Townshend Springs under Speakers


I was very interested, especially with all the talk.   I brought the subject up on the Vandersteen forum site, and Richard Vandersteen himself weighed in.   As with everything, nothing is perfect in all circumstances.  If the floor is wobbly, springs can work, if the speaker is on solid ground, 3 spikes is preferred.
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Showing 11 responses by mitch2

I now use the Gaia's under my JL subs.
Springs will work just as well under your subs as under your main speakers.
The physics is the same regardless of the speaker manufacturer.  My experience with spikes vs. decoupling (using Herbies products and later springs) led me to believe in the benefit of decoupling on both suspended wood floors and on grade-supported concrete slabs.  The effect of decoupling/springs could be different and/or more substantial for speakers supported on suspended floors than for those supported on concrete, but IME it is the better performing option as discussed by @oldhvymec below. 
Putting the speak on a plate of steel……would seem to make more sense to me. 
They call them Sound Anchor Stands
Sound Anchors does apparently make stands for 2Cs as shown in this ad.  
I cannot speak to "most people," but my large monitors each weigh 105 pounds and have the densest cabinets of any speakers I have owned. They are mounted to 70-pound Sound Anchor stands that sit on commercial carpet with a thick/dense foam pad over a concrete slab-on-grade. For years, I used Sound Anchor's own hardened steel spikes and later edenSound's Bear Paws to spike the speaker/stands to the concrete floor. I more recently tried decoupling the speakers from the floor by first using Herbie's dBNeutralizer products (giant fat dots and gliders) and then I tried damped springs.  Even with the dense cabinets, heavy stands, and concrete floor, I like the sound of the decoupled speakers on springs better than how they sounded spiked to the floor.  Not a night and day difference, but I perceive improvements in clarity, tone, decay, and the naturalness of the presentation.
This thread is 
going off the rails on a crazy train
Who cares if MC is working on a business deal....people do it all the time.  If he is, he will tell the world about it when he is ready.....big whoop.  What are the damages?  Are there really people here who don't realize that buying stuff solely on the basis of over the top recommendations on an audio forum is a crapshoot at best - caveat emptor.   Does everyone really need a head lemming?

The main things I got out of this thread are that some people like their speakers spiked to the floor, some like them decoupled using springs, and there will be no consensus - shocker. 

The Townshend products are  basically springs, but their refined design offers an easy-to-use solution and relieves the consumer of the need to determine the proper spring size, spring constant, and method of damping needed for individual springs to effectively work with their speakers/equipment - and for that the buyer pays a hefty premium.  I agree with MC on the benefit of using springs under my speakers, but I surely didn't run out and buy fractal wire because he said it sounded good.  On the plus side, I did find it entertaining that the old spike vs. decouple argument gave Robert the opportunity to write another treatise and try to educate us on the one true path.  Normal people wouldn't understand.
@elliottbnewcombjr 
if you are trying to save money, then DIY footers similar to EVPs using Owens Corning 703 or 705 Acoustic Insulation with sheet stainless steel then rubber or felt on either end
My suggestion was based on my suspicion that the AV RoomService Ltd. EVPs are constructed from Owens Coring 703, 704, and 705 Rigid Fiberglass Board that is finished with stainless steel plate and then either felt or rubber mat on either end (side?). The paint used on the fiberglass is said to be flexible.

AV RoomService Ltd. believes in decoupling speakers and gear for best sound and they indicate their EVP product uses a glass spring (e.g., fiberglass) to transform the vibrations into heat (see quote below from  AV RoomService Ltd.).  I was very close to making some EVP clones to try under my subs and main speakers but ended up with springs and didn't see a reason to try something else.  IMO, the most difficult processes would be cutting the board and the steel plate materials cleanly and dimensionally accurate without access to industrial cutting equipment.  

Assuming the fiber board is doing all the work, I wondered how much of the benefit could be derived from a simple DIY project by putting the appropriate amount of board under the speakers resulting in compression in the range of about 10-30%.  However a plate may be needed on at least one side to evenly distribute load if the speakers sit on carpet.

From the AV RoomService Ltd. website:
EVPs de-couple vibration transmission (>90% from 5 Hz. on up). They do so by transforming the mechanical energy into thermal energy. EVPs keep the signal integrity intact by keeping vibrations at bay.

@holmz 
I found the following statement that describes the differences between damping and isolation: 
"While the terms are often used interchangeably, they're two very different processes. Vibration isolation prevents vibration transmission. Vibration damping dissipates vibration energy. It absorbs or changes vibration energy, reducing the amount of energy transmitted through the equipment or structure."
While the above may be technically correct, many designated isolators or dampers seem to do some of both. This was discussed on an engineering forum in describing rubber fan mounts: 
"At the most basic level: Damping removes vibrational energy from the system by converting it to heat energy. Isolation attempts to prevent energy from reaching the isolated component. At particular frequencies, this can be achieved without damping. Rubber mounts are a combination of the two. Their stiffness forms part of the isolation process and their damping removes some vibrational energy."
I suggest reading the AVScience, Ltd. website, associated product reviews, and then coming to your own conclusions. Their website verbiage indicates the EVPs provide "vibration isolation"  but the process they describe (below) is damping:
"They (i.e., EVPs) do so by transforming the mechanical energy into thermal energy."
To me, more important than the marketing description is whether the product works for your intended purpose.  As many of us have learned, you never really know for sure until you try them in your own system.
Looks like a constrained layer platform using some type of acoustic foam, or maybe fiberglass like the Owens corning 703/705, as the primary damping material.  This would be a decoupling solution like Townshend's springs, Herbies elastic material, or the A/V RoomService EVPs.  All of them are basically springs, but they each have different elastic properties and will likely sound different from each other when used under your speakers.  I would simply use your platforms and enjoy your speakers unless you are really curious and feel the urge to try different things.  Only you can tell which product you like best, and for that you must try them in \your own system.
It is helpful that you have taken the time to post your system.  So folks here can give the best answers to your question, it would also be helpful to know about the floor the speakers are supported on - specifically suspended floor over wooden joists, concrete slab on grade, or something else, and also whether there is carpet or not.
I agree with MC, that properly loaded and damped springs are likely to be the sonically best solution given your description of the structure you reside in.  
My situation is a bit different from most here in that I use individual springs under my speakers and subs,  instead of the Townshend or Nobsound products.  However, I went through quite a learning curve and much trial and error before finding the appropriately sized springs.  I figured out how to damp the springs, and it helps that all my speakers are supported on very stiff, solid, and heavy Sound Anchor stands.  In addition to removing the guesswork, the Townshend pods and podiums may be better damped and have the ability to be preloaded.