I mean, it's really not that good of a conductor when it comes right down to it.
If you do use banana plugs though, I prefer the WBT method, where you hard crimp a sleeve onto the wire, and then you screw that to the connector. IMO, this is the method that is most reliable and will yield a corrosion free connection for the longest period of time.
I can see how spades would work better - using the pressure of the screw for connection. That is if you can get good compression between the wire and the plug. With banana you're relying on spring pressure.
Solder was originally designed to be a conductor junction glue, and people who assembled electronics (tube stuff at the time) were reminded of that point. That ’metal to metal contact’ was the only real conductive pathway.
Solder evolved into being as a conduction interface, which was an advantage in some ways and a degradation in others.
With regard to AC power connectivity, the proper way to do things is to loop and lock the wire conductor to the terminal point, and then use solder as an anchor. You will see this done in properly made audio equipment and you will see it being done in all older tube gear in all connectivity junctions. It’s kinda the law of the land in that area of connectivity. Yet you see this critical safety point being volatilized all over the dang place. It’s why a raw AC connector will generally have a hole in the connection terminals in the inner chassis mount side of it. If one is not using pressure clip type connectivity for internal AC wiring and is using solder, they must use, must use ...ac connection terminals with the wire loop hole in said connector designs. And then loop that wire through the hole and then solder. An alarming amount of audio gear from various places violates this safety standard.
Circuit boards were a step up in ability to be mass produced for electronics in general, but circuit boards have been a sound quality degradation issue for quality audio equipment, overall.
Some people hear the noise created by these junctions and materials dissimilarity issues... and think and hear of it as an expanded base of micro detail, but they’ve never heard the difference of the exact same circuit assembled in free air with full sized components done in metal to metal contact methods --vs being done via circuit boards.
Mass assembled circuits based on solder and circuit boards was a price race to the bottom.
This most definitely happened in the world of audio as well.
In audio, the end result...was a industry wide loss of a higher plateau of sound quality and a near permanent mistake in how people listen and perceive, being introduced.
How does one walk into a factory, a show room or a trade show display room and say out loud, ’everything here could sound better but...now exists as a permanent step down in audio quality’.
You’d be be tossed out on yer butt, at the very least, as your astute comment makes 99% of all the audio business models non functional in sales, if they followed your moment of truth. Doing it right for some (surface mount digital and analog) is flat out impossible, and the others, the precious few remaining... might suffer a 25-50% to as high as a 100% retail price increase.
Its a thing.. a stinky thing.... dead and run over a long time ago.... that sits there in the middle of the audio road. There are ways of making audio gear sound better and this is one of them. Many (of these quality improvement methods) cost more than ’normal’ methods of design, in order to implement them. The sales department, accounting department... and general market viability - likes circuit boards.
Once you’ve heard and recognized such a revelation in audio, you likely won’t go back, even if it limits your purchases and you have to work harder and spend more to find them. It’s not a thing for fanatics, it’s a simple case of going back to what was originally better. It’s a norm in functionality trying to hold it’s ground...and is about sidestepping the modern downgrade.
I have tried several combinations of various speaker cable bananas and there are many really good brands available that don't use solder. With that said I have had a lot a really good success using KLE Innovations Bananas and WBT Silver solder. The bananas don't look like there is much to them, however, after break-in they sound excellent. There is also an advantage using them if needed, one banana can lock into a second banana (bi-wire). https://www.partsconnexion.com/kle-innovations-banana-plug.html https://kleinnovations.com/kle-innovations-klei-products/klei-harmony-banana/klei-classic-harmony-ba... I was not able to locate the Audiogon forum but there is a bit written about them.
Initially fine, then degradation sets in over time.
bare cleaned wire (literally cleaned to de-oxidize/prep)
metal sleeve over wire
crimp, hard
solder as filler in areas of the crimp still exposed to air
screw down this connection in spade/banana proper.
That’s one way to do it, and it is a way to do it that might last 20-30-40 years and need a bit of cleaning every now and then, if done with good mechanically and electrically connectors and the right metallic interfaces.
EG, neutrik speak-on connectors are supplied this way, parts wise.... and they expect you to commit to something similar to the above scenario. Users of speak-ons will do many times do this... but very few do the solder fill bit.
If your wire is inexpensive per foot, clean off about 2 inches or so of bare wire strands, then twist them so they are tightly packed and contacting each other, tie one end down and stretch out the other, solder soak that section that has wire to wire strand contact, then cut the excess end off, and have this stretch bit of solder and self-contacted strands (no wider than the original strands/set)....then insert the bulk soldered bit into the connector and screw that down. Just another way of doing it.
How do people feel about set screws in bananas or spades?
