Looking for some new bookshelf speakers for a second system in a small bedroom. The room is pretty well treated with 6 broadband absorption and 9 diffuser panels. I’m running Audio Mirror Reflection 45 mono blocks with a Canary preamp. Source will most likely be a Gustard R26 as both dac and streamer. I also have a pair of Rel t5i subs and Aperion dual firing super tweeters.
Soundstaging and imaging are king for me. I want the biggest most dimensional sound I can afford. My amp pairing is really smooth so I’m not looking for anything too warm. I’d like something that is neutral but full in the lower mids and upper bass but also extended and airy in the treble. My current Totem Arros do the soundstaging/imaging but are a little weak for me in the lower mids and upper bass. Also I really value clarity and resolution as long as the magic isn’t lost of course. Basically I’m looking to have my cake and eat it too. My budget is around 3k and right now tops of my list are Fritz Carreras and Kef R3 metas. Also, Joseph Pulsars would be at the very top of my wish list but I’m trying to spend less unless it’s truly worth it. Others that are lower on the list are Nola Boxers, Totem Signature Ones, Merlin TSM MMM, and maybe even one of the smaller Thiel floor standing speakers
As always I’m looking forward to everyone’s thoughts and hopefully there is at least a couple great speakers I’m missing.
By the way... if the LRS+ really is not an option... the best stand mount monitor / "bookshelf" speaker I think I’ve heard is the Legacy Calibre. It’s a semi-open baffle, dipole speaker that sounds a lot like the other Legacy speakers (e.g. Aeris, Focus, etc.), all of which are simply "world-class" with few competitors.
I’ve got the XD version (internal amplification, but can be used with external amplification). Makes for a very clean installation with just a good streamer / preamp / integrated on the shelf / desk - very life-like, big sound!
It rivals the sound of the LRS+... I think I like the balance of the LRS+ better - a bit lighter mids and bass with a very open, airy sound. The Calibre has an equally open / airy sound but with more weight and slam in the mids and bass. Which the LRS+ can have with the addition of subs. Just depends on what you prefer and how much you want to disturb the neighbors....
Great thread. 👍 LRS's are awesome in the right application but not what I'd recommend.
I've had the Carrera be's, original tweeter and revised, and I've heard pulsar. For the money go fritz. Fritz is awesome to workwith as well. Honestly, he's the best 👌. He knows drivers and crossovers well and builds fantastic cabs. He does it all himself. I'd even consider any of his other speakers too, not just the Carreras.
OP with your tube amp Omega speakers will work well.If you are not for the looks the Tekton impact monitor loves tubes. If you live in the Chicago area you can try my Tekton monitor impact.
Given your quest, I support the Fritz recommendations. I use both the LRS+ and Fritz Carbon 7SEs in my 11x15' room. You would need different amplification for the LRS+s.
Another great thing about Fritz is you get to talk to the guy who makes the speakers, and he's happy to talk for hours about speakers or anything else and happy to answer any questions you might have...
I have had the JA Pulsars and a REL T10X sub for the last five years. Both in piano black. A superb combo. Will play very big for their size. Have decided to simplify my life and my audio system.
Regarding the size of the room... the LRS+ requires a room about 10 x 10+. Their sound is optimized in about a 7’ equilateral triangle with the speakers about 2’ from the rear wall. And, because of the small size and light weight you can move them back and forth out of the way very easily.
Admittedly - that’s not as convenient a bookshelf speakers on a bookshelf or table, but it’s no less convenient than bookshelf speakers on stands.
And... there is absolutely no comparison in the sound quality. Not even close...
100% agree, I have mine in a 12 x 11 x 9 room + 4 extra feet from a closet.
I’ve talked to a guy that had gone from the de cappo to the Fritz and preferred the Fritz. I have never heard the Fritz but have almost bought a pair a couple times. Talked with Fritz on the phone super nice guy don’t think you can go wrong with his speaker and resale is pretty easy. Find a used pair.
I have the Fritz Carrera BE's.. I bought the Pulsar graphene's to upgrade from the Fritz's. The Pulsars sounded really good, but for the price difference, it didn't seem to be that much of an upgrade. I traded the Pulsars in for the Perspective graphenes, now there was a difference, as it should be for almost 5 times as much as the Fritz's. I still have the Fritz's in my office. I cannot get rid of them. They are so good, especially for the price. Highly recommended.
Regarding the size of the room... the LRS+ requires a room about 10 x 10+. Their sound is optimized in about a 7’ equilateral triangle with the speakers about 2’ from the rear wall. And, because of the small size and light weight you can move them back and forth out of the way very easily.
Admittedly - that’s not as convenient a bookshelf speakers on a bookshelf or table, but it’s no less convenient than bookshelf speakers on stands.
