Thin Line Between Critique and Courtrooms: A Dialogue on the Recent Audiophile Drama

Ah! une autre perspective intéressante...

The only thing that stuck with me was the video, stating " I didn’t sue anybody - though I mentioned litigation twice !!!!!

Finally, my two years of high school French paid off!  

that email from Tekton was wild. The damage was done. Mea Culpa? Non-negotiable? This is bullying, period.

I do not wish Tekton, its employees to lose any business because of this, but if they did, had, it’s not the reviewers' fault. The silver lining is the lesson in communication for all sides.

I didn't watch Erin's review because that particular model of Tekton speaker held no interest for me. But overall, any review that Erin does is objective measurement based first, then he listens to the speaker BEFORE looking at the data to make a subjective opinion about what he is hearing, THEN looks to the data to see if what he is hearing makes sense.  Not a bad way to do things. 

Sadly, there aren't very many American speaker companies in existence, but if Tekton can't properly work with a good reviewer (Erin is NOT a hack) then they are off my list to ever consider.  I was considering their Double Impact, but not anymore. 

I mean, as the YouTube video linked above shows, there are damned few objective reviewers out there and we already have too many subjective ones that at the end of the day, are pretty much meaningless to how any product will sound in our own rooms. They only tell us 1. Yeah, the speaker makes noise, 2. It didn't blow up my amp, and 3. I kind of either like it or found it bright. 

Then because of the threat of "sue, sue, sue" these days many reviewers simply will NEVER publish a negative review. That skews things to the point of useless absurdity.  The only reason to watch videos is to get an idea of what a product looks like and that's about it. 

One thing I do want to correct the Audioholics guy on is that my understanding is on Tekton speakers only the center tweeter in any array acts as a real tweeter. The rest are acting as low distortion midrange drivers thus comb filtering isn't an issue. 

One general problem with YouTube and most (but not all) of the reviewers is how some new product comes out, nearly everyone reviews it within about a 3-month period, offering glowing reviews.  Only later say after a year or more does it come out that, "Well, maybe it isn't all that".  I've seen this happen time and time again from speakers, to streamers, to DACs, to cheap Chi-Fi amps.  It seems like an endless cycle.  In fact, I've almost given up on watching YouTubers at all other than for catching a decent album recommendation or just the entertainment value. 

An issue for anyone selling direct to consumers is that if the consumer has never heard the product, how will they know if it is sounding correctly or if there is an "issue" with it?  Ah for the days of brick and mortar stores...

 Confirmation to me if you want advice on how components sound/perform listen to what multiple sources say on these forums.  Reviewers add what the product is, how it works how its features compare to others, where to buy.  Leave the how it sounds to the audiophiles.  If no feedback exists move on. Measurements are nice to see but I prefer listening with ears.

No walking back those emails from Eric, and I found Erin’s responses to be perfectly reasonable and respectful. That’s just nasty behavior from Eric, and IMO he deserves all the business and reviews he loses because of it especially because he has a history of doing this with other reviewers. He should be ashamed of such behavior although I highly doubt it.

Astonishing that he has been able to dig a big enough hole for himself and his huge speakers….despicable behavior that deserves the blowback.  Erin and all the others he has gone after deserve the last word.

I can no longer find the Tekton YouTube video where Eric states " I didn’t sue anyone" ...it was the beginning of a long response...

Eric has a future working as counsel for someone presently facing 88 felonies.

What happened to subjectivity? 

@nonoise :)

@jl35 "I can no longer find the Tekton YouTube video where Eric states " I didn’t sue anyone" ...it was the beginning of a long response..."

The video has been reposted on ASR in the thread where this whole debacle started (page 81.)  We'll see if it stays up there, but I could see "someone" objecting and complaining about copyright infringement or such.

looks like Eric's 2 videos are back on YouTube...

Speaker owner (Erik, Tekton) posted his response saying he's not "suing", but mentioned "litigation" multiple times ... you make up your own mind.

Erin - the reviewer - actually gave a decent review of the Tekton speaker lent to him by a viewer. For those who don't know, Erin does a two-pronged approach. 1 - he uses objective measurements in his pseudo-anechoic chamber and Klippel machine. 2 - he follows that up with his own subjective opinions about how the speakers sound and perform. I like this approach.

