WTH?
I recommended the Sonus Faber Lumina III or possibly finding a deal on the Gen.1 Sonetto III but my original reply is GONE?
Seeking speakers under $3K for 10x12 ft room and driven by 20wpc tube amp
I currently have a pair of Apogee Acoustics Centaur Minors driven by a new Black Ice integrated tube amp. The small but dedicated listening room means I’m doing near-field listening with me and the speakers forming a 6’ triangle. As you might expect, these speakers have terrific midrange but at 85dB sensitivity they are a bit difficult to drive and feel limited in dynamics. The room is acoustically treated.
I almost exclusively listen to small combo acoustic jazz and vocals and I’m seeking recommendations for something easier to drive and more dynamic that provides a more “palpable presence” of the musicians when played at louder levels. Prefer small floorstanders for aesthetics but not essential and preferably a brand where I might have a chance to audition them (I’m in SoCal). Also open to used (e.g. something like Wilson Cubs). TIA!
p.s. thanks for the Sonus faber suggestion.
102 responses Add your response
My room is same dimensions, but just weirdly configured, and my Legacy Studio HD speakers so awesome in here. I do run the smallest REL sub though to flesh things out some for movies and shows and some music. |
I have a similar size room, but no treatment. I ended up with Neat Acoustics Petite. If you are considering a British style speaker, I would give them a try. I have driven them with an LTA Z10 and an Orchid Audio GAN amp. They have some interesting floor standers. I've had the Omega Super Alnico's. I enjoyed them for Jazz. For me, they definitely needed a sub. Sonus Faber or Serblins are on my list to try at some point. |
I am listening to a pair of refurbished Acoustic Research AR-2ax in my office, a similarly sized room to yours, essentially 6’ triangle. You could call them large bookcase, or compact 3 way. They have level controls for both the tweeters and mids to balance their output in any space. I drive mine with a Luxman 10wpc tube amp. The 10" woofer produces full range without over-powering you when close. My prior Wharfedale 225’s 6.5" woofers needed a sub to avoid sounding small. They sound so good, I restored a 2nd pair for my Garage/Shop system. I bought new level controls and new tweeters for that pair, and new grille cloth, everything is available for these. A restored pair of AR-2ax, I would get the stands he shows them on also |
Look at used Klipsch Forte IIIs, should fit your price range. I also have a 6-7 foot listening triangle and a 20 wpc integrated tube amp w 300b driving 845 tubes. I usually listen 55-60 dB levels, not too loud but loud enough to feel bass punch and textures of detail. I’ve integrated a 12 inch Klipsch subwoofer at a level where you can hear/feel the bass, but can’t “see” the subwoofer. System synergy important, as are room acoustics and speaker placement along with good, but not necessarily expensive interconnects and cables. When the lights are down low, and the tubes aglow, the speakers disappear and you’d swear Grace Mahya is in the room with you. |
You are overthinking this with this, size room 20 watts will work with nearly any loudspeaker.
Even with a low efficiency monitor 20 watts will get you plenty loud enough
Look at a pair of Elac carinas 85db sensitivity will be loud at 85db the roon is very small and 85db is plenty loud for such a small room. so you can look at nearly any loudspeaker. I would be more concerned, with impedance and current deliver, however most 2 way compact, and affordable, monitors will be easy to drive.
