Negotiate good price

noble100 - Hilarious - glad to see you're spelling it correctly Tim

sokogear:"nobel100 - glad to see it's still there. Although I think the spelling is schmuck. Maybe just a dope."

Hello sokogear,

     I'm thinking you're kind of a schmuck, or at least kind of a putz, for even pointing out my misspelling.

But we're cool,
Tim

big NADs?

Having people over to run into my speakers JOKER!!

I take my damage Maggie’s back today and the dealer strike up a great conversation that ultimately really help me out.  He traded me in the damage set for a new pair after I decide to go with McIntosh rig for the speakers.  I was going to go with the big NAD’s like some of you like but for better sound I go with the McIntosh instead.  Only other update is that the dealer wife tells me she wants to come look at my setup to consider better placement and treatments.   

nobel100 - glad to see it's still there. Although I think the spelling is schmuck. Maybe just a dope.

i did not read all the comments made by the OP but i did read his loose analogy to how he buys real estate, and in my opinion it is a classic apples to cement blocks comparison.
you can beat the snot out of a real estate agent, and i have no problem with that, but i also bear in mind that the agent must take my offer "good" or "bad" to the seller, and the seller in turn can return with a counter offer or tell me to go pound sand.
the agent really could care the less whether or not i buy the house or not, there seems to always be a buyer for every seller in real estate, sort of a lid for every pot. and after the sale, so long as she disclosed what the law says she has to??  then the roof leaks, or the A/C quits?  hey baby its on you!  so drive a hard bargain if you can?  if you are lucky you live in an area where you can, in some markets, your kicking the tires means someone else has offered full price or 10% over asking and bought it out from under your expert negotiation.

as opposed to a seller of a product,  who has skin in the game so to speak. he has bricks and mortar to pay for, lights and insurance to keep paid, property tax, ambiance to keep current, etc. "and" he has to put up with my "whining" and "bitching" both before and after the sale. and also put up with a certain amount of grief from folks like me coming in the door, taking  up time, leaving, and coming back in time and again, only to buy it online for 50 bucks less.

compare that to the online seller, who can be a broker, reselling out of a regional warehouse, or maybe his own warehouse that may well be in an industrial area with as low rent as possible, barely lit up, using labor that knows little more than how to read a barcode. if the thing quits?  then what? maybe they handle the warranty claim, maybe the refer you to the manufacture, and likely will not provide you with a loaner to get you buy meanwhile you are waiting the round trip of your product.
there is nothing wrong with driving a hard bargain, just do it respectfully, and understand what and who you are dealing with and what you are getting in return.  there is a way to ask respectfully for his best dollar and be friendly, and a plethora of ways of making yourself into someone that he will never sell to under any circumstances.
you want the best deal?  tell him you don't need any warranty help from him, you don't need an invoice, and no help loading it up or installing it, and he will never see you again.... you can get a bottom line deal under those circumstances, so long as you shoulder all the risk and take up very little of his time.  i buy all manner of stuff from products to services using this method, everything from specialty building products, to atty legal fee's, to dr. visits,,, i am just prepared to shoulder all the risk, and they never talked to me.
somehow i don't think the OP wants to step up and take that level of risk.

sokogear:" noble100 - looks like they removed your earlier post. I liked that better :-)"

Hello sokogear,

     Your comment made me check, but it's still there on the first page of this thread.
     I'm just calling them as I see or hear them, keeping it simple and honest.

Later,
  Tim

Wow....douglas-schroeder, you nailed it. I stopped reading after that!
Hello.

noble100 - looks like they removed your earlier post. I liked that better :-)

     Where I'm from, we refer to insecure individuals that obviously lack  mental acuity, knowledge, experience, confidence, strength and humility, but adopt various pretensions in a misguided effort to compensate, as wannabes and posers. 
     These flawed individuals typically garner little sympathy, offering them constructive advice is usually viewed as futile, a few pointed and choice words of negative reinforcement are offered instead and we just walk on.
     My intent with this post was to do likewise.

