Townshend Springs under Speakers

The hypocrisy is that MC ridiculed forum members for providing positive comments to @rixthetrick, citing that we "all got played" by him and hardy har har comments....all because it turns out Rix is going to be bringing speakers to market soon. In the meantime MC somehow claims to maintain the ethics of Gandhi after having conditioned hundreds of forum members to lust after Townshend springs for the past year simply to tee up the proclamation that he’s becoming their US dealer. These are just facts, not opinion. Nearly every other dealer on this forum has the class, business ethic, and decency to make full disclosure on products they support with a business relationship.

thanks jayctoy and tobes.

Nearly every other dealer on this forum has the class, business ethic, and decency to make full disclosure on products they support with a business relationship.

Assuming this is fact, what if the dealer opportunity came up recently? I mean it's hard to believe MC was courting this arrangement from his first Townshend post. It would hardly be the first time enthusiasm for a product led to product representation.
I realise how it looks, but is that unethical? 

I was a little surprised that MC publicly announced my intention to build speakers in the US, in such a manner, a model as yet not designed.

However it is true, that is my intention for the future.
I had never told MC that he was not to mention it, there was no pledge of secrecy, I did not consider a conflict of interest though. As the speakers I currently own, that I built myself, are made of materials that are no longer available, it didn't occur to me to be an issue??

New Zealand company Laminex no longer produces HD3, which is 1.6 times denser than HDF board. Many already know I am trying to find a replacement material much like Panzerholz, and have had help by some Agon members in tracking down good materials for a highly inert enclosure structure.

@three_easy_payments - I cannot deny your sentiments, however, as those particular products have largely provided such good results (not for everyone) for most. I would hope that flaming a good product from a good manufacturer for personal clashes could be shelved?

Despite personal grievances some may have with MC, if indeed there is merit in the talk of MC being a dealer for them? I would hope a quality product should be allowed to flourish that provides benefits to other members of this forum.

@tobes and @rix  I agree with much of what you both said.  A couple of points:

1) I like the Townshend Seismic pods that I bought last year.  I think they perform well and are priced fairly.  In no way have I ever flamed their products but I do know that others have and shouldn't do so if the basis is simply a personal grievance with MC.  

2) While I suspect MC didn't necessarily know or even contemplate a year ago he was going to become a dealer he certainly did know at some point days, weeks, months ago - at which point he should have disclosed this fact amidst all the product gushing.  In my view, once he knew he was becoming a dealer he should have made that ethical disclosure.  I suspect every other dealer of products on this forum would agree.

@rix 

I was a little surprised that MC publicly announced my intention to build speakers in the US, in such a manner, a model as yet not designed.

It was retaliation for providing your honest impressions of what MC's system and speakers sounded like during your visit.  I wasn't surprised.

I mean it’s hard to believe MC was courting this arrangement from his first Townshend post. It would hardly be the first time enthusiasm for a product led to product representation.
I realise how it looks, but is that unethical?

As it applies to Townshend Pods and Townshend Podiums, no.

However, consider Townshend products that followed the pods and podiums and received positive commentary from him: Townshend Audio F1 Fractal Speaker Cables, Townshend F1 interconnects, Townshend Super tweeters.

Seemed at the time like a lot of expensive gear being acquired by someone who espouses low hanging fruit, and bang-for-the-buck products like Tekton Moab and Raven Blackhawk.

Now, it makes more sense.

I agree with Tvad’s comments. Also, we really don’t know when MC started down the road of being a dealer. Being enthusiastic about a product and later working for that same company is really not an issue. It makes sense actually. Being passionate about the quality of a product line is an important part of selling it. The only question that remains is when did he start the process of going from happy customer to rep. Yes, MC detractors will suggest it happened on his first purchase, but that is highly unlikely.

@tvad,
"However, consider Townshend products that followed the pods and podiums and received positive commentary from him: Townshend Audio F1 Fractal Speaker Cables, Townshend F1 interconnects, Townshend Super tweeters.

Seemed at the time like a lot of expensive gear being acquired by someone who espouses low hanging fruit, and bang-for-the-buck products like Tekton Moab and Raven Blackhawk.

Now, it makes more sense."

Agree. If this is a in fact a business endeavor I hope it works out for him.
People do however appreciate upfront disclosure and clarity of motive when repeatedly praising specific products.
Charles

If true, might we at least be subject to fewer MC-touting posts on this product going forward? Perhaps we’ll find out. I don’t doubt his conviction in pods and podiums, but for anyone interested at all in the product, the search function would be quick to demonstrate said conviction. The constant reminders would seem even more excessive if coming from someone with a stated financial interest. Again, if true. 

