I went to a dealer last week and listen to some really sweet pieces. I was ready to throw down some coin but am confused about the dealers approach. He comes in the room and says how is everyhting. I say it is amazing this is just the sound I am looking for. He says okay and leaves. Comes back in 10 minutes and I am ready for hardball. I sit back with my hands above my head in an inviting posture and say- can you beat prices that I see on Audiogon? He says he will be right back- great i think he knows- I know my stuff. Another guy comes in and says he needs to use the room for a client. I say where is the other guy and he says he's on the phone. So I wait in the lobby for 20 minutes and don't see anyone. I left my name on a paper and put it on the desk and ask him to call me with the best he can do on the system because I can buy some of it on AUdiomart. I asked my wife and she thinks that's too hardball- maybe i should have lied and said I'm shopping around for best price. Any info on how to speed pitch softballs?
Women tend to invest time and $ in relationships, and men tend to invest time and $ in things. This aint no sissy hobby when you have to haul 100# amps and 200+# speakers! Magnepans are easy to move; that doesn't prove your manliness! You gotta get some 200-300 pound monsters to prove you are a real man! Magnepans are for warm up. ;)
Remember Rosy Grier doing needlepoint? He even wrote a book about it. You didn't mock him - he could CRUSH you!
In the end, if you treat the dealer with respect, protect your buying interests and do a fair deal without abusing the privilege of gaining from the knowledge and demos, go home with a badass system to enjoy, and have peace with the wife - you're a real man! Kudos.
As far trolling satire.... I like GUITARSAM much much more...his trolls yield better, kinder conversation. Don’t really dig the Borat thing. If this is the same person ....retire this and bring Sam back.
Tubebuffer: Welcome to Audio Troll. I’m the guest host Tubebuffer. My friend, the regular MC, asked me to fill in this week. He went on a long rant and has not come back yet. Long story short, he’ll hopefully recover nicely. I can't talk about it. It gives me shpilkes in my genecktecessoink. And it aggravates my hiatus hernia.
Oy, oy -- I’m just a little verklempt. A little emotional, little verklempt. Talk amongst yourselves.
Talk amongst yourselves. I’ll give you a topic. First reflection points are neither "first" nor "reflections." Discuss!
Curious is to how often you take the extended warrantees on Audiogon products. I find it very entertaining how your request was handled by the proprietor.
Although the salesperson acted poorly...seems to me that you put on such a demonstration in actions and words that he just gave up. Hey it happens.
If you have so much "coin" to throw around then why not negotiate a fair price? Or is that not a "manly" thing to do? Is that "winning" where you are from? How's that workin' out for ya?
Actually, I think we are being trolled. But, it was a fun read.
When and if you back to your dealer, you may truly find that Magnapan speakers can be driven by tubes and that there are many that are doing just that.
I think there are 2 sides to this. From the point of view of enlightened self interest, we do need to support our dealers.
But it's clear he was offended. If you get this and it was not your intention, it may make sense to go back and apologize.
My 2 cents worth: start again.
The very fact of the apology would probably incline him to help you out. Explain your budget and ask him whether he could help, maybe as tk21 suggests, with used equipment? You could then delay the decision and check out if you are getting a fair deal. If you still feel you are being ripped off, its easy to vote with your feet.
Win win is ALWAYS the best kind of deal. Do keep in mind all the positives of working with and having a good relationship with a good brick and mortar dealer.
It's not realistic to expect high-end, brick-and-mortar shops to compete on price with Amazon, eBay, or Audiogon. Still, there may be few ways to get good deals from a HiFi shop. One is by purchasing lightly used demo products. Another is with trade-ins. A third is by asking them to deliver directly to you for a short in-home trial (possibly with demo gear). If they are close enough, they might deliver in a store (or personally owned) vehicle, potentially saving you on costs to ship heavy/bulky items.
I again thank the group for the energy and the appreciation you have for me to improve in this transaction. Dshrieder if we line all these men up you would be close to the leader of this group. Some others are close but some I can see fear and lack of manhood. They poke like children without direction and post all day and don’t work. They fail to try to realize that courage is hidden between failure and enthusiasm and the ability to be free from fear and go back again with a humble attitude. I learned last night from my wife tells me to slow down because the audio is a feminine pursuit. She says this not in a bad way but to chase something like a sound and create something in the home is like a woman would do. I tell her that I am a modern man and by the end of the conversation she is very much happy with me. i will soften my approach like I am in the kitchen at a party without Covid. I will connect in a kind and enthusiastic way over his system and pay him compliments and the glory of the biggest Maggie speaker will be mine. I will pay him a fair price for combination and not ask him to ship it to my house at his expense but instead will take them home myself. I will drive them with big NAD. I prefer tube sound but they won’t work as the Maggie is hungry for power. I will go back Thursday thank you for support in this communication.