The viewer didn't provide the feet. Erin has since done a second video with the feet which you all can look up. Many others have also mentioned how Tekton basically has these holes for the feet drilled up into the cabinet which leaves holes in the cabinets. Anyway, lots of stuff still going on, but this could have easily been handled with a discussion between the two instead of Erik jumping to "litigation". As others have mentioned in this thread, Erik has done this before to Amir at ASR and maybe to others (not sure) ... seems to be a pattern.

Erik historically hasn't provided measurements, but says going forward he will. Ok, one way to address it, but why couldn't he have just talked it over with Erin and then they could publicly show results of re-testing and discussion. Would have worked out for both, but now many, including myself, want nothing to do with Tekton.

Bought Many components based on Herb's (stereophile) reviews. Have not once been disappointed. He reviews from the heart, tells you what he heard. Best writer/reviewer there is, since Art passed on.

I wish someone would do legal action against me (I could use the notoriety, new Subscribers, and "likes") 🤣

Oh wait...the expression "be careful what you wish for" comes to mind (scratch my 1st sentence).

Once in a while I’ll call out YouTuber’s on their pure and obvious Bullshit (only Canadian reviewers - my ex Home and ex Native Land).

I don’t take my Channel seriously and it’s there to provide a good laugh and sometimes "food for thought".

I’ve met Erin and I understand where he’s coming from. His Bose 901 Video is where I got to know his Channel. It was a fair and honest technical review. And he even admitted liking them for what they do.

Cheers,

Joey G (Time Well Wasted) 😀

Around the same time as the last "big Tekton shill"on this site was about the time I heard a pair of their speakers. We pulled a speaker out of the cabinet and look at the bracing and what was inside..I knew then I wanted no part of ownership .Now after reading the 2 post on the speaker section involving Tekton I realize it was a righteous decision on my part.I never could get past the last time when the owner threatened fellow users on this site with legal action ,so atleast he's consistent.....I never liked the looks,the build,the technology,the fact you can't hear them anywhere to decide if they are actually worthy of dropping hard earned money on..Every time someone defends this brand it's normally "a good speaker for the money".I think that mindset sums it up..

Life is too short. 

Tekton released a video saying he wasn't suing. 

I heard from some enthusiasts that Tekton speakers were good and followed the reviews on them. I found a small pair of prototype Tektons in a vintage audio store and liked them. I emailed the owner and asked what they were and he ignored  query. That was the end of Tekton for me. 

I like it when manufactures like atmosphere comment they are very bright and have years of experience in development. There are many discussions on this forum about room treatments and sound interfearance.there are many reasons as atmosphere has explained. You must listen yourself.i talked to one of the top mcintosh dealers yesterday who said it's all subjective,sound beauty ect .enjoy the music.

I have no love for Amirm or his schick, but Eric is losing more business because of this and what’s going on with Erin’s Corner.  Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!

No Eric shot himself in BOTH feet! Sad but I predict Tekton will be no more by years end. 😔   Hope he can survive.

Indeed...if Tekton is such a great speaker company, (have heard them at RMAF and liked them) the owner wouldn’t have his panties soiled by some less than great reviews. The owners of Tekton speakers love them, end of story. The measurement guy, Amir at ASR appears to be clueless as to what music sounds like... Welcome to 2024 guys....

And folks...If you need "measurements" to prove a product is worthy of your $ maybe hifi isn't a good use of your time and money...Buy a boat or a Harley and move on...Ya can't fix stupid....

Where's @millercarbon when you need hm? I guess contrary to popular opinion all publicity is good publicity. Are you allowed to say they are super ugly? 

Look, if you were the maker of a sports car, and I was reviewer of that car, and I did some road tests with the tires grossly underinflated, with the emergency brake left on while I was driving it, and the test tracks that I used to test it were meant for testing four wheel drive trucks over uneven terrain-- and I ended up writing a scathingly bad review of said sports car-- would the manufacturer of that vehicle have a decent claim that my measurements, taken as they were, were a disparagement of that car brand? You’re damn straight they would.