And... there is absolutely no comparison in the sound quality. Not even close...
Overloading a room with a larger speaker is a myth
Maybe. Maybe I don’t mean overload but I certainly don’t have the space to take advantage of what a floor standing speaker would provide. I just know when I turn it up past 80db or so it’s just too loud for my room, or maybe just me, and I prefer it at a lower volume. I have treated my room and it measures well outside of some bass treatment I need to tame a bump at 50hz. The stand mount is just easier to integrate imho. I would love to have some floor standers, however, I think I’d just be spending money to have speakers I can’t get the most out of due to my small room. I’m certainly open to being convinced that I’m wrong and could find a three way stand mount that can work in a small space.
This thread has taken off a bit in the few days I’ve been away. Thanks for all the suggestions. At this point I’ve kind of narrowed it down to Pulsars, Fritz Carreras, or Reference 3a de capo be. Out of the three I’m leaning towards Fritz but a lot cans depend on what pops up at a good price really. The Magnepans and other open baffles are very intriguing to me and I hope to play with them one day. With my current room though I think it could work out or it may not. I’d rather go with more of a sure thing I guess. Anyways I’m really digging on the Fritz and may just have to check out the Pulsars another time.
I use stand mounts cause a floor stand speaker would overwhelm my listening space. My stand mounts can overwhelm it as well at volumes above 80db. While a stand mount and floor stander might take up the same footprint the stand mount doesn’t take up the same space visually in the room. Floor standers would feel much larger in my room. My speaker stands are neither goofy nor rickety either. I’m not fascinated by stand mounts it is just a practical trade off given the constraints of my room.
If the budget is 3k and you have pre-existing good amplification and subs, the Magnepan LRS+ would be a bit of a nobrainer for a 1000 bucks (as others have suggested). Traits of magnepans are well known.
Hmmm, another good option could be the Emotiva XT3 floorstander for 2000 dollars (Made in Tennessee!!). This seems to be a fairly unique speaker (for this price) with a very high level of resolution, clarity, imaging capabilities and significant bass output/extension that could remind you of some expensive speakers. You may not even need your Rel subs (which are not some infrasonic miracle, to begin with) in a smaller room.
What’s the fascination with a bookshelf anyways? After you put it on some stand, it takes the same footprint as a floorstander and you have to deal with a goofy rickety thing known as the speaker stand! (not to mention that some woofer in these goofy 2-way bookshelfs has to play up into the midrange, drops resolution/clarity, wimpy soundpower, increased distortion, etc). Bookshelf speakers are not the greatest idea unless you spend big bucks on a bookshelf to overcome some inherent disadvantages.
I like several of these suggestions.- especially the Harbeths and the Magnepan LRS+. I’ve got both and a few more, but these are my choices.
Of these I prefer the LRS+ because with the right electronics there are few competitors <10+ times its cost. The detail resolution, staging and imaging are as good as it gets at any price (provided you’ve got the right electronics).
It’s not a “bookshelf speaker” - but, it’s light and easy to move and nothing really compares. And they’re great in a smaller room, because they’re small.
What you might do… is… get a pair to fill in until you decide what you want… and… then either keep the or sell them when your think you’ve found the answer.
We have about same power, 50 watt class A audio hungary. Be careful on efficiency you don’t want any regrets. I had pulsars with this amp sounded very nice but better with more power and current.
I like the reference 3a Decappo’s and Reflectors with the 50 watts very much. Little more efficient. Not sure if 92db is correct but easier to drive.
In a small room you’ll get the best results/least room boundary interaction with a sealed/acoustic suspension speaker. They are few and far between, but well worth seeking out. I’ve had 4 or 5 pairs of sealed speakers in my small home office and got good results each time.
The pick of the litter in the manageable size options has to be the ATC SCM11s. I had the studio monitors, SCM12 Pros, which have the same drivers as the SCM11s in a slightly larger box. This is impeccable, dynamic, musical sound.
They’re ~$2K new, and there are always a few used pairs circulating (example below).
I was thrilled for years with my KEF LS50s (bought when they first came out) driven by a Pass XA30.5. I never got the amp out of class A (Pass needle never moved), even when old pals came over and it got loud... I would recommend them to anyone.
It takes a lot to beat them. I only upgraded last winter, when fortune allowed me to find a pair of MBL 126s within driving distance and a pair of Pass XA100.5s to drive them.
BTW the MBLs sounded absolutely wonderful with the XA30.5, but the needle was moving. With XA100.5s, the needles don't even twitch, and bass is noticably tighter.
