Fritz is a great choice!! Like a lot of 2-way monitors, they do best in reasonably well treated rooms. More reflective rooms will tilt the balance towards the treble. To really hear them shine at least a little absorption around the room will really help.
Seeking speakers under $3K for 10x12 ft room and driven by 20wpc tube amp
I currently have a pair of Apogee Acoustics Centaur Minors driven by a new Black Ice integrated tube amp. The small but dedicated listening room means I’m doing near-field listening with me and the speakers forming a 6’ triangle. As you might expect, these speakers have terrific midrange but at 85dB sensitivity they are a bit difficult to drive and feel limited in dynamics. The room is acoustically treated.
I almost exclusively listen to small combo acoustic jazz and vocals and I’m seeking recommendations for something easier to drive and more dynamic that provides a more “palpable presence” of the musicians when played at louder levels. Prefer small floorstanders for aesthetics but not essential and preferably a brand where I might have a chance to audition them (I’m in SoCal). Also open to used (e.g. something like Wilson Cubs). TIA!
p.s. thanks for the Sonus faber suggestion.
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@atmasphere , I know that we have talked about this before; I note that the sensitivity on those is rated at 88 (which does not seem as if it should be incredibly easy to drive going by that number alone) but I beliewve you said that you are only using 4wpc and the specs listed say 5wpc so I assume that what makes them easy to drive must be that the impedance must not drop very low? |
@immatthewj Yes. The amp I'm using makes 5 Watts at full power. It has no problems driving the speaker at all. I use the 8 Ohm taps. |
@atmasphere , I remember in a previous discussion (or perhaps more thyan one discussion) wew were talking about the reason high sensitivity speakers would be better for low level listening or with higher powered amps. In one or more of those discussions I had kind of got the impression that you favored speakers that had a sensitivity up in the 90s. Which makes me assume that the Fritz speakers, although have a listed sensitivity of 88, must not drop too far below their 8 ohm impedance? And if I am correct about my above assumption, does that also mean that how low the impedance actually drops (not the listed nominal impedance) is as important or maybe more important than the listed sensitivity rating? |
@immatthewj The problem is if you want a small speaker that can play any bass its going to be sealed and simply won't be very efficient. I chose the Fritz because they get good comments, are an easy load with no weird impedances or phase angles, are built nicely and are compact.
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Very happy owner of Fritz Rev 5 SE’s. They are the runt of the litter but certainly don’t sound small. The Scanspeak drivers are superb and they are easy on power. I drive them with a Raven Blackhawk 20W Tube amp barely turning the volume knob sitting 8’ back. Surprisingly nice low volume bass without a sub for their size. Also, Owner Fritz is an exceptionally nice guy with a great trial period. |
Yes those Spendor A1s are a great deal, but with their sensitivity I’m still concerned about its sense of scale or dynamics. I have a pair of vintage Aurum Cantus standmounts rated at 87dB and 8 ohms and I still can’t get a sense of a live performance at front row center, if you will, despite the small room. And the volume knob is already 80% of max. My phone app tells me I’m listening at 70-80dB spl. |
All my speaker designs have series crossovers which use smaller and far fewer parts than regular crossovers and are a much easier load on the amplifier compared to other loudspeakers.
Google any loudspeaker and see if they have a Stereophile review and go to the measurements page- the impedance and phase curves are all over the place verses a series crossover loudspeaker which gradually rises and the phase curve is mainly a straight line.
I have 8 integrated tube amps with EL84, EL34, 6L6, 6550, KT88 & KT90 power tubes with 12 to 80 watts per channel and a 300B amp @ 8 watts, a EL34 single power tube amp @ 5 watts and a Decware EL84 amp with 2.3 watts per channel that drives all of my speakers great in my 14 x 22 ft living room.
Happy listening... Fritz
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Another thumbs up for Omega monitors. I have the Super7 Mk II's and am getting great results with a 4wpc SET amp. They are in a much larger room than yours and I am shocked at what spl I can achieve with this system. I just added a pair of REL T/X5's. I am amazed with the results. Huge sound stage, dynamic, great detail yet smooth. I can listen all day. This system, including stands, could come in under your budget. My primary system is a bit jealous right now. |
@snookhaus I will go with his recommendation of a set of neat speakers. I have a set up the line a bit in a home theater that is a 50wpc nad receiver I am sure your 20 watt tube amp would run hard against a 50 watt solid state amp. Also more money than your budget unless you can find a used pair I have a set of rigalto horn speakers from Germany that are to dies for with a set 300b amp that has 2 300bs in parallel. So 14 watts I believe. Much bigger room and pure perfection mids and highs and still acceptable in the base. I also have a melody 88h made in Australia amp with Sophia tubes that run a set of harbeth sh5 speakers with ease. That is a forty watt integrated. Also have a set of equation 25s run with a pair of line magnetic 124a mono blocks that is also very good in a small room. At 10watts. Tbey fall om there face when i set it to triode and they put out 1.5 watts those speakers are too hard of drive. My big system has a solid state power that I have never tried anything it could not drive with out ease. So I under stand what a system without enough power sounds like. Any of the above recommendation s I think you would be happy with.