Looking forward to seeing the "full disclosure" statement at the end of each and every post from now on.

@grannyring a careful read of his posting history shows the gushing BEFORE the product arrives. Over more than one and not limited to Townsend.

One does wonder if Max knows the baggage he picked up or if £ or $ is his only objective.

Cue the sycophants…..

Going back a bit MC was always touting the benefits of SR products to the skies for anyone within ear shot. Right around the time he started touting Townsend products I remember a throw away line he had about Ted Denny being an enthusiastic DIYer and not in the same league as Townsend. I could be wrong (a quick search turned up nothing) but it really struck me at the time that he'd say something like that, which made me sit up and take notice.

Did one avenue close and another open?

All the best,
Nonoise

Anybody remember the scene in Pulp Fiction where Jules and Vincent are discussing why Marsellus Wallace had Tony thrown out a window? Vincent is adamant it was because Tony had crossed a line massaging Mia Wallace’s feet. Round and round it goes, and a very serious discussion it is. Classic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD1CNqghN7Q

Only later, the one person who would know for sure Mia Wallace herself shows just how silly all the rumors are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HQh4YRw9H8
In case you missed it the whole point of this post comes right at the end:

https://youtu.be/2HQh4YRw9H8?t=160

Looking forward to seeing the "full disclosure" statement at the end of each and every post from now on. - twoleftears

Oh man, sarcasm galore. ROFL

Hammer met nail head.

That opinion does not show clear thinking clearthinker.

Going back a bit MC was always touting the benefits of SR products to the skies for anyone within ear shot. Right around the time he started touting Townsend products I remember a throw away line he had about Ted Denny being an enthusiastic DIYer and not in the same league as Townsend. I could be wrong (a quick search turned up nothing) but it really struck me at the time that he'd say something like that, which made me sit up and take notice. - nonoise

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/extra-extra-millercarbon-proven-wrong-read-all-about-it-extra...

@nonoise this quote?

...Not like I shouldn’t have known better. I Met both Caelin Gabriel and Ted Denney around 1992, back when they were not that far from being DIY’ers themselves. So it is not so much that it can’t be done, as it is just astronomically unlikely... - millercarbon

Good points all. But, forget trying to reason with them. They are not reasonable. Doomed to failure. All we can do is maybe use the attention they generate to help reach the great mass of readers. One thing (among the many) they never will understand, I wouldn’t have near the audience without their constant bickering keeping me front and center.

The only question that remains is when did he start the process of going from happy customer to rep.

I have nothing to hide. It is all in my posts. Go read through them all. There you will find I got excited about Black Diamond Racing Cones and was for some years their only retail outlet in the NW. If you can glorify my taking them around to demo and call that retail. This is all public knowledge.

Then also around this time I was learning from my great audio mentor and friend Stewart Marcantoni. Stewart made his money selling cars but his only real love was audio and so after years of normal high level audiophile type stuff he cut back from cars and started running a very select boutique type audio business from home. It was Stewart who introduced me to Caelin Gabriel back when Shunyata was just a dream, Ted Denney back when Synergistic was still pretty small, and a few others. It was Stewart who pulled the strings to get me into CES even though I really only had one very crude prototype to display.

As to "when did he start" I know the question is of course not genuine but born in jealousy. Anyone truly without an axe to grind would ask only, "Does the stuff perform as he says? Are his evaluations accurate?"

It does. They are. This only makes the haters rage all the more. Sad. So freaking sad.

Ok then MC. I better understand your perspective on this. Yes, your evaluations are accurate, no doubt. Seems pretty reasonable to let folks know, when you actually knew, that you are entering a financial relationship with Townshend. What can possibly be wrong with that?

This is turning into a conflation of Tales of Brave Ulysses and the Perils of Pauline.

rix, thanks, that’s the one. The one where he effused with over the top abandon at Townsends cables. One can still see the backhanded compliment to Denny and Gabriel as now there’s a new DIYer in town.

As to "when did he start" I know the question is of course not genuine but born in jealousy. Anyone truly without an axe to grind would ask only, "Does the stuff perform as he says? Are his evaluations accurate?"

Jealousy? Really? I, and others here, are still waiting for your apology.
Until then, I will look askance at anything you say or advocate.