Dave and Troy Audio intellect NJ Elac, Legacy, Kef Atc , Dali, Cabasse, dealers
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I would strongly recommend one of the smaller Revel PerformaBE speakers. The performance-to-dollar value of the Revel PerformaBe speakers is off-the-charts!!! Beryllium tweeters, super tight, deep bass, 90 db, and beautifully constructed. The combination of the smooth Beryllium tweeters and your tubes, would be a match made in heaven. For your room, I would definitely go with one of Revel’s small PerformaBE floor standers. You’ll most definitely get your money’s worth with Revel speakers . |
Appreciate all the responses so far. Having been away from this hobby for 30 years, I’ll admit I haven’t heard of half the brands listed. But there should be at least a handful of stores in the area available for demos. @freediver, my original post title was getting cut off (apparently the “<“ character screwed things up) so I asked Tammy to delete and I reposted. @audiotroy, the Apogees have 85 dB sensitivity and are 6 ohms nom, yet I’m cranking the volume well past noon to even start getting realistically “loud” levels. I will be getting an spl meter just to gauge myself, but my objective is to find speakers that offer more of that “palpable presence”, if you will. |
I do not think 20 wpc is enough for low efficiency speakers in a small room, just not loud enough for some material/occasions. Some peaks will be out of gas. Low efficiency speakers, I would want a 30-45 wpc tube amp, and that's too much heat for a small room, so, rather than solid state amp, I would go for efficient speakers, a 10" woofer helps. Let's not forget the Iron Law, for Bass, you gotta move a lot of air. I prefer larger woofer to smaller 'long throw' and ports, and using corners to get more out of a 6-1/5" (or even smaller), or use a single non-directional self-powered sub like I did with the Wharfedale's 6.5" vented. You want to remove the low frequencies from your main low powered amp, so neither the amp nor the speakers try to produce low bass. I am enjoying my 10 wpc tube amp, just enough with the 90db efficiency AR-2ax. More power would be nice on rare occasions, or more efficient speakers would be smartest, but what might sound as good as these AR-2ax's. |
chenry OP is planning for a small 6’ listening triangle, that might be a bit close to that model JBL. He mentioned a new Black Ice integrated tube amp, I presume, like me, tube heat in small room, a low powered one. I see they have 12 wpc and 25 wpc models. I never heard Black Ice. My office, for years I used a Tandberg SS Receiver I liked; after I broke it a Carver Cube SS for years (both from Harvey’s NYC used shelf), because I found my Vintage Fisher 30 wpc mono blocks too much heat for my office. Redesigned in 2019 for low power tubes/imaging placement the Little Luxman 10 wpc tube amp I took a chance on is the lowest power I ever had, and I subsequently lucked into acquiring a restored pair of AR-2ax Speakers because of a ’nostalgia’ discussion here. I got them for downstairs, assumed too big for the office, but thought, why not hear them with the Luxman compared to the Wharfedales and self-powered sub. So darn good I kept them here, gave the Wharfedales to my son, and got the 2nd pair of AR-2ax’s I restored myself, those standing ear height horizontal on shelves in my work area in the Garage/Shop system. When in my office (retired now) I always think of Cousin Brucie (AM) and Alison Steele (FM) as my original pair were new in early 1968, working thru the nights while at college in Brooklyn (Pratt Institute)1966-1970. I was ransacked, they were small enough for the thieves to get them out the window, I always missed them. I finally re-found the AR-2ax specs, they are 91.5db sensitivity https://stereonomono.blogspot.com/2014/05/acoustic-research-ar-2ax.html
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If you find an AudioNote AN-K or J in your price range, buy them, perfect for a small room as they are designed for corner placement. Very musical speaker and perfect for low power tube amps in your power range, basicaly they were designed for 20wpc. Personnaly i find them better then the harbeths, Spendors at similar size. just finding a set in your budget will be the hard part, if you can stretch a bit it would be worth it. Like these ones, note canadian $ so take 32% off and leave the standes behind should get you very close. Audionote UK AN/JD hemp speakers with stands For Sale - Canuck Audio Mart
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I've been through all sorts of speakers from B&W to Verity. 20 years ago I bought a pair of Devore Super 8's and loved them. Kept them a year and went through the line, moved to Verity, Harbeth etc. back and forth, Daedalus, etc... I recently bought an old pair of Super 8's locally, intending to set them up in the basement. Ended up selling the Harbeth's, taking the old Leben out of the closet, and here I am feeling like 30 years old again. Might get an 18 inch sub to add to my SVS 3000 (It's tough to find a speaker with good mids and bass for under $20k), buy a new server and take the family on vacation. Next stop, Rockport lol. |
@ristretto , I use a set of the Fritz loudspeakers (previously suggested) in a space of very similar dimensions, using a 5 Watt/channel tube amp and a powered subwoofer. No worries making plenty of volume and I never clip the amp. |
I am surprised nobody has recommended a single driver speaker for your small space and low power amplification. High sensitivity is a perfect match with smaller space and low power. Some great choices such as: Charney Audio (using Voxativ drivers) Voxativ Razz Cube Personally, I have a pair of Charney Maestros with Voxativ 2.6 drivers similar to your arrangement, an 8' equilateral triangle, driven by Airtight 300B amp (8 watts). Outstanding sound. Replaced Wilson Sabrinas which are no slouch! |
@atmasphere , which Fritz speakers do you have?
