Was my friend given misinformation.

Way2 has a similar background to mine...initially and still an enthusiast/ hobbyist, but spent almost 5 decades in the industry making my living.  Big chains hire people and "train them up" but they rarely achieve the level of knowledge of a true enthusiast.  In the company I worked for most of my co-workers in the mid-70s into the 80's were all enthusiasts with a lot of passion for HiFi...later, not so much.  

Many years ago Kenwood expanded distribution into catalog showrooms which ticked off audio specialty stores who helped build the brand in the US.  Kenwood's answer was to offer an "Audio Purist" line to independent dealers.  Sounded like the right approach to us.  We we unboxed the first integrated amplifier we noticed right away it lacked the bulk we were used to with classic Kenwood designs.  Tone controls, etc. were removed -- only the essential elements remanded.  But, sonically, it was a gutless wonder.  It was finally time to pop off the case and take a lot inside.  It was, literally, the same internals as the items made for the knobs-per-dollar retailers -- just "audiophiled up" to appeal to specialty stores.  We said "good bye" to the line.

I retired in 2016 from the industry.  I did observe that many integrated amplifiers from full-line manufacturers were just a shadow of their former selves with build quality and robustness (or, lack of it) very comparible with their AVR counterparts.

That being said, it's not a stretch to see how the Best Buy salesman reached his conclusions.  Without "real" 2-channel gear on his radar, in HIS world, AVR's and integrated amps may be the same.  "You don't know what you don't know" is a valuable asset for recruitment and training at Big Box retailers.

@invalid

Of course you do, but it may help someone else who has a dual purpose room, as I do, and able to achieve great 2 channel sound, in addition to great HT. Separately.

I have a Denon for ht and it’s good. For that. It treads water as a 2 channel amp.

Still...between that and the B&Ws.....the Denon wins.

Best Buy/Magnolia is the WalMart of audio. With apologies to WalMart.

He should have listened to you.

That's good advice, but I have a separate purpose built room for 2 channel.

@invalid

I have a marantz avr in a second system, and it doesn’t sound near as good as my main system. I tried the preouts to my amp once and couldn’t shut it off fast enough, very bright sounding with little bass. An integrated amp usually has way better preamp outputs and a better amp section as well.

The way to do this is go from the AVR pre-outs to a 2 channel preamp/amp or integrated that has HT pass-through. In that way you get two separated systems. It is what I do as I have a dual purpose room, and it works great. When listening to 2 channel, the AVR is no longer part of the chain. When in HT mode, the main/front speakers are also being driven by my 2 channel (in my case, mono amps) amp.

Do not use your AVR as the preamp. It works, but not well. Been there, done that.

Salespeople want to sell what THEY like.  The guy might not have heard anything better.  Comparing an AVR to a good stereo integrated would be like comparing Jim Beam to Knob Creek or Elijah Craig.

The B&W 603S2AE is a plain looking box but is a very good speaker for the dough,  even head to head with Revel or Focal equivalents. Denon makes some of the best value AVRs, too, but for the same cost a more targeted integrated might have been a “better buy”.  Really depends on whether the friend is looking for TV integration or mostly music listening. Sphinx has no DAC and many TVs have no analog outputs. 

I have a marantz avr in a second system, and it doesn't sound near as good as my main system. I tried the preouts to my amp once and couldn't shut it off fast enough, very bright sounding with little bass. An integrated amp usually has way better preamp outputs and a better amp section as well.

BB is for the purchase of cheap 75" throw-away TVs..............

Regards,

barts

2 channel is just stripped down AVR. I’ll have to remember that.😆

What I basically objected to was the way the salesman described the differences between a AVR and an Integrated amp. Putting down an Integrated amp as just a stripped down AVR was wrong. Let’s face it he’s going to point out all the features you get w/the AVR and for most consumers they’ll go for the feature packed item. Plain Integrated's are just not as sexy.

Why in the world would anyone ask a best buy guy what to buy? There is so much info out there on everything, so it is not that hard to do your own research....I don’t get it.

You may be able to say I told you so- but don’t do it.

Friends are more important than stereos.

Bad blood over stereo gear is silly. Life is short,,,,

Oh, I get it now.  This is a post where audiophiles can unload and feel superior to the unwashed masses.  The AVR is a POS, it has too many features, it has no place in a serious system, it's a bad system, it's a joke, etc.

If he also spends thousands on cables, footers and fuses you guys would say it's his money and he can do as he pleases, right?

Think of it this way, in 3-5 years when that POS irreparably craps out you'll be able to say I told you so.

@ozzy62

The real shame is that he was duped into buying an AVR. These have no place in a serious audio system.