All the best,
Nonoise

"As to "when did he start" I know the question is of course not genuine but born in jealousy. Anyone truly without an axe to grind would ask only, "Does the stuff perform as he says? Are his evaluations accurate?"

It does. They are. This only makes the haters rage all the more. Sad. So freaking"

With all due respect I don’t believe those who are asking straightforward questions are motivated by jealousy. At least it does not appear this way from my vantage point. You seem to feel any reasonable inquiry is an attack against you. How so?

I say best wishes to you, and again I just believe people want open disclosure on products you frequently tout/promote ’if’ there’s a business or financial connection. I do not believe that is an unfair standard or expectation.
Charles

there’s a new DIYer in town.- nonoise

Is that millercarbon?

I say best wishes to you, and again I just believe people want open disclosure on products you frequently tout/promote ’if’ there’s a business or financial connection. I do not believe that is an unfair standard or expectation.
Charles

Obviously, that's reasonable Charles.

With all due respect, this bunch is as reasonable as a pack of hyenas.

Then quit the forum. No one knows anything but you, anyway.
Start your own with your own rules where you can control every aspect of the narrative. Take your fanboys with you to have an instant audience that will bow to your insanely superior audio knowledge. All of them are new here, anyway.
See? Sometimes there are solutions.
Two, in this instance.

MC, I also wish you all the best on this endeavor. I continue to buy new products from Townshend.  Love them. You would be wise to consider the advice and wisdom of reasoned posters here and humble yourself. When ALL posts, without exception, suggest it would have been wise to update the forum on your new relationship, it’s time to slow down and realize the truth of it. 
When everyone else is wrong, haters and lovers alike, and you’re the only one right, then you know it’s time to reconsider your thoughts on this matter. 

there’s a new DIYer in town.- nonoise

Is that millercarbon?

No. I believe he's referring to Townsend and his line of products, who had to start as a DIYer. Trading one guru for another. 

All the best,
Nonoise

My speaker bars arrived today.   They look great.   I also just received a set of upgraded CJ Premier 12 amps too, so I'm doing one thing at a time.  Amps first.  I'll probably get to the bars later in the week.

Thanks grannyring, appreciate it. But honestly, "this endeavor" no one even knows what it is- including me!

For the time being I am weighing my options. One of them being sell it all go off grid live the RV life a while. Seriously. Given it serious thought. Or move, TN top of the list, and build custom. Probably will do something in between. Could see my listening room transforming into a highly selective by-appointment boutique audio salon. Townshend, Origin Live, Audio Hungary and maybe even Synergistic Research would be a good fit, and the idea of taking Chuxpona on the road, could be fun.

First and foremost everything has to be a good fit. Forget shill, I don’t even "sell". When something gets me excited I tell people about it. So it can only be that kind of stuff. Also there has to be a need. That is why I say "maybe even" Synergistic Research. They make great stuff no doubt. But just how bad do they need another dealer? Townshend, Origin Live and Audio Hungary on the other hand, they have great products but no real market presence here.

I could go into greater detail but frankly so tired of having every word twisted around, no thanks. Especially since I really am just weighing my options. For now.

When I do decide, the good ones like you will be among the first to know.

I have witnessed the respect and difference of a once real poster on these pages go into the dumps.   Too bad....  Its all about attitude...   I won't be listening anymore.

https://www.atelier13-usa.com/amplifiers-tube

Audio Hungry tube amps - dealer in Tennessee

Audio Hungary on the other hand, they have great products but no real market presence here.

Need to pull your head out of you Raven.
https://www.soundbysinger.com/brand/qualitonaudio-hungaryhttps://almaaudio.com/collections/audio-hungary?gclid=Cj0KCQjw-NaJBhDsARIsAAja6dNv6n74PP77s2ehiYXReQ...
https://www.atelier13-usa.com/amplifiers-tube
Oh and how about the reviews MC when was the last time you seen a Raven reviewed? LONG ASS TIME.https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2021/08/06/audio-hungary-qualiton-x200-integrated-review/
MC your cred is ZERO.

I do know this, I will never buy a product based on a MC endorsement.

