All the best,
Nonoise
Not Sure If This Is OK Here, But Here Goes
I'm selling a pair of Magnepans on Audiogon and as usual, have had no response. Yesterday, a guy from Argentina (allegedly) contacts me and says he'd like the speakers and gave me an address and phone number of a guy in Miami to ship them to and he'll forward them on to the end buyer.
At first glance, this doesn't pass the smell test. However, he did give me a phone number, which I may call later today. The other issue I have is that I have little to no experience with PayPal. How hard is it to defraud PayPal and leave me without my money and the lose of my speakers?
52 responses Add your response
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Of course paypal is terrific and an accepted industry standard. People do try to game it by for example claiming all sorts of nonsense, I know that, but I am only going by what others have said. Complicated transaction, though, and of course it smells fishy. My preference - for want of a stronger word, maybe "rule"- is to always and only communicate with the buyer to whom you will ship it to. Or, seller, whatever side you are on. This approach is also consistent with any ordinary rules of contract law. Keep it simple. Hows that for some original advice.
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The first thing a scammer usually tries to do is get you away from the web site by giving you an email address to contact. The new thing is to say "God Bless" at the end of the request. I just sold a $3000 bicycle on eBay. For 6 months all I got were scammers and two legitimate people who did not fit the bike. Going through Venmo and PayPal are the best way to handle these transactions. You never give any stranger your personal info and you only ship to the customer. |
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I often provide my personal info in a transaction. So that we may talk by phone. A chat on the phone can easily assist in establishing whether this is a person with whom you wish to do business with. Or, to put it another way, it easily weeds out obvious scammers, and then you are left with remaining genuine people. Or, person. |
@noske , I repeat. You never give a stranger your personal info. It is another dynamic when you shop with an established storefront. Even then your info is at some risk due to hackers. I have had many phone conversations with scammers and they are usually quite charming until you force them into a corner. |
OP, the situation would give me pause. And if you want there's likely a way to conduct the transaction. I would only consider doing the transaction payment in advance and the buyer pays and provides shipping labels. The buyer can insure the product and they take ownership prior to shippiing. @nonoise Thank you for your humor! I didn't think Shaq ever said 'no' |
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In your situation I’d use ZELLE and have the buyer agree that you’ll accept no responsibility for non-delivery or damages. PayPal will hold your money hostage until the speakers are delivered. Great for the buyer but for the seller it’s a great way to get screwed and PayPal ABSOLUTELY will put the screws to you. I can’t stand them. |
3rd party transactions are always suspect. And with something big like Maggies, I wouldn’t take the chance. The problem with Friends and Family mode, which seems fool proof as MC mentioned, is it really isn’t. If the buyer pays F&F with a credit card, they can’t dispute via PayPal but they can dispute on the credit card, which is even more of a nut roll. You could use an escrow service of some sort, but that is just another layer. Run, don’t walk. Just not worth the hassle. |
As a seller, you are not in a favorable position with PayPal. As a buyer you have more control and easier to get your money back. |
Run from this bogus offer. Run! You already know the offer is no good. These offers only work on desperate sellers or people who trust in the kindness remote strangers, which you shouldn’t. bogus offers work on a very small percentage of targets but it’s called getting something for nothing. There’s always someone looking to part a person with his money. But if you go forward, I have a bridge in the Everglades for sale. 😀 |
I agree with @jackd. I had a buyer who said he was from Columbia and of course I thought, "yeah right". He explained to me that they don't have access to equipment like we do in the States. He said the freight forwarder out of Miami would handle the customs paperwork and that I didn't have to worry about it. I was a bit reluctant but went ahead and sent the CD player. Everything worked without a hitch. I received payment and never heard another word. I might ask a few pertinent questions just to make sure it's legit but what he is saying is true. |
My @ cents, people from Argentina, and companies, use US residents as their "mules" to buy things in the USA. Getting stuff like HiFi gear is extremely, and I mean extremely expensive because the import tariffs. I forget what the tariffs are but they are something like x2 x3 the invoicing. A few years ago, I travelled for business to BsAs 4-5 times, and when I was asked what I like to do and mentioned my HiFi hobby and showed some pictures of my setups this couple jumped off the table. They were all over it. To make the story short, I ended buying a TT, an amp and yes speakers that a "mule" got through customs for me! I am not saying this person is legit, but what this person is proposing is a common way for them to get things into the country. I also have a similar story with a Brazilian gentleman. Think of Argentina and Brazil as a modern East Germany in the 70s-80s, their governments are nothing short of Russian style governments. For example, people were dying, still are, and both governments made illegal to import COVID vaccines from the EU, Japan, and USA. They either got a Chinese or Russian vaccines, almost a year after everyone was getting vaccinated. Just my 2 cents, but people in Argentina have been nothing short kind and hard workers and they make the best they can with the little they have. Cross your Ts, dot your Is and see if this person is legit. I just don’t dismiss people from other cultures and regions because they do things differently than me.
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I live in Mexico and we import from Italy. The process for us is to hire an import company in MEX to negotiate with the Italian manufacturing company. The Italian company must be paid by the MEX import company before they will ship. Because of a recent contact by an Argentina importer, I know the process is the same for Argentina. If the Miami company is legit, they must be willing to wire the funds to you bank account before you ship. Import/export companies send hundreds of bank wires and letters of credit a week. Good luck!
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I’ve used PayPal routinely for international trabsactions, i.e.,, So. Korea, JPN, FRG, UAE, Qatar, and UK. The most expensive single item was ~$30,000. All transactions and monetary exchanges were smooth. On one occasion, an unexpected shipping delay occurred. I prematurely reached out to PayPal, who shut down the seller’s account until I pleaded on his behalf. I would proceed but with caution as urged by our hobby peers. |
I've sold to Agoners in Latin America who wanted to work with a freight forwarder. The issue I've experienced with freight forwarders is around the packaging of the item. The freight forwarder oftentimes removes the item from the factory protective packaging in favor of their own--much smaller and less cushioned--box. Both times I've shipped to a freight forwarder, the gear arrived damaged. |
Friends and Family is intended for what it says. If you use it for buying/selling things then you are violating the terms you agreed to when you signed up and basically cheating them out of what you owe them. Otherwise known as fraud. Sometimes called stealing. I know many will rationalize why that isn't wrong, but it is wrong signed, goody 2 shoes |
This an export transaction in which you are the "exporter of record" you have obligations to both the US and the importing country. There are required documents, as an example a Commercial Invoice and perhaps other documents. These documents are required for both the export and import side of the transaction. Some foreign buyers use a "Forwarding Agent" to manage all these requirements as well as arranging the actual shipment of the goods. The company you have been pointed to may be such a company or individual with both knowledge and authority to handle the transaction. Now there is payment, the safest and simplest traction would be to sell the item to the guy in Miami have him pay you thru PayPal and let him deal with the process of getting it to the end buyer. You are paid and out of the loop. You don't own it anymore and you are not exporting it. He is. Take your money and forget about the rest. Now, you may be asked to ship the goods to this guy in Florida with the promise that you will he paid by the end buyer. Problem here, is that you don't know what is going to trigger you getting paid. You also don't know who is going to pay the freight, handling and duty on the shipment, that could add up to some dollars you don't want to pay. I have sold lots of stuff on Ebay with a few export sales. Every time it was an export I just "wrote it off" maybe I would get paid and maybe not. And maybe I would get a call from customs enforcement. I got lucky and never had a problem, but finally decided I would not do it anymore and excluded export sales from my listings. You may just want to wait for a domestic buyer and not get dragged into this mess.
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