Regards |
someone said "provides a more “palpable presence” of the musicians when played at louder levels". I keep shaking my head when I see all these small drivers trying to be woofers, long throw, ports, slots, corner placement reinforcement, .... and finally, like I did with my Wharfedales, add a self-powered sub so they don’t sound as small as they actually are. Superior parts, crossover wizardry from a magic kingdom cannot get more ’palpable presense’ out of these size drivers. Your existing speakers indicate a past draw to ribbons, ribbon tweeters, I suspect years of listening with no strong fundamentals and their overtones. I wish you lived near enough to hear these compact 3 ways with a 10" woofer that my experience indicates you can listen to from a short distance. I assumed they would be ’too big, that close’, so happy to discover I was wrong. Having level controls to adjust the frequencies to whatever space you use them in is a big plus, repeat, big plus, for any speaker, in any space. The preponderance of room treatments is related to the lack of level controls IMO!
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KLH Model 5, New, Compact 3 Way very similar to the AR-2ax, mostly out of stock, this indicates available actually available? $2,500 pair new
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Hi there, I had a similar issue/problem. I have a pair of Rogers LS3/5a 15ohm speakers that I like very much and was driving them with 15 watt 300b mono block amplifiers. After realizing that speakers were showing distortion at medium levels, I decided to get more power. I was initially using the 300b mono amps because I wanted the best quality amplification driving the Rogers. I’ve since moved to a Conrad Johnson Premier Four 100 watt EL34 amp, then a 45 watt single end 805 tube dual mono tube amplifier and finally now have a Conrad Johnson Premier 1b 130lb 150 watts EL34 tube amp. All 3 of these amps sound great on the Rogers especially the 1b and the 805 tube amp. So getting plenty of power or the correct amount of power is important. |
@lowtubes , I just did some googling and those have (what seem to my untrained mind) some interesting specs. 15 ohm/minimum of 12 ohm impedance, but sensitivity rated down at 82.5. |
@ristretto Where are you in your speaker search? Any plans to use a sub? Do you have to spend all $3K? |
@hheedah Frankly there are more recs than I can handle haha. I did chat with Fritz and he is having a BF promo on the Carbons and am considering them for demo. I also went to my local shop and demoed the ATC SCM19, Kef R3 metas, B&W 705 Sigs and an open box Quad S-5. They’ll be getting the Sonetto g2s in a few weeks. I’m digging the S-5 perhaps due to my longterm experience with ribbons as someone mentioned. At this juncture I’d definitely want to stay well under $3k. Perhaps a bit sad, but I do want whatever I end up with to be “end game”. Yes I do have a sub if needed. |
Zu DW at whatever rendition they are up to now would work nicely. I have the Omen II(very similar) in a 12x12 office that I use with a variety of amps, but I mostly use it with a single-ended Ampsandsound Bigger Ben headphone amp (has speaker taps as well). It takes a variety of power tubes, but I often have 6L6GC in there. It's a SET amp so maybe 2-3 watts with 6L6, but up to 6 with KT88. It's my favorite speaker setup in the house. It wasn't intended to be, but those speakers are just brilliant with that amp. They are also excellent with a Triode Lab EL84TT which is only about 6 watts. It's triode as well, but push-pull. I think you have a lot of room for compromise in a smaller room like this. A little power goes a long way. |
@ristretto Yeah I kinda thot you'd be overwhelmed so that's why I asked :). Too many choices sometimes. My setup: I have a Jolida - precursor to Black Ice - either 10 or 14 WPC and I'm in a room a little bigger than yours. Currently running a pair of Omega Junior Alnico 6 XRS with it and a REL T5 downfiring sub - (I replaced my Paradigm Mini Monitors v.6 stand-mounted speakers). Nice sound overall w/ the Omegas. Definitely depends on the quality of the source material. Nothing sounds bad but some recordings, like Johnny Cash American Recordings, Musica Nuda, vocals focused stuff sound great! Other recordings just OK but that's mostly true of any good speaker. I may look for a new amp, bit more power to see if it further improves the sound. Point being - the Paradigms are 91db sensitivity and sounded really really good. Because I couldn't audition used Omegas, I just bought them. Happy but not sure they're $1500 better... maybe. I've run those Paradigms w/ the little Jolida tube amp, Rotel integrated and a MF M6Si and they sounded great (although needed a sub to round 'em out.) Check out Paradigm used ones if you can. Mine new cost $500. Paradigm designed around the midrange and let the top and bottom end go where they go. They can play loud and didn't break up. I found 91db Paradigms to be great w/ the little tube amp with your kind of music. Way less than $3K also. PS- I'm in SoCal too so keep in touch... |
