I just read through these responses and thanks to all who offered advice.I'm going to consider all of it-trying to figure it out is half the fun, and this exchange has given me some good information to think about.
@ghdprentice I appreciate your always thoughtful advice and will give your observations careful consideration. I was a gearhead when I was young, then got away from it with kids, etc., got back into it about ten years ago and a little intimidated by some of it-appreciate your thoughts.
Cheers and thanks to all.
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''New Amp Advice'' see here
Mike
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I’ve heard that very fine Michi amp in a similar system and have to ask: Is there something actually lacking with the Michi or is its designation as weak link purely price based? Some products are simply much higher value than others.
If one has money to burn, then no issue. That’s fine.
Personally the only issue I would have with the Michi is size and weight. I am only interested in down not up-sizing my system.
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@zlone Your system looks awesome. I'm sure it sounds great. The cat and dog seem to be enjoying it. :)
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@sls883 Whoa! That’s a nice system! I am envious of the cables alone. 😀
The Coda is an excellent amp, the Audionet just suits my listening habits and my room a little better.
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@zlone Well, that one looks plenty nice!  I think I'll have to be happy with my Coda No 8, V1 for some time. It seems to work well with the rest of my system.
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@zlone You have the $18k Audionet monoblocks?
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What an amazing system you have. I can almost hear it. Obviously this has taken an incredible amount of time and effort to assemble.
I’m an old guy as well. I stayed away from tubed amplifiers for forty years for the same reasons you state. Wow, what an incredible mistake that has been for me. When Audio Research offered an Auto biasing and soft start amp I instantly took the plunge. From that moment forward there was no going back.
As you age I think experience allows you to appreciate the more nuanced and subtle aspects of life... and of course music. While I was really excited by a powerful kick drum or loud guitar solo as a young adult, I now get the subtitles of great performances and venues. After attending the symphony for over ten years in the seventh row center seats... the Audio Research amp changed my system from a sound spectacular to sounding like real music. Completely changed the character to sound natural and musical. There is a known synergy between Sonus Faber speakers... which I have and Audio Research.
Given your budget you owe your self a trial. Find yourself a ARC dealer and have them bring over a set of Reference 160m mono blocks. They should set them up and leave them at your house for a week or two. This is what my dealer did. I left my old Pass x300 sitting next to it so I could swap in and out to decide which I wanted. Within a minute I realized there would be no swapping... they would stay. The reputation of tube amps has outlasted its useful life. With auto biasing and soft start these are very reliable amps... know I have put well over 5,000 hours of time without any hiccups. If you are getting absent minded, as I find myself... don't worry after two hours without a signal, the amp turns itself off.
Life is too short to compromise.
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Hard to describe specific improvements I’m looking for, maybe wider soundstage and better imaging
Speaker placement and listening chair placement have much influence over soundstage and imaging. It can take weeks of trial & error - moving by inches to get it right. If you’re not satisfied with the dynamics, tone & timbre, that’s something else.
My modest system jumped a few levels when I converted over to a later generation of Synergistic Research cabling. It all began with this review.
Good luck! Enjoy the journey!
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I am curious of what an amp for 50K can do better than an amp for e.g., 5K. In a limited/smallish space. I always want to learn, even with my limited cognitive skills. I kind of understand why a Ferrari is 10 times the price of a Hyundai.
(And I am on the market for an amp for a fraction of 5K, any info is somewhat relevant)
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@lloydc Unless you have heard his system its very irresponsible to claim "minimal" improvements. An example of this was a SF Amati G5 paired with 2 Atoll AM 400/PR 400 and the results were disappointing at best. A McIntosh MA 12000 was substituted and the Amati came to life. My point is you can't minimize the importance of 1 component or cable change in a HEA system.