Tim 

I'm on the salesman side of the equation. Not audio gear. Vented heating systems. I get the same thing. Tire kickers. That's okay but; I do have a strategy to employ when the customer doesn't seem to be moving forward. I insist that they buy SOMETHING from me so I can continue to invest my time in them! It has never failed. I'm not impatient with people. There are people who need to be nudged in the right direction when the time is right. I just had a guy who was begging me for a "deal". I told him "Buy from me and I'll work hard for my money". He did and so did I. I was at his house for 2.5 hours yesterday advising him on the installation that he is going to do. I gave him a $500.00 lifter pump (used but perfect) for no charge as he did buy three heaters from me. NOW, he is a nice guy and that goes far with me. I gave him $400.00 in free accessories because he was a gentleman and I liked the guy. Putting ones best foot forward is always the best policy. Joe 

Hilarious @noble100.

Why would someone say "do you match Audiogon prices?". That is a ridiculous question. Some dealers sell on Audiogon. You can ask a general question after speaking about a component or two and get tactfully determine if they discount. 

After they get to know you and like you, they'll tell you anything from no discounts to 15% (with some minor variation based on the manufacturer) in my experience with mid to high end stores. If they carry used gear, they probably are very aware and competitive with Audiogon in that area.

After all is said and done, you can make up your mind where the best value lies, not the cheapest price. Sometimes cheapest is best, but not usually. I have bought new, used from dealers, and only once from a very highly regarded private seller a box with no moving parts or switches (a phono stage). I like peace of mind, and in the instances of issues arising after the purchase, it is good to be able to go back to the person who sold it to you for help.  

At the end of the day, you want the best value, and I consider asking a question like that kind of obnoxious. That being said the salesman could have spent another 5-10 minutes sizing up your seriousness and he could have gotten specific with you and see if he scared you off, not the reverse.

Just lay the Maggies on their sides so she can see you, however she might suggest you put them back up straight sooner than you think.

Oh yes, the Maggie.  Big and flat like my first wife, except with big sweet voice, and clear purpose.  I just like all of the kind advice and positive feedback.  This the most positive group of people I’ve ever met in a audio forum.  I pay full price for the Maggie and got a great deal on a powerful demo amplifier NAD and some good cable to rig it all together.
i very satisfied with the system and the  speaker mate well with my old B&W subwoofer.  The only thing now is my wife complain that the speaker block and she can’t watch me bench press while she run on the treadmill. I now looking to staple them up on side walls to get out of the way.  

You’re confused by the dealer’s approach?  Okay, I’m confused by your confrontational approach. Rather than throwing out the name of a site that sells used equipment, simply ask if there if there would be any discount if buying the entire system or with cash. Unless you’re a long time repeat customer, or you’re buying a lot of equipment at one time, OR you’re offering a way to not cost the dealer money through credit card use - you tell me why you should get a discount. It has to be a win - win situation. It doesn’t do anyone any good if the dealer gives smoking hot deals to everyone and goes out of business because they can't make enough money to stay open.

I didn't realize White Goodman was a real guy! 

Tubebuffer,
Not surprised you specifically mentioned putting speakers in your gym.Honestly, I think your style is more suited to buying used cars, than it is for negotiating the purchase of audio equipment.Honesty, an understanding of the market and a less aggressive approach would get better results.

Yeah you told those guys off.The store owner never loses ,the salesmen do .

Any dealer who answers the question, "What is your best price?" is a fool.
Any sales person who cannot answer that question with a question needs to pump gas for a living.

Any decent salesperson would have asked, "What do you have in mind?"
This one might have been working for a dealer with lots of tire kickers.
My local store has Saturday's reserved for appointments.  I like the idea, because it keeps you out, so we can talk.

