an ’uber’ speaker can deliver is less limitations to the performance ceiling you can reach. it can allow for your sources and electronics to fully deliver what they can do. it’s an enabler. however, it’s even more subject to garbage in <-> garbage out than a less capable speaker. you as a system builder are more challenged to rise to the occasion. that big speaker is throwing lots of energy into a room. good and bad things can happen. so certainly a speaker for a $100k less can compete, depends on the system and the thinking and sweat equity behind it. price/value ratio is fuzzy as to ROI as you increase the price. |
@mikelavigne +1 Mike |
heard the aurion apollo at axpona last year 60k beat any and everything at the show 60k a large open back line array comprised of multiple stacked amt drivers that are a unique design crosssedover toa pair of subwoofers
the system somes with a trinov processor as a preamp crossover dac and room correction the system is 105db efficient so you need a small amplifier the aplollo did it all a huge three-dimensional soundstage effortlessly filling the ballroom the highs were extended and airy
just amazing how real it sounded
we were so blown away we are going to get a pair
Dave and Troy Audio intellect nj |
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+1 Mike Lavigne. If I had $100K to spend on speakers to try to beat the XVX, I’d be looking the Lanche No. 7.2 at ~$90K. Specs are fairly similar, though the Wilson is twice as heavy. Lansche can deliver similar tonal richness, if not more than Wilson, and the clarity is also incredible, maybe surpassing Wilson’s, with its proprietary Corona plasma tweeter. Best of all, where Wilson’s dispersion is typically very narrow and requires a vice grip listening position, Lansche’s dispersion is much wider while still delivering impeccable holographic imaging. I am a dealer, but not for Lansche. You can contact High End By Oz for more info on them as Oz is the North American distributor. |
@stringreen Have you been to many of those lately? We just saw Muse in concert last weekend and the first thing my wife said was “this sounds shitty, I’ve been spoiled by your system.” :) |
OP, I am confused. Is there a point to this post? Are you in the market for a set of speakers? “Beat Wilson…” This is an ambiguous question. I have heard some incredible Wilson, Magico, and other well known expensive speakers. I can appreciate what they can do… but also, I have not wanted to own any of them. Why? Because of my values in sound. What I am looking for is different. So if this is a real personal question… what are your preferences in sound… your equipment, budget, venue, and desire to swap out components to support the speakers. If this is just a question for the fun of asking questions… just say so. |
+1 @mikelavigne Your post is so very on point. How many times do we see folks with pricey large speakers that are shoe horned into rooms that are obviously not appropriate in any way for the speaker design. Many times a large screen TV is set up between the speakers, with absolutely no thought given to room acoustics or any other room aspect. IMO, anyone who is spending large on speakers with no idea as to how to set them up, or that does not have an appropriate room to house them in, along with a great acoustic space, is simply wasting their money.
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@p05129 I have heard the XVX and the Lansche in different rooms with different electronics, but I still have a very clear understanding of what each speaker delivers. In my suggestion, I provided one that I thought would most closely resemble the sonic signature of the XVX but perhaps surpassed it for a lower price as the OP suggested. Others have suggested incredible speakers (Borresen, Raidho, Vimberg), but they are all very different tonally from the XVX. |
A friend recently took a Punt on a Speaker Purchase, the Speakers in question are not in the price league of the ones being spoke off in this thread, but are a Speaker known to compete favourably with Models costing £20K - £30K. The demonstration was given by the owner, who has in the past few years rolled Speakers through their System to an approx' value of £100K. The Room with the System and demonstration given, was claimed by my friend to be almost Cuboid in shape with a recess at the far end making it a Short Legged 'L Shape'. My friend could not believe how the Room contributed to the sound produced from the Speaker. He claimed it was an extremely poor SQ and not any speaker was going to present will in such a environment. It was quite obvious a different environment would be much more beneficial, a Price was agreed, and a Punt Purchase made. Recently I have been demonstrated these Speakers in my friends system in Room that has been designed around the HiFi System as the main entertainment. The purchase has proved to be great value for money, the demonstration has also been the cause of my re-evaluating my long-term adherence for the use of Electrostatics. I now believe, that for the first time, I have heard a reasonably affordable Floor Standing Cabinet Speaker that is a design to be a suitable alternative to ESL Design Speakers I am very familiar with. The Speaker Design is one part of the equation, the room in use, the conditioning of the room/environment in use and the upstream signal production are all important factors in the overall equation to getting the best Sound Produced. The most expensive Speakers can be as fatiguing as the sound heard in a Amusement Arcade if not given the correct environment to function in and not being sent a Signal that is made up with Low Distortion levels.