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@kerrybh you have some fine choices in amps. Most would be end gamers for sure but I’ll just say I’ve heard the Bricasti M28’s and was VERY impressed. That would be my end game amp. The M32 are most likely overkill for your speakers unless you listen in a cathedral or want to listen to jet engines at 105dB or greater 😉
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@jc4659 Mind expanding on your comment that the Audionet amp was very different from the Coda amp? How? Which Coda amp? Thanks!
I have a Coda #8 amp, version 1. Up for sale if there is interest.
I recommend you read through this thread where @sfpeloton decided to go with the same Audionet amp.
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/pass-xa25-for-my-system
He might have some more comments to share. My comments from that thread below.
I had thought that I tried all combinations between my existing Pass/Coda and the new Audionet gear, but I realized that I may not have tried the Pass XP-12 in front of the Audionet AMP. The point is that I cannot completely separate my impressions of the AMP from those of the Pre G2, together they are fantastic. When I received the gear, I only introduced the Pre G2 into my system at first, in front of the Coda. I was so taken with that I never went back to the Pass. But then inserting the AMP in the system took things to a whole new level.
My speakers are KEF Reference 1’s and I had them fairly close together for a variety of reasons. After listening to the Audionet gear for awhile it became clear I was not hearing everything and I pushed them out to about eight feet apart, leaving just a foot of space from the side walls. The soundstage is out of this world, with clear placement and presentation of everything in the recording. You might say I am just listening to my gear, and not the music, and there is some truth there, however as noted previously, the overall presentation is natural, clear and detailed, but not overdone in any way. I am using a Merason Reuss DAC, which helps with the natural part.
I like my bass, but I am a low volume listener. My ears are overworked from many years of going to shows and listening louder than I should. The majority of my listening is now acoustic jazz, and my system is built to deliver full sound at low volumes. The bass with the Pre G2 in front of the Coda is very good. The bass with the Pre G2 in front of the AMP1 is a whole other thing. So well defined, but not unrealistically tight, with excellent bloom and decay. If you look at the specs of the AMP1, the damping factor is listed as: > 10,000 @ 100 Hz. That is a pretty extreme number, but it sort of feels like it when you listen. It’s nice.
The AMP is single ended only connections, so I am in search of the ultimate RCA cable now and my fancy XLR’s sit on the shelf. And it does run a bit warmer than the Coda, but this time of year at the 45th parallel, that is okay.
I hope that helps.
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Synergy could be the issue. Of the power amps you have mentioned Burmester could be the best option. I heard the 218 at a dealer with the SF Lilium and it was sublime! All associated electronics were Burmester(Pre/Phono/CD) TT was an upper level Clearaudio with Transparent cables. A system at this level deserves the minimum of 2 dedicated lines which was not mentioned. Maybe an upgrade in Power conditioning(Stromtank?) and cables(Vahalla 2) could "open things up". The first step is the finding the best synergy with amp/pre/speakers then work on the rest.
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I would reach out to Will Kline (formerly of Sonus Faber), I believe he's now at Shunyata. I would trust his opinion, he will likely get you going in the right direction.
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Also, I tried spikes, with my JSE Model II’s, heard no advantage, changed them to 3 wheels (more weight/per wheel than 4, and auto-level, no shims needed) (and anti-tipping blocks in the rear corners).
It is far more important to maintain ability to re-position speakers for advantageous imaging in a space for single or two listeners, I put something here about that too
Toe-In Alternates, Stereo and Video
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The incremental improvement possible over the Mich is very, very small ( unless you move to tubes) and it can control every speaker you might desire - they don't get much better. There is considerable room for improvement to your speakers, turntable and cartridge. and you didn't mention any subwoofers.
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Appreciate all of the suggestions thus far and hope for more.
I am interested in Audionet and would also appreciate knowing more about how they differ from coda.
