Sold Sold Sold

happens all the time.

As a seller, buyers wo say "next week" flake more often than sellers.  Until you put money down, you have no claim

Jerry

As a seller, buyers wo say "next week" flake more often than sellers.  Until you put money down, you have no claim

Totally agree. If it's someone I've dealt with before (and liked), of course I'll give some leeway and try to make the deal work. But otherwise - I'm not a store front, nor a dealer, and I'm selling for a loss. I'm always looking for the easiest, most efficient, low-risk, and hassle-free transaction as a private seller. 

I don't care about your cashflow issues, or globetrotting schedule. That's more likely to make me just shut the conversation off. Let's get the damn deal done. Shoes reversed - if I'm the buyer, I'd pay the cash up FRONT, and ask him nicely to ship in a week (or whatever). I would make (and have made) the same accommodation as seller. But asking a seller to "wait till I get back, then I'll pay you" - is a bridge too far for a stranger. 

@zappas  did you send seller a deposit? If not than he/she was right to sell gear to first person that sent funds. I would have done the same.

@zappas  did you send seller a deposit? 

For private sales, I think even deposits are silly. Do you want it, or not? Do you have the cash, or not? Let's be serious people and not turn this into some financial circus.

zappas, I understand, you didn't reach that agreement with the seller, you just asked the seller to hold the item for you. If this is correct, why are you complaining ?

As for general statements not caring about others' cash flow or whatever, it's a different and a very big subject. In the interest of peace on Audiogon I won't go there.

Don't you think a reply would have been nice.

I think, it would've been.

I am generally a 100 times nicer and accommodating than the transaction partners. If it bothered me, I couldn’t obsess about much bigger things (that I still shouldn’t obsess about)

A reply would be nice, but until money is in hand the product is still available.

I am selling an item. The buyer has agreed to the price, but has not sent the funds. I have reached out twice regarding it and the response is still the same. "I will send it soon." Until I receive the funds the item is still available. No regrets.

I agree with the seller...

"Don't you think a reply would have been nice?"

 

Maybe HE was out of the country.

Since you asked "What you say ?"

So you had a transaction that didn't go the way you wanted you're not the 1st person nor will you be the last that this will happen to.  Aside from having a convenient platform to vent your woes is the outcome going to change that a thread was necessitated.

Did you go to some part of the world without WiFi?

If someone is interested in a product I am selling I want the funds within a day or 2. Otherwise, it is just tire kicking.

Yeah I just had this conversation with someone local I bought a sub from.  We’ve both had similar experiences.  Some online are scammers.  The others it’s hard to figure out.  If I want to sell or buy something I’m straight and to the point.  I don’t reach out and then ghost people.  Sometimes things change and I tell the person not now etc. So at least they know. Civility and respect appear to be in short supply especially online.  

Hey Mark, would you put your personal information though unsecured wifi ?

Next time, if you really want something and you are going away, you buy it and tell him to ship it when you get back. 

the only part that is wrong "on so many levels" here is you are naming the seller, making it look like they did something wrong. They did not and you shouldn't. 

+1 @carlsbad2 

@zappas 

 

I am in complete agreement with others here. Until money changes hands, it's still for sale. I don't think this thread went the way you anticipated.

I was on the other end of a similar situation. A local dealer in used equipment had just received a vintage amp and preamp that I wanted. His tech had not checked it yet. When I asked about it he said another customer was interested, but wanted a home trial and had to be sure his wife liked it.

I told him I wanted to buy it. When he asked if I wanted to hear it first, I said "No, as long as it works, I’ll buy it and pay cash." We agreed on the price and shook hands.

I had the equipment a few days later after the tech made sure it was working properly. I handed the seller cash.

You are either a buyer or someone who might buy it

A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush. 

Hey Mark, would you put your personal information though unsecured wifi ?

that makes no sense. You can be on a public wifi in Minsk (why one would go to Minsk is another question) and take care of business without exposing any of your personal info. Not to mention your communication is encrypted, you have to be very stupid to let your data be stolen. E.g. text your pin code. Even your email is via SSL unless it’s some horrible provider

that makes no sense. You can be on a public wifi in Minsk (why one would go to Minsk is another question) and take care of business without exposing any of your personal info. Not to mention your communication is encrypted, you have to be very stupid to let your data be stolen. E.g. text your pin code. Even your email is via SSL unless it’s some horrible provider

Yep. Keep your OS and browser up to date, and send PayPal (or whatever) payment securely from anywhere. Or better yet, use dedicated payment apps on your phone. But really, you should have already paid for the item you want up front. Looks like OP is the one wrong on so many levels. Hopefully he's learned from this :) 

What ever happened to a gentleman agreement ?