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The Lansche is out of phase a bit the plasma tweeter is so much faster than the woofers. Also Wilson can set up the XVX to have a larger sweet spot not a laser focused seating position if the customer ASKS THEM and has a the room to pull them a bit farther into to room. |
I mentioned this a few months ago to some incredulity. At a certain price the speaker should be designed around the room. Volume, materials, furniture, windows, rugs, shape. Bespoke production plus type of system to be considered.
Sort of like buying a Porsche while living on a very small island with one lane dirt roads.
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I am glad he likes them, Really I am. I have never heard them so just speculation on my end. But honestly I don’t get the design? 4 ways are to keep the driver behaving in their ideal range and not out of band but the measurements show serious resonances and or strong defraction.
In the wilson family I personally would have chosen the Alexx V with a wilson sub controller to high pass and two subs tuned to the room. Wilson’s own subs or something like duel Gothams and let them work their room correction magic. The room/bass interaction is the final frontier. |
only heard the XVX once at Axpona and it was crap, a mess, with D'Agostino Relentless amps. it did look impressive. i just assumed it was the room and set-up and don't hold the speakers or electronics accountable at all for the sound. maybe by the last day of the show it had improved, but i never returned to that room. rooms at shows should only be used for positive perceptions regarding gear. |
It all comes down to preference. Here is what I would purchase if I was looking for a pair of speakers today. The Dynamikks re $20K and the next model up is $30K. They are open, dynamic, have details, slam, and are musical. Easy to drive. Just heard them again with the Line Magnetic 20wpc intergrated amp around $4200 and they would be hard to beat even with that set-up. I have heard the new Wilsons set-up by Wilson recently with top of the line components. Nice but they are not the same sound as the Dyna's. The Dyna's deliver bass, clarity, dynamics that most speakers cannot match at any level. Read about their design and drivers. https://hifidirect.com/Dynamikks
Happy Listening.
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OP have you heard Austin Acoustic. These are probably the best system and speakers I will ever hear on my entire audio life.Wilsons,Magico and all good speakers. I've heard them at axpona but they were never properly set up, at times they play them to loud? The room is not even capable to absorb the energy. |
@ozzy62 The description offered to myself when I received my demonstration in the new owners system, which I am very familiar with. Has been that the Speakers although not impressive in the demonstration room, were still able to show that something was present that could be referred to as a attractive trait. It was felt a much more attractive presentation could be achieved with the set up environment being better thought out and the Signal being sent, being one that has a Low Distortion. A Offer was made that was quite close to the Drive Units Value only. The Xover for this design are known for the expense attached to the Parts and the Cabinets produced for this design is a very high quality, where the structure has real benefits for the Speakers Performance. The offer was accepted, hence the 'Punt Purchase' having taken place, as there was a 'gamble' in how the speculation for the Speaker would present in another environment. Too many purchases for HiFi today are able to be referred to as a 'Punt', as many individuals are buying without the knowing how a item performs and especially how the new item will present in the System it is intended to be used. |
To be somewhat fair, @stringreen sits first chair / as in plays first chair w many fine orchestra across the world…. Its a perspective…. i think as @ghdprentice strongly hints it’s a silly unfocused thread…… |
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@jpwarren58 "Sort of like buying a Porsche while living on a very small island with one lane dirt roads." Nailed it. |
@ozzy62. To take a punt on something is an English colloquialism for taking a chance or a gamble on something - hence "punter" is a synonym for "gambler". Regarding the topic itself, Alexx Vs are absolutely fabulous speakers but they do not have the scale of a Chronosonic. However, an Alexx V in the right sized room leaves very little to be desired. |
Hello to all, I think the price debate is wrong, it is not the right way to look for the materials that fit us. It's not about beating Wilson or Magico and consort, for less or more, it has no interest. You have to start with the basics and ask yourself the right questions: in which room we will listen to our Hifi system Any purchase of this type of material requires hours of listening, days of testing, change: cables, electronics, sources, positioning, sector, etc. ... It's a very long process, there is no absolute truth, everything is a question of sensitivity that is specific to each of us. I am sure that there are several brands of speakers that are as powerful and musical that will meet our expectations. You also need to find a dealer who will listen to you and point you in the right direction, but that's another debate. Jeff Design Audio |
Estelon Forza $174k vs Wilson XVX $329k I have auditioned Estelon but not XVX but I trust Stereophile reviewers’ ears.
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I bet the Clarisys Audio Minuet Panel speakers with 6 stacked REL Acoustics Line Array Subs would blow away the Wilson Audio XVX’s BUT let’s not start a WAR here.. OK 😉😈😈 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0IgdeSheak
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@rsf507 What did you say ? |