@jasonbourne71 I respect what you have to say and always enjoy your comments. I agree that what I have now is a good piece of equipment and noted that I would only upgrade if I could hear a significant improvement. Just exploring the last piece. never thought of myself as a one percent guy. Getting ready to be 68 years old, worked from the time I was 12 and fulfilled every financial obligation that I had to my family. Only responsible for me now, so I figure it’s OK to indulge what I like. For me, it’s not expensive watches, or cars, or trips around the world, it’s this stuff.
has anyone heard what the specifications and price might be on the new Audionet and the new Boulder amps that are coming out? That could be interesting.
thanks again for the suggestions. Cheers.
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I’m at the airport, where do you live, I just invited myself over.
I never heard your amp or speakers, but my instinct is to change the speakers, not the amp.
The Stereophile review of that amp
https://www.stereophile.com/content/rotel-michi-s5-power-amplifier
makes me want it, despite the fact that neither you nor I need anywhere near that much power, it’s too heavy to handle, and I have a rule about avoiding potential fan noise, and, I prefer tube sound and am willing to buy my own tube testers and put up with them.
It’s a big room and a big budget, I would go for speakers with no ports, no side or rear output, properly aimed and angled to deliver maximum primary sound waves (improved imaging your stated goal), minimum floor, ceiling, side wall, rear wall reflections.
I would love to hear these sealed boxes in your space
https://www.ebay.com/itm/175688092340?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5338381866&toolid=10001&customid=4c9fc5f2-d8cd-11ef-8860-646364343162
Seller says Rosewood, but I believe they are simply a red stain on a more common wood. I owned and loved the JSE Model II’s, loved them, but missed my Vintage Horns/15" Woofer I inherited from my uncle. I still listen to them at my friend’s home, a big room like yours in a Firehouse he lives in.
My speaker preference is directional horns, large woofer, efficient to avoid need for amps with cooling fans and to allow alternate use of tube preamp and tube amp(s).
I understand hesitation to get into tubes, however, efficient speakers provides rather than precludes the option.
Once you hear those Model II’s in your space, then I would strip the drivers, and have my woodworker cover them with a select veneer, make them look as gorgeous as they sound.
I put some info about JSE Model II’s on this site
https://www.audiogon.com/systems/11418
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@zlone Mind expanding on your comment that the Audionet amp was very different from the Coda amp? How? Which Coda amp? Thanks!
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Your speakers are pretty sensitive compared to many out there at 92dB/watt. Unless you listen at very high levels, you don't need many watts. and most of the time, I bet youre listening to less than one watt.
Once clear advantage of buying a smaller amp is less heat into the room. I'd be thinking 50ish wpc or less if you don't turn it up.
Also, make sure you consider your new amp listening at low volumes. it is much easier to assess the quality by how it performs in the low volume. Turning it up makes everything sound better.
Jerry
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You will get a lot of recommendations, I can only offer that I recently replaced my Coda with an Audionet Amp 1 and I am in love with it. Both are great amps, but very different. If you can find a way to audition this brand, I think it would be worth your time.
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Why would you want to spend $40-45K? I guess you belong to the 1% Class. There is nothing wrong with your Michi amp. It is competently designed. All competently-designed amps will sound alike. I recommend the Fosi V3 Monos with two 48 volt power supplies - 300+wpc@2ohms for $500. Your system is excellent! If you really desire a change in sound quality buy a different pair of speakers, say MBL omni’s.
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In your price range Lamm Industries Monos would be at the top of my list. Air Tight too. I dig my Spatial Monos but 24W could be lower for your 92db rated speakers.
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+1 @soix
Maybe Westminster REI monoblocks - great reviews, runs cool, sliding class A SS. I’m looking to demo what may be my end-game amp
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Well, you’ve certainly got some great candidates, but as you well know at this level they’re all very good and it comes down to that magical thing called personal preference. If it’s me I’d go listen to the ones within an hour, and if there’s one that stands out I’d hope at that price the dealer would let you borrow the amp for a day or two (maybe when they’re closed) so you can demo it in your own system/room. If you don’t find “the one” that really does it for you I’d travel to hear the others and do the same thing. That’s how I’d do it anyway, and best of luck.
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