Hi, I listen exclusively to small combo jazz and vocals using KEF R5 floorstanding speakers. I have a slightly larger room than your 15 x 27. Love the KEF sound. This is my second pair of KEF floor standing. The new Meta series offer excellnet sound in floor standing for a reason price. In my setup, my speakers have great sound stage, warm presentation, surprising tight bass with the vocal clarity that I like. Give them a listen. Tubes should be good with them. My electronics are solid state. Joseph |
Monitor Audio Silver 300 7G Loudspeakers. $2600/pr.They work incredibly well in smaller rooms. The dual rear ports allow fine tuning for your room. The rear driver mounting setup bolts also allows tuning the cabinet to your taste. But don’t take my word for it. Take theirs: - The Absolute Sound Editors Choice 2025 - The Absolute Sound Editors Choice 2024 - The Absolute Sound Editors Choice 2022 - Audio Test Magazin and Like HiFi Editors Choice and Product of the Year 2024 award (In a 5.1.2 Dolby Atmos setup} - Sound Stage Reviewers Choice 2022 - StereoNet Applause Award 2022 Stereophile also rated the Silver 500 7G (same speaker w/ 2X8" woofers and larger cabinet) as one of the very few Class A speakers under 10,000 per pair. They cost $3500.The reviewer thought that was per speaker, not per pair. The S500 7Gs work better in larger rooms farther from the walls. The 300s which are intended for smaller rooms and positioning closer to the rear walls - a reality in your room. While not as efficient as some, in your room and your amp 100dB peaks are realistic. The tradeoff is they will deliver an honest 41Hz bass guitar low-E the others simply cannot. That’s Hoffman’s Iron Law - You can have low bass, high efficiency, or a reasonable cabinet size - pick any two. Everything else, tonal balance, soundstage and imaging, dynamics, PRAT, you name it, are all anyone could ask of a speaker in this range. FWIW, I also own KEF LS-50s and Magnepan .7s. My MA S300 7Gs would be the last to go. |
I'm usung Acoustic Energy 509's in a 12 x 13 room, great sounding speakers too me and fill the room. Not sure how they'll sound with tube amp. Type 2-way reflex loaded floorstanding loudspeaker |
Early 80’s in New Orleans, the audio dealer that recommended C-J MV75 amp & Pv2ar pre for my new-used ‘78 vintage Klipschorns stopped by to hear my system and asked if I wanted to hear a couple of bookshelf speakers he was fond of selling. The Spendor speakers he placed on top of the Khorns were so comparatively small I was prepared to be underwhelmed. Shockingly, the sound emanating from those “pipsqueak” speakers nearly duplicated the soundstage of the horns….falling short in the low end only (marginally).
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@echolane - I own a pair of Buchardt S400 MKii speakers and use them in my home office set-up. Really wonderful speakers. They look great in person and they sound fantastic. They have a bit of warmth to them and music is just easy to listen to with them. However, I’ve found they really need some power to be properly driven. Buchardt recommends at least 50 watts. I’ve found they sound best with 100 watts and up. They just don’t open up with a lower powered amp. I had them paired with a Luxman 590axii and, while great sounding, didn’t reach their potential until I swapped in a 100 watt tube amp. |
I enjoy my pair of Oriaco G6 stand mount two-ways from Tonian Labs. Lively and natural sounding to my ears. I’ve used with both a 20W hybrid and a 10W tube amp with good results. Work great in near field. In your price range too. Owner/Builder Tony Minasian is in SoCal. Contact Tony and he may be able to provide an in-home audition. https://tonianlabs.com |
I have a similar size room. I bought a pair of KEF LS50 Meta speakers and a Marantz model 30 amplifier. Both are Stereophile "A" listed. At the time, Barry Ober, the Soundoctor, was very pleased with the sound in my room. He had the most educated ears of anyone I know. My hearing has gotten worse, so I can no longer enjoy them as I should, so for $3,000 I will pass both of them on to you. They have barely been used, as I have been busy with business and family health issues. Like new condition. All original boxes and documentation. Also included is a Parasound T-DQ-1600 Broadcast Reference Tuner with remote. |
OP again, posting a followup. I looked into a lot of recs mentioned in this thread and soon realized that I wanted to focus first on speakers that I could immediately audition with my own amp. I also realized, for better or worse (and partly due to aesthetics) that I wanted smallish floorstanders. So I demoed several speakers at my local hifi shop and somewhat unexpectedly ended up getting something that did not get a lot of press - the now-discontinued Quad S5s. The bass, dynamics and sensitivity far surpassed my vintage Apogees while retaining the midrange magic of ribbon tweeters. And I got a great deal on them. Obviously I will never know how the wide range of speakers given in this thread will measure up in my room and I’m sure some of them will outperform the Quads. But hey, I’m pleased with what I got (for now!) If anything, this thread will provide plenty of great recs to anyone else in a similar situation. Cheers! |