You might contact Ty of Tyler Acoustics and inquire as whether he could build you a pair of his older Taylo Reference Monitors—the version with the Seas Millennium tweeters. They are essentially a slightly larger Joseph Pulsar
No, they’re not. Just because they may use similar Seas drivers doesn’t make them “a slightly larger Pulsar.” The magic in the Pulsars (and all JA speakers) is in the infinite slope crossover that’s patented and can’t be replicated.
You might contact Ty of Tyler Acoustics and inquire as whether he could build you a pair of his older Taylo Reference Monitors—the version with the Seas Millennium tweeters. They are essentially a slightly larger Joseph Pulsar, and very well built.
On the used market they can sometimes be bought for between $800 and $1100, which makes them one of the best values in all of audio. They can do some things better than some $15K speakers IME. Supplement them with subs and you have “end game” performance.
A much-overlooked speaker is the Technics C 700s. They are exceptional and available for less than $1K. Read the reviews, they are easy to find. I have a pair and love them..
This post is beyond my capabilities to understand. You want to fill a small room with enough power and sound than most will do for a room 3 times the size. I don't understand spending 10k plus for such a small space. You are way out of my expertise and price range. Good luck
As you can see everyone has their favorites as speakers are the most subjective component. Read reviews to get a sense of the characteristic sound of speakers in your price range. Then go audition them at local audio stores. As most stores stream you can select your favorite tacks right from Tidal or Qobuz. If possible listen to another pair as a contrast to the one you’re focusing on. Or get a home trial. Don’t buy without listening or on the basis of a review.
In my experience I was very excited about Revel Speakers after reading reviews and watching Youtube Demos. The 128B3 was my primary target, There was a store about 45 minutes from me that had them on display. Once I heard them with Classical Music I new that their sound characteristics were not to my liking There were no other brands there that I was interested in so I left and went to a second store that carried my alternate, Harbeth, which I knew would probably have a completely different presentation. However I really wanted to hear the 30.3 Monitor and the C7es-XD. My target was the 30.3 and after an hour long comparison I selected the C7. So research. Create a short list and then listen, compare or get a home trial.
🙄 I might be a bot. No Im human, I made a mistake. KEF Ref 3 Meta. One of my favorite in that price range. If you can find a used pair of Revel M126. I love the glossy walnut. I have the Revel Studio 2. They do good without room treatments but are beasts with them. They both have great bass. I feel the Revels are more controllable if putting closer to the front wall even though they are rear ported too.
1001011010. Are we allowed to swear on this forum?🤪
I don’t know your budget.
$10k is Arrtai bookshelf
$16k us Sonner bookshelf with matching stands.
if these are in your budget then you are welcome.
if you are in the Chicagoland area I believe Holm Audio is a Sonner dealer and can probably get you the Aertai through a distributor. Please talk to Mike Holm and not staff.
Joseph Audio Pulsars ($4,300 used, but usually don't last long), Fritz Carrera ($3,700 new), Buchardt Audio S400 MKII ($2,400 new), and Philharmonic BMR ($2,000 new)
I have had the Pulsars and BMRs in my system on extended loan from friends, and several times at shows. I own the Buchardt S400 MKIIs, and am recommending the Fritz based on reputation and having heard them several times at shows and an acquaintances home......that would be the short list if I didn't already own the Buchardts, which I will not be selling and love for the money.
If you can bump your budget up a bit more, go for the Pulsars.....they are great speakers
I have the same speakers running with a Luxman 509Z. Outstanding speakers. You can get them from Fritz on a 30 day trial basis. If you are not pleased you can send them back.
@brylandgoodman I’m a good friend of Vlad’s and know his amps well, and have had experience with your preamp once.
I’ve advocated a lot for the Joseph Audio Pulsars in past threads, but I should ask - do you plan to put the bookshelves on stands? If so, one speaker I would highly recommend you look at given your system is the Scansonic MB-2.5B. It is basically a small floorstanding speaker that has the form factor of a narrow bookshelf on a stand, and it weighs that much as well. That said, it delivers a really clear, engaging sound (think Raidho and Borresen, as Michael Borresen originally designed the MB series). They would work really nicely with the AM Reflection amps.
The MB-2.5B will also dig deeper than most bookshelves given its cabinet size. It is also bottom ported, so it can be kept closer to walls. It’ll fill up to medium-sized rooms (around 18ft wide) without the need for a subwoofer.
Some people look negatively at Scansonic, but that’s typically because of poor amp matching. They require high current amplifiers, and the AM Reflections will wake them up and properly control them.
Just like Raidho and Borresen speakers, they image and soundstage exceptionally.
I am an authorized Scansonic dealer, but I purchased the larger MB-6B prior to being a dealer by trade. They unseated my $25K Wilson Yvette. I thought the line was such a n incredible value that once I became a dealer, I had to take them on.
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