First one with cash gets it. Period. As a seller though, I would make that clear to the potential buyer up front

When you told him you'd be away and buy it when you returned, did he respond and say that's fine with him and he'd hold it for you? If so, I think he was being a jerk. If not, I'd side with the seller. 

I honestly don't know why my comment was deleted. But absolutely don't care.

Sorry, deleted it in error while Beta testing a new Space Force Computer.

 

DeKay

Sure thing! Enjoy your vacation. This is what was said.

What ever happened to a gentleman agreement ?

You want to know what happened? The internet, that’s what. Not only do we have keyboard commandos who spout off crap they’d be scared to say when you are standing in front of them. But we also have tire kickers and broke losers who swear they’ll buy it next week. After you encounter one or two of those you become jaded and don’t believe any of it.

If I don’t know you, or have at least met you face to face, there’s no gentleman’s agreement coming from me.

Hello All! 

This is iLove audio. Please read below I have copy and pasted the whole conversation between me and member Zappas - there was never any deals or agreement. Member Zappas simply said "I'm on vacation for awhile, I'll see what's happening when I get back." If anyone is curious, I can provide screenshots of this convo. Thanks!

Zappas - March 4

Hi, does this play amazon hd with an android tablet or phone ?
Thanks, Chris

Me - March 5

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the message. I had to reference online search. Here's what I found:

AURALiC Aries devices can play Amazon Music on Android devices using the Lightning DS app or other Open Home compatible software. 

AURALiC Aries devices use the Lightning Streaming Platform to connect to music services like Amazon Music. 
The Lightning DS app is a control app that allows users to play and control Amazon Music Unlimited. 
Open Home compatible software, such as BubbleUPnP, Kazoo, and Lumin, can also be used to control AURALiC devices. 
AURALiC devices can be set up and configured using any web browser on a PC or Mac. 
AURALiC devices are Roon-Ready network players, which means they can play seamlessly as endpoints in a Roon system.

Zappas - March 5

Thanks for the in depth answer. I'm on vacation for awhile, I'll see what's happening when I get back.
Chris

Me - March 5

Sure thing! Enjoy your vacation

Zappas - March 13

Let's do this deal.

Me - March 14

Hi Chris,

I'm sorry but the unit was sold last week. There's another one listed on USaudiomart for $1100. 

Best
Sean

Zappas - March 14

Thanks, I guess I'm the ahole in this deal.

Zappas - March 14

$400 Is a bit more don't u think?

Me - March 14

I think you have the message crossed with someone else. Have a great day!

Zappas - March 14

No, your the 1 who sold the auralic and didn't even let me know. Not sure what your smoking.

Me - March 14

What are you talking about? You inquired about the G1 a week ago and it's now sold. I kindly directed you to a different listing that I found. 

The G1 was sold for $1395 and you said something about $400 is a bit much? What?

Again, there was no deal ever made and I sold it to the next buyer for $1395. I even spent the time and looked for another listing for him which priced lower at $1100. But he responded rudely and seems confused, mentioning something $400 was a bit much... See below again

Me - March 14

Hi Chris,

I'm sorry but the unit was sold last week. There's another one listed on USaudiomart for $1100. 

Best
Sean

Zappas - March 14

Thanks, I guess I'm the ahole in this deal.

Zappas - March 14

$400 Is a bit more don't u think?

Me - March 14

I think you have the message crossed with someone else. Have a great day!

Zappas - March 14

No, your the 1 who sold the auralic and didn't even let me know. Not sure what your smoking.

Sounds like the buyer was in the wrong here, why this is misunderstood by the buyer is beyond me.

sounds like this bullet bounced right back into poster's face

This is every bit as much in the seller’s favor as I imagined. @love4audio you’re a solid guy, who went above and beyond in trying to help. Amazing that OP would come here and besmirch you about this experience. 1 more guy I’m not dealing with in the future.

@carlsbad2 @mulveling @rsf507 @inna @grislybutter @thriftyaudio @jl35 @facten @qjm101 @markalarsen @yyzsantabarbara @bassbuyer @loomisjohnson @ozzy62 ​@dekay @larsman @jperry @mclinnguy @ajelec @daledeee1 @avanti1960 @digitalvapor @10timps @fishbrain47 @elrod @usetubes @allenf1963

Hi Everyone,

Thanks everyone for the inputs. I have impeccable feedback and sales record. Please see the whole conversation above between me and Zappas (copy and pasted), I left no lines out. I also made screen shots. Members Zappas Rant is clearly based on lies.

1. He never said "I would buy when I get back" Instead, he said, "I’m on vacation for awhile, I’ll see what’s happening when I get back."