Now add to this that said car maker came to me and said that the manner in which I reviewed their car was wrong for the type of vehicle I was reviewing and gave me a chance to review the car again with properly inflated tires on a track built for sports car testing-- and I flat out refused -- would that be grounds to take me to court?

Well, from digging into the Tekton review dispute I found that this was essentially the case with Erin’s review. The legal action got both parties back to the table and those speakers will now be remeasured after they are properly setup.

So this is not a case of frivolous lawsuit against a review that some manufacturer didn’t like-- it was about a faulty review that would have harmed the maker’s reputation (such as it is) and likely caused some financial harm to the company.

You want to review products? Then at least set them up properly BEFORE taking your measurements and review them within the context for which they are designed. That is what is called being a pro vs. being a clickbait addicted hack.

@wesheadley It appears that you did not follow all the facts presented by both parties involved and do make comparison that fits the discussed situation like an elephant fits into mini cooper. 

Well, from digging into the Tekton review dispute I found that this was essentially the case with Erin’s review.

@wesheadley No, it’s not the same case at all.  Not even close.  Go back and read the string of emails between Eric and Erin as apparently you haven’t, and look at Erin’s follow up review with the feet properly installed and where the results of both measurements and his subjective findings were basically identical to his initial review, which was not negative in the first place BTW.  Your car analogy couldn’t be further from what’s transpired here and is completely off base.

@wesheadley you analogy is way off and misses pretty much everything in what went down. I suggest you watch Erin’s second review. This is NOT what happened at all.

Tekton lost business because of his bullying and continued threats. Which did not start now, he has been throwing the ketchup bottle at the wall here too way before the Erin review. He may be good at speaker design but not at PR (big word for don’t be a bully)

After hearing Erin experience i must concur with grislybutter...

😊

You're right guys! I didn't read the whole thread. After learning that they were set up wrong, missing feet and holes in the bottom, I ASSUMED that there was a request and a refusal to remeasure based upon the Audioholics video. My bad!

“Alexander has dropped the Mother Of All Bombs on this situation, displaying disrespect towards the reviewing industry, and regarding reviewers as trivial annoyances that can be easily brushed aside..”

source: Tekton debacle

As someone who writes the occasional online product review and doesn’t get paid, I want to retain my rights to freedom of expression, without fear that some bully will try to suppress my speech with the threat of litigation. As long as I remain respectful, and present my opinion truthfully and accurately and without malicious intent, I should be free to say what I please to whomever I please.

@wesheadley I think we all sometimes jump into conclusion. However, not all admit it, unlike yourself 👍.

From another review last October:

As of this date, April 11, 2024, despite promising otherwise, company has NOT provided any measurements of any kind for this speaker. I have repeatedly asked Eric Alexander, company founder and designer, both in emails and in this thread to do so but he has refused. Yet, he has demanded that I delete the review or he would litigate against me and ask for damages. Until such time that he proves with measurements that he has a case, this review will stand.

Bad review? Sue sue sue!

Actually, I think that this whole thing started as a misunderstanding.

The speakers were initially reviewed without feet, leaving four small holes in the cabinet bottom and the tester said that he saw an anomoly in the impedience curve. I don’t know that he originally shared his curve, but what it was was a tiny lump in a portion of the curve where it really doesn’t even matter.

He reported the anomoly and the mfg suggested that he needed to put the feet on to get rid of the shift in the curve.

BUT, I think that they were talking about two completely different thngs!

The feet were installed and the reviewer did infact notice a shift in the impedience curve, just as the mfg said there should be. But, this was not the same shift of which the reviewer was commenting on, and infact, he never even noted this shift due to the lack of feet.  Also, the reviewer and mfg never did agree on what frequency the shift was occuring at.

The reviewer attributed this miniscule bump to an enclosure resonance to which the mfg took offence.

The reviewer then retested the speakers this time also turning them upside down and noted that when turned over, the miniscule bump was now gone, and this is evidence of the top panel being resonant because the weight of the speaker dampened the panel resonance.

But when I look at his data, even upside down, I still see the bump, though it is slightly flatter and broader.

