I went to a dealer last week and listen to some really sweet pieces. I was ready to throw down some coin but am confused about the dealers approach. He comes in the room and says how is everyhting. I say it is amazing this is just the sound I am looking for. He says okay and leaves. Comes back in 10 minutes and I am ready for hardball. I sit back with my hands above my head in an inviting posture and say- can you beat prices that I see on Audiogon? He says he will be right back- great i think he knows- I know my stuff. Another guy comes in and says he needs to use the room for a client. I say where is the other guy and he says he's on the phone. So I wait in the lobby for 20 minutes and don't see anyone. I left my name on a paper and put it on the desk and ask him to call me with the best he can do on the system because I can buy some of it on AUdiomart. I asked my wife and she thinks that's too hardball- maybe i should have lied and said I'm shopping around for best price. Any info on how to speed pitch softballs?
You are a tire kicker, using his facility for demoing gear that he has purchased, setup in a paid for venue that employs people. In your mind, did you include shipping costs to the prices you see on AudiogoN? Remember, he has already paid the shipping to his store. So, what stuff do you know? He now knows where you are coming from and doesn't want to deal with you.
" maybe i should have lied and said I'm shopping around for best price." But that is what you are doing and your actions bear that out.
If you really are serious and really do know what you want, and their market prices, and really are prepared to buy, then you could hardly have picked a worse way to handle it. Because the reason I say really over and over again is there's what people say, and there's what people do. And what you did was perfectly in line with a totally unserious buyer. Saying things like speed pitch softballs only serves to heighten my skepticism. The icing on the cake is your one post. Do this a lot, do you?
Still, other people (not trolls) can learn from this. You do your research, find your component, and then weigh the price they want for the bird in hand you can actually see, touch, and hear with the bird in the bush you can't.
Sorry if that's too grown up for you. But that's the way we do it.
Whether this really happened or not, I have no clue, but if I owned the store, the sales person would probably be looking for a new job at some point for one of two reasons. One, because they were not good (or smart) enough to qualify the customer up front before investing too much time, and two, because they were too lazy to explain their value position to a ready to purchase customer who appeared to be offering right of first refusal.
People who have enough money to afford an expensive system generally value time and experience, but they are not going to just give their money away, they make you work for it.
You made a BIG mistake mentioning Audiogon as soon has he heard that he figures your a cheapskate so you should move on.If you want a good deal at a dealer come in with cash or tell them if i bring you cash what can you do.If you give a charge card he looses 4%.I always send a check or buy with cash you will get a better deal.On Audiogon every one wants Paypal because they think they will get beat so those dudes love to pay 4% extra.The guy that invented Paypal was very smart as they get 4% and do next to nothing.
Just a couple of observations... asking dealer to match the price of new equipment to used equipment on Audiogon is kind of a silly request; second, putting your "hands above your head" can be seen as insulting the salesman by saying whoa! don't rob me now, dude.
I see two problems. 1: "I was ready to throw down some coin". They are interested in dollars. 2: "I left my name on a paper". When toilet paper is offered for you to leave information on .... that is a red-flag. Just having some fun here, but good luck.
In the late 70's/early 80's I worked in the high end audio business, before the internet. When I started out, learning the ropes of selling on straight commission, before I learned how to better qualify customers, I'd spend so much time with "tire kickers", who basically wanted me to teach them what I knew about the equipment, so they could go elsewhere and snag cheaper equipment. I worked at a shop that had to rent the space, purchase the inventory, pay the utilities and hire people to run the store, and these "tire kickers" were just using us. On two occasions I spent a lot of time with customers only to find they'd head to the "schlock" places and buy lower-quality equipment with no service, and they actually had the audacity to ask for help when they had problems with that equipment they bought elsewhere. I just had to say that I wasn't familiar with those brands and recommend they ask the people they bought the items from for help.
Salesman like that will not make anyone go back to their store, If Iam the salesman , I will direct this future audiophile to the gear , he can afford.All this salesman have to say, we can’t match Audiogon and audiomart, and say thank you for visiting us.My experience going to a highend audio store is even worse than tubebuffer, Iam from Asia , live in the states for 45 yrs , I remember being treated like this without even opening my mouth, the truth salesman asses those who can afford and those who can’t, It hurts because , the guy saw me driving Sentra Nissan.Since I started Benz I get more respect on any audio store I go.Now that Iam capable of buying , I never go back to those store, they end up close 5yrs ago.