I’m still new to all of this, but I thought a salesperson’s job is to sell. Not everyone is chomping at the bit to lay down big cash (and from what I have seen, if you are considering equipment on Audiogon, you are looking to lay down big cash), so the salesperson needs to ask enough questions to determine the seriousness of this potential buyer and what he/she is looking to pay. Whether the OP’s approach was sound or not, I think that is secondary to the need of the salesperson to do their job and see if a deal can be had.
Personally, I have not gone into any high-end audio stores because I know that I am not going to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a system, let alone one piece. And, as dill advised me, I don’t want to waste a salesperson’s time that could be better spent with an eager buyer. That, and I don’t want to hear any equipment that leaves me feeling dissatisfied with the equipment I can afford.
I don’t mind spending 4K with Toska audio because they treat their costumer more than fairly, good thing is , I live five minutes away.Its a blessing to have highend store with a very nice owner, with good gear too.
Toska audio here in highland Park , Illinois.I visited that audio store many times without buying.But they treated me very very nice, I wonder what the owner is thinking, he is always happy to demo, the most I bought is 5 dollar old album.In my heart the owner is super nice. Two years later I needed a nice tube amp, I went to his store and sold me monoblock tube amp, for 4K.You see down the road those nice treatment of costumer were remembered.
Better to take responsibility for your own lack of success in this encounter than believing some speculative story about why the salesman left you hanging. You really have no idea, nor does anyone else here. I’d go back and tell the guy you are interested again... no need for games.
Back in the back in the day when I was in sales that was called an opportunity. Ask the customer if he’s prepared to buy today and if so what’s his offer. Get a deposit to show seriousness and take it to the boss. The negotiation has just started. Not prepared to buy today, well sir, come back when you are and I will be happy to listen to any reasonable offer. Simple sales strategy.
Based on your self- described manner, acuity and pretensions, most audio dealers, salesmen and fellow humans would technically classify you as a putz. With a little work on your manner, sharpness and humbleness, you may be able to attain shmuck status.
Richmos I agree. That is a great way to guarantee not getting a sale and most likely loosing a potential future customer. I did sales for a while and was good at it. I always just tried to level with the customer and if someone offended me just remind myself that maybe they just aren’t very good at negotiating.
I remember early on being put off when a foreigner would come in and offer a stupid low price. Then I came to realize in some parts of the world that is just normal.
On the other hand, as many have said, the buyer should also realize the guy has a business to run.
Anymore then 10% off retail at a private dealer and you are just being cheap and disrespectful. If you aren’t prepared to pay without some cheap line like “can you match Audiogon”. My opinion but that is just disrespectful. They have a business to run
I could see it from different prospectives but to me the salesman dealt with it all wrong. Even if the guy came into the store intending to be a tire kicker a lot of good salesmen can turn that into a customer. Granted I wouldn’t have spent a lot of time with him but how hard is it to say, “I can’t sale you new equipment with a warranty for close to the price of used equipment but if you are interested in buying today I could probably get you 10% off (or whatever discount he would be comfortable with) depending on what you buy.”
There is no call for just being rude. Maybe the salesman was just having a bad day 🤷🏼♂️
Regardless of how foolish you all think the OP was for taking the approach he did, it is equally foolish that the salesman disappeared and left the OP hanging without any resolution.
“Ya the world would swing if I were king, can I help it if I Dream time to time... and when your bulldog barks and your canary sings, you’re out there with winners, it’s good to be king”
Stregth in opinion does not necessitate rudeness. My� comment, "PURE CHINTZIPHILE," was rude. I apologize for that.
It doesn’t have to be a manly contest, nor a game. Try authentically making a new friend and don’t make the deal the greatest thing to come out of it. You may find the wealth of knowledge of the dealership’s employees to be a huge benefit in the future.
Anyone who sounds arrogant or too proud gets the smack down around here. The guys on this forum almost always want to help, even if information and advice can be conflicting. No one has cause to doubt your manliness, but frankly, that has nothing to do with it.