If the reviewer really thought it was a cabinet resonance on the top panel, he should have laid a towel on it and put a cinder block on top of that to dampen this resonance and checked again. For all we know, an interior piece of insulation hangs in a different orientation in the upside down test causing this slight difference.

Erik has no business being the spokesperson for tekton. He should let someone else do it and stay off social media indef.  he should just say his reaction was emotional then just  go away, 

Just my two cents with the caveat that I am a lawyer, recently retired, but I did previous work in tort areas so I understand the law of defamation (slander, libel, slander per se and libel per se). The important things to know about defamation are that (1) if it involves a public figure, it is significantly harder to prove, (2) defamation only involves claims of provable or disprovable facts -- opinions no matter how thinly stated are not defamation as long as they are not based upon provable or disprovable facts (for example saying you hate something is not defamation unless you say you hate it because of a specific provable or disprovable fact), and (3) truth is always an absolute defense. 

I'm glad that @james633 posted the follow up video and I'm late to this party but I watched most of that video and think this is a lot to do about almost nothing. 

No litigation has been initiated as far as I know and Erin was having a cow due to the threats because he is a normal human being and didn't expect that kind of reaction to a generally positive review. Erik overreacted and acted like a bully/jerk for no real reason that I can see. He also impliedly blamed Erin for loss of sales probably without any kind of proof but just using it as a threat. 

Certainly Erik could have reached out civilly to Erin and discussed any suggestions or concerns he had and it appears Erin would have taken such communication seriously. Instead, Erik has created an uproar and cast himself in a negative light. 

There is no real defamation case that I can see (and even cases with good proof of defamation are usually not good cases unless they involve outrageous conduct -- see recent news on those types of cases). Even if Erik could show different measurement results, Erin's results, if not faked, are provable facts and therefore truth -- absolute defense. Any such case filed against Erin would be dismissed long before any trial. If filed in an anti-SLAPP state, attorney's fees would be awarded but hopefully Erik was just making an empty threat. 

I hope this all just simmers down and the YouTubers see there was really no real threat to their livelihood.  

@dz13 wrote: "Any such case filed against Erin would be dismissed long before any trial."

First, thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge of how these things play out.

My understanding is that Erin does not live in an anti-SLAPP state.

I realize this question may not be answerable, but here goes:

If Eric DOES file suit, can you guesstimate a ballpark range for how much it would cost Erin to defend the suit to the point where a judge would dismiss it?

Here is what comes to mind: IF Eric has a lawyer friend willing to take the case despite its apparent lack of merit (and Eric has bragged about having lawyer friends in a recent but now-deleted YouTube video), and/or IF Eric has deep pockets, it seems to me that he could still theoretically "win" by putting Erin in a position where the only course of action Erin can financially afford is to comply with Eric’s demands in return for Eric dropping the lawsuit.

(I think Erin could probably crowdfund his defense, but I'm still curious.)

Please correct any misconceptions you see.

Thanks!

Going forward, let Tekton and it’s big, bad mouthpiece suffer the consequence of being a thin skinned bully in a business that relies upon listener reviews and word of mouth opinion. Bigger and better makers with more money in the game suffered bad reviews on product they nursed & brought to a fickle hit or miss market.

And in a world full of really good speakers, I can easily avoid their typically unattractive offerings- for both the aesthetics and now the whiney litigiousness.

@gents ,

Well said.

Business 101:

A 5% increase in customer loyality doubles the lifetime return on investment.

So, what is the real cost of alienating 10%, 20% or 30% of your potential customer base?

Probably not a good business decision to (intentionally) broadcast negative PR about yourself?

The irony of this self-inflicted wound for Tekton is that the original ASR review was in October 2023. It had gone dormant at 8 pages over just a few weeks, still within that month. Things didn’t start up again until Eric inserted himself into the discussion in February 2024, outraged at a so-so review instead of a glowing one. His threats of litigation followed shortly afterward which did nothing except throw gasoline and a lit match on the thread. The ASR thread is now approaching 100 pages with over 1,900 posts and has spread to a number of other audio web sites (including this one....)

A master class for business owners in how not to handle a so-so review.

Very simply philosophy…MY EGO at any cost!  Tekton is finding out it don’t come cheap as the never Tektoners multiply.  Sooo unnecessary.