Yup …. Nailed it…”Point, Set, and Match…” in tennis jargon.

”…He said the salesman told him to stay away from integrated amps as they are not anything but stripped down AVR’s without the features….

It is both infuriating and also very sad to hear Best Buy troglodytes spewing this abject horseshite to solely flog their commission dependent Uber-cheap-as-you-can-build-it Chinese inferior crap AVRs….especially since the reality check of build quality and resulting audio performance of a quality build integrated amp is actually the polar opposite, that smokes any AVR….full stop.

He said the salesman told him to stay away from integrated amps as they are not anything but stripped down AVR's without the features.

Selling point of the month!

I bet though it can be bettered 

It’s true that AVR’s pack a lot of options and a lot of amps at astonishing price levels as compared to ’high end’ stereo.

In your friend’s case, he paid for 7 amps but he probably uses only two, that’s a pity.

The Denon has the option to use 2 of the 7 amps for bi-amping the front speakers. If you can show him how to do this he’ll have even better sound out of his B&W 603’s.

He can also run his HDMI cable via the Denon and use his AVR together with his TV to enjoy great TV sound.

Wow guys and gals! Have any of you even heard this combo he got? I installed that same avr for my brother in law with a pair of Martin logan Motion 60x and it sounded very good. I'll go out on a limb here and bet he's not slumbing it with his music.

While there are some AVRs that do pay attention to, and actually do provide very good two channel sound, you’re very unlikely to find them at a Magnolia/Best Buy.

Your friend would have been better served by purchasing an all in one integrated/streaming/DAC/amplifier, some with room correction, and some with HDMI ARC connections for running a 2.1 channel TV connection..  Various manufacturers make them, NAD has several models at different price points.  The best advice you could give him would be to return it all and take a look on Crutchfield’s website.  Lots of information as well as customer reviews, but the best part is their generous return policy.

"Features are the bread and butter of low fi. High sound quality and few features are the mark of high fi."

Well put, agree 100%

You gave your friend great advice. I find Best Buy a great place to buy stuff that I have researched and decided to buy… for instance my Sennheiser Ambeo sound bar from my bedroom. 24 month financing and a good price.

It is great if your friend likes what he got. If he followed your advice then he would have a better sound ing system. Features are the bread and butter of low fi. High sound quality and few features are the mark of high fi.

Fortunately the BB guy sold him B&W and Denon… it could have been much worse.

You can lead a horse to water….

Yes the best buy guy Knows nothing 

About a week ago I saw a Seinfeld Episode where George was going to buy a highly rated Volvo. The Car Salesman then mentioned that the car a Chrysler LeBaron was once owned by Jon Voight. George took the LeBaron. and Jon Voight ended up being John Voight a Dentist.😀

Wow...your friend got the double whammy, bad advice and a bad system!

Wow Best Buy who would have know! Maybe Whole Foods will give me advice on my next car.

@rsf507 I didn’t know you were looking for an EV.

I’m no fan of rear ports, but that’s a lot of speaker for the price they are asking. same for your recommended Revel

OF the Integrated’s that Best Buy sells, then Integrated being a stripped down AVR makes ’best buy sense’.

your recommended amp is soooo clean, what a mess he bought.

He will be alright. It has a full set of preouts.

@facten Must not be much of a friend , he listened to the best buy guy and not you

I have a friend who asks my advice and then asks all our friends for advice, then doesn't listen to any of it.

The real shame is that he was duped into buying an AVR. These have no place in a serious audio system.

facten did you not notice the rolling eyes at the end of my message 🙄🙄He likes the setup. But the fact that the salesman said that integrateds were nothing but stripped down AVR's wasn't correct. I guess Nelson Pass has been cheating us all these years.😲

Think you’re being generous describing a Best Buy Magnolia employee as an Audio Expert. But hopefully you were being humorous

I think his being happy with his purchase (if he is) is not the entire enchilada.

He most likely would be happier had he taken your advice.

And as usual;

GLORY TO UKRAINE!!!!

I would think “misinformation” is being polite. Is he happy with his purchase? Is there a return policy?  If he likes it,then he made the right move. I’ve said it before,and I’ll say it again, we are all chasing a different dragon. 

Is your friend happy with his purchases?

facten I think he got dazzled by all the features and inputs. I'm just a friend he got advice from a trained Audio Expert.🙄

Must not be much of a friend , he listened to the best buy guy and not you

Everyone knows that Best Buy clerks are the go to for everything you need to know about anything. I remember someone here citing a clerk at a retail store giving the definitive answer to what's going on with inflation. Always a good source for a laugh.

All the best,
Nonoise

Wow Best Buy who would have know! Maybe Whole Foods will give me advice on my next car.