Tubebuffer go online don’t go back to that store, Music direct has 60 days trial, many do have 30days trial, But please don’t abuse them, Call Tom he is a nice salesman, he can help you..
+1 @jayctoy I agree with the other analyses here (about tire-kicking, etc.), and I do understand why the salesman would have felt like their time was being wasted. BUT...the customer has at least come into the store and how long could it take to say a sentence or two? Simply ghosting on the OP doesn't really do anyone any good, though it might have felt satisfying.
Ouch. You tried to sound like you were in control and they dissed you like a bum. They’re probably turning over kit with five figure net profits and don’t need or want your business. I hate that high-end snob bs though and wouldn't give them the time of day for that rudeness.
The OP was interested in the complete system. A more proper approach would be to ask if a system discount would be available without mentioning AudiogoN or AudioMart. With his answer you could have said that I will talk it over with my wife and get back to you. Do some quick research on the components you want and how much it will cost to get them all to your home using AudiogoN & AudioMart. You might find that having a local dealer is a better investment in the long run, as if something goes wrong you have recourse.
dill, the OP was "ready to throw down "some coin". Interested in "sweet pieces" although never relegated intent toward's a complete whole system purchase. Otherwise, I fully agree with your suggested approach. The OP should (may) add more relevance as to satisfy us member's feedback. ebm, are you suggesting the OP is a potatoe brain?
This strikes me as trolling the OP signed up here today and posted on the systems page a boombox. The system post was amusing in isolation but combined with this post seems like he's just here to troll.
Thank you I enjoy good feedback and straight criticism of this process. Perhaps I am not as skill as some of you gentlemen in this area. Perhaps I am just too much man for some of these hobbies. My wife says I should put small speakers in the gym, but I have a fondness for the Maggie speaker sound. From the sound of tones, some of you don’t negotiate on these goods, and others have tried and been filled with shame and fear. I get it. It sounds like a few know how to lay down the law.If I want to buy a house I tell the salesperson that the neighbors house is not kept up as it could be. I sight the crime statistics if it helps build my case for better price for me. They do the same to me but the other way. If I buy a car I show up driving the car on loan from a different dealer. He knows I have options. I told this audio guy that there is plenty of great gear in Audiogon but I like his system too. I will go back and tell that guy I am not paying more than I think is fair. As miller said I will not continue to be the bird in the bush, but will spread my wings and become the bird in his hand. Then he and I can make small talk and I will get my price by seeing how he does in his own ring. Thank you all for being in this process with me.
This is the exact reason that I do not go to visit dealers to waste their time and I manufacturer audio products and know the dealers personally.
I don't understand what price you were looking for as the audio sites are typically used components. Were you looking for them to match used prices? How would that work with you buying a car?
BUT the sales person could have simply asked what exactly are you looking for? He then could have said this is the price for those pieces.
Recently a potential customer heard my phono stage in his home for a trial period. After two weeks I needed to get it back so other people to hear it. He told me that it was amazing and blew away his current reference phono stage. He then came to my house with some of his real-to-real equipment for my partner to repair. He heard my system and asked about the "best price" I would see the phono stage for. The parts alone cost me (at my prices) $2800. He wanted me to sell it for $3000. It just beat the crap out of his reference phono which was over $8000 or more. I do not get insulted with these types of people but I tell them thanks but no thanks.
Ouch. You tried to sound like you were in control and they dissed you
like a bum. They’re probably turning over kit with five figure net
profits and don’t need or want your business. I hate that high-end snob
bs though and wouldn't give them the time of day for that rudeness.
You have no idea who they are or what the situation was, as you weren't there.
then you project into it and hang these people without knowing a single thing.
tubebuffer, very well wrirtten treatise. Although, you describe yourself as a hard-ball negotiator. You have your' right for that, but why complain and more so, show that tou were shut down by professionals?
" Perhaps I am not as skill as some of you gentlemen in this area. Perhaps I am just too much man for some of these hobbies." What the heck does that mean?