Not by themselves, again, in a gold plated copper crimp sleeve is ideal. However, again the issue is that in the cheapest types the threads are too coarse and the material is too hard to set properly. I've seen lots of cheap examples that come loose very quickly.
As a challenged audiophile, if solder is not good then why when I had to replace a tweeter on my old Infinity Kappa 8's the connecting wires were attached with solder? Curious as what the high end speakers use to make the connection.
A few thoughts: As alluded to above solder comes in many alloy formulations. The good old wire looped into a screw down terminal alleviates one connection point. Silver and silver oxides conduct better than gold. As to what everyone prefers...
As alluded to above solder comes in many alloy formulations. The good old wire looped into a screw down terminal alleviates one connection point. Silver and silver oxides conduct better than gold.
And none of it is as good as a cold weld for current.
@ erik_squires I'm not proffessing expertise in welding specification, but it would seem to me that the usual crimp connection afforded by audio terminations is not a true cold weld (vacuum, pressure, etc.) At any rate once a connector is attached it still goes through another pressure fit connection of some 'modest' pressure. As an aside looking at construction techniques employed in vintage analog test equipment (tektronix etc.) is fun.
Crimped hard and soldered with enough heat to make the solder suck into the joint. No problems doing it this way for almost 50 years. Set screws have no place on my banana plugs. I use one of those big irons that have enough mass to pretty much instantly heat the plug to the point it needs to be. I've had some bad outcomes with plugs that can't be soldered. It takes a while, but eventually it seems to happen, so I do the right thing and don't have to worry about it.
If I am following here, you are suggesting "tinning/soldering" a section of wire, and then putting that soldered section into a screw terminal and then screwing it down? That appears to be what you are suggesting?
If this is what you are suggesting, then please, No One Do This. This is about the worst thing you can do. Solder is soft, and not only compresses, but flows under pressure. It is virtually a given that you connection will loosen. This is why you never tin wires before putting them into screw terminals, (or why those terminals often seem to loosen for some people).
teo_audio1,249 posts11-22-2018 10:50am ..... If your wire is inexpensive per foot, clean off about 2 inches or so of bare wire strands, then twist them so they are tightly packed and contacting each other, tie one end down and stretch out the other, solder soak that section that has wire to wire strand contact, then cut the excess end off, and have this stretch bit of solder and self-contacted strands (no wider than the original strands/set)....then insert the bulk soldered bit into the connector and screw that down. Just another way of doing it.
For electrical contact and reliability, you cannot beat a crimp connection, assuming the crimp connection is done with a proper ratcheting crimper, not the $10-15 crimpers you get from the hardware store. It forms a metal to metal bond and evacuates the contact areas of air preventing oxydation. The crimper has the match the terminal design as well.
Silver solder, the stuff we use that melts near typical soldering temperatures, is not pure silver, it is not even mostly silver. It will have <5% silver in it. The rest is tin, and copper usually, but you can still find some with lead too. If you made a really good crimp connection with a proper tool, solder is not going to improve it much. If you did not make a good connection, it will. Solder does make connections more brittle and can lead to strands breaking.
If you really believe EMI is a problem, and often it can be within equipment itself, especially when dealing with large bandwidths and high impedance nodes, then point to point wiring will create more pathways for the reception and generation of EMI. Anyone who has done high speed amplifiers and/or power electronics is always using the mantra to keep loop sizes as small as possible, and that requires a PCB.
When it comes to termination I tend to use eutectic solder when attaching RCA's and Banana plugs
For mains cables I crimp first and then solder a spade connector because I want to be certain the wire is not going to come out of the plug under any circumstances. I also found it sounded the best as opposed to bare wire and crimp only.
I have tried both solder and screw mount for spades and bananas, but I now use a very specific Bananas that has to be soldered.
Eutectic solder is a solder made of 37 percent lead and 63 percent tin and is also called 63/37 solder. Eutectic solder melts at a single temperature, which makes it preferable to non-eutectic solder. It makes a superior joint.
I have compared it to 4% silver solder and prefer the eutectic solder.=- it makes a nicer joint
All solder pretty much is eutectic. All eutectic means is that it melts all at once at a temperature lower than its constituent parts. I am not aware of any common solders that do not do this.
Tin-Lead solder melts at a lower temperature than other solder types, and as well, it tends to wet components better than other solders. It is also less brittle. That is probably why you like it. The wetting part can be fixed with other solders with better fluxes to some degree.
If you can, connect the clean bare wires to the speaker terminals. All connectors, paste or any applied coating will degrade the signal.
But, if that is not possible make the connection with the best metallurgy available. No solder, paste, etc. Crimping would be the best in my opinion. You want to minimize any substance between the connections.
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