Try this on for size; meekness is strength. Meekness puts the other person first, not self. It takes into consideration the needs of others and attempts to moderate one’s own tendency to dominate or control. It actually takes strength to be self-confident without being a loudmouth or obnoxious. Many men would do well to consider strength of character that goes beyond the typical male persona. Some of the most impressive men I have met are not out to be Alpha Males, but strong marriage partners, great fathers, considerate persons and sensible leaders, etc. No one pushes these guys around, but they don’t have to prove anything, either. If you are new to this, be a student, especially of new gear that you are unfamiliar with. Don’t see the dealer as an obstacle, but a resource (not to be abused).
One last thing; as someone who literally builds hundreds of systems, if you want to go it alone, be the man about it making his own decisions independent of others’, i.e. dealer input, etc. you likely will not end up with a great system, especially if you are new at this. Pride and lack of experience are imo the biggest reasons people make huge mistakes in establishing audio systems. So, if you are just getting rolling, and you don’t have a clue why you like some rigs better/more appealing than others, it would pay to ratchet back the confrontational bargaining.
I suggest you go back to the dealer, offer an apology for coming off poorly, tell them your budget range and ask to be taught. The odds are better than average that it would be superior to a system you would cobble together online. After all, you did find it impressive enough to try bargaining.
Anyway, that’s my attempt at striking up a friendship that I started on my bad note. :)
" Perhaps I am not as skill as some of you gentlemen in this area. Perhaps I am just too much man for some of these hobbies." What the heck does that mean?
"I told this audio guy that there is plenty of great gear in Audiogon but I like his system too. I will go back and tell that guy I am not paying more than I think is fair."
tubebuffer, very well wrirtten treatise. Although, you describe yourself as a hard-ball negotiator. You have your' right for that, but why complain and more so, show that tou were shut down by professionals?
Ouch. You tried to sound like you were in control and they dissed you
like a bum. They’re probably turning over kit with five figure net
profits and don’t need or want your business. I hate that high-end snob
bs though and wouldn't give them the time of day for that rudeness.
You have no idea who they are or what the situation was, as you weren't there.
then you project into it and hang these people without knowing a single thing.
This is the exact reason that I do not go to visit dealers to waste their time and I manufacturer audio products and know the dealers personally.
I don't understand what price you were looking for as the audio sites are typically used components. Were you looking for them to match used prices? How would that work with you buying a car?
BUT the sales person could have simply asked what exactly are you looking for? He then could have said this is the price for those pieces.
Recently a potential customer heard my phono stage in his home for a trial period. After two weeks I needed to get it back so other people to hear it. He told me that it was amazing and blew away his current reference phono stage. He then came to my house with some of his real-to-real equipment for my partner to repair. He heard my system and asked about the "best price" I would see the phono stage for. The parts alone cost me (at my prices) $2800. He wanted me to sell it for $3000. It just beat the crap out of his reference phono which was over $8000 or more. I do not get insulted with these types of people but I tell them thanks but no thanks.
Thank you I enjoy good feedback and straight criticism of this process. Perhaps I am not as skill as some of you gentlemen in this area. Perhaps I am just too much man for some of these hobbies. My wife says I should put small speakers in the gym, but I have a fondness for the Maggie speaker sound. From the sound of tones, some of you don’t negotiate on these goods, and others have tried and been filled with shame and fear. I get it. It sounds like a few know how to lay down the law.If I want to buy a house I tell the salesperson that the neighbors house is not kept up as it could be. I sight the crime statistics if it helps build my case for better price for me. They do the same to me but the other way. If I buy a car I show up driving the car on loan from a different dealer. He knows I have options. I told this audio guy that there is plenty of great gear in Audiogon but I like his system too. I will go back and tell that guy I am not paying more than I think is fair. As miller said I will not continue to be the bird in the bush, but will spread my wings and become the bird in his hand. Then he and I can make small talk and I will get my price by seeing how he does in his own ring. Thank you all for being in this process with me.
This strikes me as trolling the OP signed up here today and posted on the systems page a boombox. The system post was amusing in isolation but combined with this post seems like he's just here to troll.
dill, the OP was "ready to throw down "some coin". Interested in "sweet pieces" although never relegated intent toward's a complete whole system purchase. Otherwise, I fully agree with your suggested approach. The OP should (may) add more relevance as to satisfy us member's feedback. ebm, are you suggesting the OP is a potatoe brain?
The OP was interested in the complete system. A more proper approach would be to ask if a system discount would be available without mentioning AudiogoN or AudioMart. With his answer you could have said that I will talk it over with my wife and get back to you. Do some quick research on the components you want and how much it will cost to get them all to your home using AudiogoN & AudioMart. You might find that having a local dealer is a better investment in the long run, as if something goes wrong you have recourse.
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