He never even made an offer

2. He never "emailed 3 times"

3. and when he did message after 8 days - on 3/13, it was an abrupt "Let’s do this deal" I responded the very next day.

Be very Careful of this buyer! I will certainly block him for wasting everyone’s time.

@grislybutter

Even your email is via SSL unless it’s some horrible provider

Not my understanding! The ability to encrypt emails end-to-end using public-key digital certificates has been around for decades, but hardly anyone uses it! If they did, only the intended recipient (the one who has the corresponding private key) would be able to read the email.

In fact, the European Union recommended that all business emails should be encrypted after the discovery of the ECHELON surveillance program at the turn of the century. The US was spying on business emails.

Digital certificates can also be used to verify the author of a document such as an email, and guarantee it has not been changed in any way. Again, hardly anybody uses this facility!

Secure Socket Layer (SSL) also uses public key infrastructure (digital certificates) to establish encrypted links, usually between a web browser and a web server. Mostly the web server is identified with a digital certificate and the protocol changes from http: to https:. Optionally, the browser can also be uniquely identified with a digital certificate but in my experience this facility is also rarely used.

Email is usually sent over the internet in plain text using the simple mail transport protocol smtp:. Email is not inherently reliable and is open to a wide variety of attacks. Like Ethernet, on its own it does not even guarantee delivery.

Email could be made supremely secure, but hardly anybody bothers with public key digital certificates unless they run a web server.  The fundamental issue is that the person who pays for a digital certificate is not the one who benefits.  If I want to send you an encrypted email, you have to own the certificate,  But if you want to be sure it really came from me, and has not been changed, then I am the one that has to have a certificate..  

@love4audio -- I'm not complaining with this response, I'm just curious.  You tagged me in your reply above, but I never responded to this thread.  I'm just curious why you tagged me?  Again, not complaining, just head scratching.

If the seller explicitly agreed to hold it a week, then to do otherwise is lying - I’d have to agree with the buyer. I hold honesty and integrity in the highest regard.

If the buyer wanted to inconvenience the seller to wait a week "for free" thinking that he has earned some goodwill so deserves this special period, then I agree with the seller.

For the seller, it’s better to have cash now to move onto other things, than to wait later with the increased risk of non-performance.

@richardbrand you are conflating all these issues, like SMTP and SSL, all major email providers encrypt the messages, meaning no one else can decrypt it and read it during the transportation of the packages.

If it wasn't the case all hackers would be billionaires but at least multi-millionaires.4

Email is usually sent over the internet in plain text

No it is not. It is encrypted. If it was sent in plain text, you would have 99 out of a 100 politicians blown into a zillion pieces by scandals. 

@dekay ...Spaced Forced Puters have to be approached with care and tongs....

...btw, Don't push that plate next to what appears to be a sort of cube CPU.

Yeah, that one, the Teleport Discriminator....pushing it triggers a 'random surface site clear' transport if the 'cpu' is about to implode...

You'll be OK, a random safe distance and Not in a wall....where you Were, however....

Hope you have your wallet... 

Ever try selling something of Facebook Marketplace?  For every one legit buyers there are 10 ghosts. That's business in 2025 on the internet.  Not the same as a handshake in 1960.

The OP is a nutball for thinking the seller had any obligation to hold this unit based on the above conversation.  Why didn't he buy the unit before he left town? Just ridiculous! 

Time to put the thread to bed.

As often happens with these whiner woe is me threads the other side of the story comes out and all that was accomplished is the Op losing whatever prior perceived credibility he/she may have had.

@carlsbad2

yep …+1 ….bigtime .

This is a just a basic informal and rudimentary bulletin board forum, with a first come, first serve mantra, “You snooze = You lose….. .”

Seller does not know you and owes you nothing in the interim when there was no deal yet.

Lesson learned: Buyer could have and should have provided a good faith EFT cash deposit upfront to support any deferred deal and delivery terms. Every bona fide deal requires both an offer AND an acceptance of terms,

TAKEAWAY

“ …in God we trust, but everyone else pays cash …”

 

I think @zappas (OP)  should send @love4audio a thank you note and small token of appreciation for saving him $400

This has at least been educational wrt on-line sales:

• Communication - clarity, mutual agreement, and confirmation are necessary to avoid misunderstandings
• Show Me the Money- the best way to secure an on-line transaction is to send payment as soon as the terms are agreed on
• On-line Etiquette - Post your forum question in the spirit of gaining knowledge, without naming names, and without the intent of a preemptive strike to assign guilt 

OP...As the old line goes "You Got Stoned and You Missed It"....wait for another on Audiogon or Reverb and move on dude. The seller sold it to a person ready to buy NOW, not his/her fault you delayed.