"I told this audio guy that there is plenty of great gear in Audiogon but I like his system too. I will go back and tell that guy I am not paying more than I think is fair."
Stregth in opinion does not necessitate rudeness. My� comment, "PURE CHINTZIPHILE," was rude. I apologize for that.
It doesn’t have to be a manly contest, nor a game. Try authentically making a new friend and don’t make the deal the greatest thing to come out of it. You may find the wealth of knowledge of the dealership’s employees to be a huge benefit in the future.
Anyone who sounds arrogant or too proud gets the smack down around here. The guys on this forum almost always want to help, even if information and advice can be conflicting. No one has cause to doubt your manliness, but frankly, that has nothing to do with it.
Try this on for size; meekness is strength. Meekness puts the other person first, not self. It takes into consideration the needs of others and attempts to moderate one’s own tendency to dominate or control. It actually takes strength to be self-confident without being a loudmouth or obnoxious. Many men would do well to consider strength of character that goes beyond the typical male persona. Some of the most impressive men I have met are not out to be Alpha Males, but strong marriage partners, great fathers, considerate persons and sensible leaders, etc. No one pushes these guys around, but they don’t have to prove anything, either. If you are new to this, be a student, especially of new gear that you are unfamiliar with. Don’t see the dealer as an obstacle, but a resource (not to be abused).
One last thing; as someone who literally builds hundreds of systems, if you want to go it alone, be the man about it making his own decisions independent of others’, i.e. dealer input, etc. you likely will not end up with a great system, especially if you are new at this. Pride and lack of experience are imo the biggest reasons people make huge mistakes in establishing audio systems. So, if you are just getting rolling, and you don’t have a clue why you like some rigs better/more appealing than others, it would pay to ratchet back the confrontational bargaining.
I suggest you go back to the dealer, offer an apology for coming off poorly, tell them your budget range and ask to be taught. The odds are better than average that it would be superior to a system you would cobble together online. After all, you did find it impressive enough to try bargaining.
Anyway, that’s my attempt at striking up a friendship that I started on my bad note. :)
“Ya the world would swing if I were king, can I help it if I Dream time to time... and when your bulldog barks and your canary sings, you’re out there with winners, it’s good to be king”
Regardless of how foolish you all think the OP was for taking the approach he did, it is equally foolish that the salesman disappeared and left the OP hanging without any resolution.
I could see it from different prospectives but to me the salesman dealt with it all wrong. Even if the guy came into the store intending to be a tire kicker a lot of good salesmen can turn that into a customer. Granted I wouldn’t have spent a lot of time with him but how hard is it to say, “I can’t sale you new equipment with a warranty for close to the price of used equipment but if you are interested in buying today I could probably get you 10% off (or whatever discount he would be comfortable with) depending on what you buy.”
There is no call for just being rude. Maybe the salesman was just having a bad day 🤷🏼♂️
Anymore then 10% off retail at a private dealer and you are just being cheap and disrespectful. If you aren’t prepared to pay without some cheap line like “can you match Audiogon”. My opinion but that is just disrespectful. They have a business to run
Richmos I agree. That is a great way to guarantee not getting a sale and most likely loosing a potential future customer. I did sales for a while and was good at it. I always just tried to level with the customer and if someone offended me just remind myself that maybe they just aren’t very good at negotiating.
I remember early on being put off when a foreigner would come in and offer a stupid low price. Then I came to realize in some parts of the world that is just normal.
On the other hand, as many have said, the buyer should also realize the guy has a business to run.
Based on your self- described manner, acuity and pretensions, most audio dealers, salesmen and fellow humans would technically classify you as a putz. With a little work on your manner, sharpness and humbleness, you may be able to attain shmuck status.
Back in the back in the day when I was in sales that was called an opportunity. Ask the customer if he’s prepared to buy today and if so what’s his offer. Get a deposit to show seriousness and take it to the boss. The negotiation has just started. Not prepared to buy today, well sir, come back when you are and I will be happy to listen to any reasonable offer. Simple sales strategy.
Better to take responsibility for your own lack of success in this encounter than believing some speculative story about why the salesman left you hanging. You really have no idea, nor does anyone else here. I’d go back and tell the guy you are interested again... no need for games.
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