I’m hardly ever in MC’s camp, but I’ve dealt with a lot of people over the years, in a number of businesses. My experience has generally been that, unless you are dealing with someone who is a crook, most of the folks peddling gear are believers and if associated with a reputable company, can satisfy needs.
I would assume any model ultimately involves getting the brand better established here (whether that means in dealers’ hands for Internet sale or brick and mortar are all interesting questions but price for "tweaks" is often a consideration when you add the middle persons). Line revamps can accommodate pricing issues as well.
When I talked to Townshend a while ago, the web site wasn’t really doing anything, took you to England and I spoke to the bloke’s wife. Pleasant enough, but with a business, there are obligations that I’m sure a fellow as smart as MC is quite aware of (I don’t know much beyond what I read here, X Ray tech, Porsche enthusiast, and allegedly played the French horn).
Beyond that, a business of whatever sort is ultimately based on the goodwill it develops and maintains with its customers. Being closed, not answering the phone, seemingly out of business, slow or money sent and no reasonable response are all things that cut against good will. Dealing at retail is no easy matter as regards personalities; some customers are extreme and can be unreasonable. Yet restraint is required. (Really by both parties. I’ve found few things to gripe about in all the years I’ve done this, both with respect to gear and LPs).
If this is a venture that happens, I wish MC the best of luck. And have no more to add, nor do I expect that this will change the tenor of Miller’s posts here.

MC if you’re not a Townshend dealer, then I apologize. I understood you are now? I guess I am confused by your posts. Sorry.

French Horn. Not tenor. Never could sing worth a damn.

MC confirmed below what I've long suspected has been his true motivation behind everything he does in life - to have the largest audience possible

I wouldn’t have near the audience without their constant bickering keeping me front and center.

What kind of a person craves an audience?  What kind of needs are fulfilled by such a person?  I think we all know the answer to this.

I played it too. Never really got good at it. 

No grannyring I am not a Townshend dealer- or any other for that matter. It is like Whart laid out, they have one, but not much of a one, and people wind up going direct. Not that you need to apologize for anything but thanks again, appreciate the sentiment.  

What has happened, we have been talking about it. Hate to be mysterious and confusing but it really is like Mia said and all kidding aside it really is quite tiresome. Not you of course but a lot of em. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HQh4YRw9H8&t=160s

stringreen,
I might be the only person who doesn't know who you are referring to when you said this:
"I have witnessed the respect and difference of a once real poster on these pages go into the dumps.   Too bad....  Its all about attitude...   I won't be listening anymore."
You seem really upset so I'm wondering who it is. 

This thread is 

going off the rails on a crazy train

Who cares if MC is working on a business deal....people do it all the time.  If he is, he will tell the world about it when he is ready.....big whoop.  What are the damages?  Are there really people here who don't realize that buying stuff solely on the basis of over the top recommendations on an audio forum is a crapshoot at best - caveat emptor.   Does everyone really need a head lemming?

The main things I got out of this thread are that some people like their speakers spiked to the floor, some like them decoupled using springs, and there will be no consensus - shocker. 

The Townshend products are  basically springs, but their refined design offers an easy-to-use solution and relieves the consumer of the need to determine the proper spring size, spring constant, and method of damping needed for individual springs to effectively work with their speakers/equipment - and for that the buyer pays a hefty premium.  I agree with MC on the benefit of using springs under my speakers, but I surely didn't run out and buy fractal wire because he said it sounded good.  On the plus side, I did find it entertaining that the old spike vs. decouple argument gave Robert the opportunity to write another treatise and try to educate us on the one true path.  Normal people wouldn't understand.

I don't know who I feel worse for: Albert Einstein or Kyle MacLachian.

@nonoise - I loved The Hidden. Same era as Repo Man. Changed my life. :)

Wonder if people know who the Townshend dealer in the US is since they don't have it listed on their website

https://www.ear-usa.com/townshend-audio

Wonder if people know who the Townshend dealer in the US is since they don't have it listed on their website

Problem is, one doesn't receive replies, or the communication is spotty.

Also, pricing is considerably more favorable through John Hannant, who advertises on Audiogon and E-Bay.

Hate to be mysterious and confusing but it really is like Mia said and all kidding aside it really is quite tiresome.

Obviously this can only be made less confusing if more YouTube clips are posted.  

I have only purchased through John Hannant and find he is very responsive. 

Could see my listening room transforming into a highly selective by-appointment boutique audio salon.

https://i.postimg.cc/VLX7j62m/MC.jpg

Yes, your room clearly fills a void in the market that shockingly has been overlooked.

Quite worth repeating Mr carpathian’s astute observation...

“Then quit the forum. No one knows anything but you, anyway.
Start your own with your own rules where you can control every aspect of the narrative. Take your fanboys with you to have an instant audience that will bow to your insanely superior audio knowledge. All of them are new here, anyway.
See? Sometimes there are solutions.
Two, in this instance.”