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OP,the Fritz Carbon 7SE will be too much for your size room unless you plug the port,changing the tonal balance..One of his smaller models would be fine but now your looking at stand mounted speakers & not small floor standers..IMO there are better choices for stand mounted like the Sonus Faber Sonetto 2G2 or a gently used pair of Harbeth M30.1's... |
Gareents: the Omega Super Alnico Monitors are full-range ("single driver") and a similar floorstander variant, the Junior Alnico XRS, each 95dB sensitive and each at or below the OPs specified price. He could drive them with modest-power tube amps. I would recommend a sub with the SAM. 6-foot separation is a challenge for any speaker to expect good sound staging. If he wants to push to the corners, sealed cabinets as in the Vandersteen VLR-CT or Studio Electric M4 offer options but are significantly less sensitive at 87-88dB, but each still close to his price. If he also wants to audition at a store, that is increasingly an issue. Omega only sells direct as does Studio Electric, in a big market like LA, you might find a shop with the Vandersteens. |
I attended the usual weekly Zoom meeting of my audio club last week and came away with what I think is valuable advice on a speaker that would suit your room perfectly, Here’s the story I heard: a fellow audiophile member had some Danish speakers in for review which he liked very much. When he had finished his review and returned the speakers he was instantly aware that his Harbeth* speakers sounded dull and unmusical in comparison. The difference was so obvious that he immediately decided he had to sell his Harbeths and buy the Danish speakers, which he did. He is very happy with the change and kept emphasizing how much more musical the Danish speakers were. And, interestingly, the Danish speakers cost about half what the Harbeth’s cost. Perhaps that’s because the Danish speakers are sold direct unlike Harbeth speakers which are sold through distributors and audio shops which raises their cost to the consumer. It also turns out that Harbeth speakers are built to a price point and contain el cheapo parts in their crossovers; the Danish speakers have an opposite philosophy in that their speakers are designed with the best parts that will perfect the way they sound. Also the Danish speakers are shipped free all over the world and have a 60 day trial period. The speakers are Buchardt S400 MKII. They are perfectly suited to your smallish room.
* I’m not absolutely certain of the model no of his Harbeth speakers I think they were 30.2s |
Another vote for the Vandersteen VLR-CT. I’ve heard them many times at John Rutan’s place, AudioConnection. Those plus a sub or two is all you might ever need. |
There is a verified dealer listing here for a new pair of the Spendor A1 stand mount speakers. For the asking price of $1100.00. I doubt you would go wrong with them. Add some nice stands and you will be well below your budget! BTW, I have owned them! Information! https://spendoraudio.com/wp-content/uploads/Spendor-A-Line-Product-Data-Sheets_A1_2023.pdf |
OP your speakers description is Chenry s Omega Super Alnico recommending they are superb on vocal, and very musically dynamic.If you have budget nice sub Rel from TMRaudio is listed.My friend surprised me to listen to them. This Alnico are the speakers to make me realize my system is not even musical.They did challenge me to work hard on my system. Only problem Your only best bet is used. Maybe the waiting period is now too long or Lois is even taking order now. Good luck to you. |
@yogiboy , the specs say they only require 25wpc which means they must be an easy load to drive, yet their sensitivity is rated as 84. I guess it is due to the impedance 8 ohm nominal) only dropping to 6.6? |
which Fritz speakers do you have? @immatthewj I have the Carbon 6s. |
@immatthewj Those non ported speakers would be fine in the size room and type of music that the OP listens to! He should make an offer on them!! |
Fritz Carbons would not be too much for the room. I have a similar size room and use the Rev 7se. I have port plugs and when I use them it does not diminish the tone of the speakers. I usually have them unplugged and they work well for me. I also have a pair of Falcon Acoustics Q7s that might work for you. They are a slightly deeper cabinet version of the LS 3/5a. They would work well with the music you like but I’m not sure about the amp pairing. They are only 83-84db sensitivity but are 15 ohm. |