I agree with most of the respondents here. Your attitude that you are a "manly negotiator in a feminine hobby"  speaks volumes of the respect you offered the dealer and you got the response you deserved. 

You exemplify the low baller mentality. I'll post something on Audiogon for sale that was $4000.00  Price it for sale at $2000. half price then I get the Low Baller offers say a $1000.00 which is politely refused.. I'm sure you can guess the next thing is "what's you best price" my reply is always  "I'm not interested in negotiating against myself" Please make a realistic offer..That'll be the last I hear from that one.

And you do realize that the Dealer is selling you new gear with a warranty and Audiogon or USA Audio Mart are for the most part  individuals selling their Used Gear?

Unless the selling price is already a terrific deal I usually ask the seller if there is any wiggle room on the price. I don't approach a seller with attitude or a take it or leave it proposition. They can either discount an item or not, thats their choice. I have had some very good experiences buying from retailers and private sellers by just being respectful and sincere and making a fair offer. 

The markup of audio gear is steep. The better model is direct sales and free returns. Most modern businesses have moved to this.  I understand you want to listen before you buy it. The stuff will sound different in your room. If someone sets up a service to demo stuff in your room pay them for the service it can be 20% of the price or a flat fee. 

Tuberist, I wholeheartedly agree with your agreeing with Dill and MC. :-) 
Seriously though, this sounds just like cold calls I get asking for 400 CPUs or 1,000 RAM modules and want “best price”..... I wasted my time on a “sale” like that just once. Now I know better, as does that salesperson....
He probably had to phone a friend to share the comedy. 

"Sometimes I am simply too much man. I think she want time to stay around for while with those eyes."

Keep on dreaming. She is simply waiting for Slick Rick to come on.

Op, message me.. i can likely assist you and know some dealers. They like negotiation

Lol! I actually meant his other post at 10-26-2020 8:51pm!
And yep I do get the Borat comparison.

I can tell you from experience that the disappearing salesman had bigger fish to fry elsewhere in the store. My guess is that you had been to that store previously and were known as a stroker. You got your demo and were left alone to listen--that's something. The mistake here was not so much yours as his. When you asked him for a price he should have given you one and asked whether you wanted it in the same color.I'm not sure I'd keep either of you in my store for longer than necessary.

Mr Pgaulkie, I believe the other man with wife probably not not want me to be in the room with his wife.  Sometimes I am simply too much man. I think she want time to stay around for while with those eyes.
Tyray, please a compliment to Mr Schroeder is compliment to me.  He is fine man with me.  Please enjoy your audio reproduction system and perhaps you and yours make another.

Anybody that kicks you out of the room because somebody else wants to get in there doesn't deserve your money.  No reason you couldn't listen along with the other prospective customer.  If they are interested in a sale, treat you as a sale, today or tomorrow.  I've never purchased anything on first pass in my dealer's audio paradise. But over time I have come back time and time again and ultimately spent and continue to spend a boatload of money (for me).  It is about relationships, not just sales.

@tubebuffer,
I’ve been taught to always try to give anyone the benefit of the doubt. But after seeing your comment of:

I’m always cruising these pages looking for next best tweak for my box.

I have to agree with what everyone has to say here. How is that possible? These Agoners take their audio very seriously and I hope you may have learned something?

@douglas_schroeder,
The above, nice.

I know this is off topic here but I read your upgrade/review of the Kinki Studio EX-M1(+?) integrated amp. At the time of reading I had no idea what OP Amps were.

Thanks to you, I know what they are, the different manufacturer types, how they perform and after watching this you tube video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Rs-1KPxFL8 (in german of course) how to install them.

Very informative indeed and I’m sure the OP (or anyone else?) doesn’t give a flip if this is off topic.

in this age of covid i guess this is what passes for entertainment

this is the future we all looked forward to, right???

Crash Test Dummies... so many bands come to mind....

Loverboy, or maybe Cheap Trick for the demo ?

I would think an omnipotent omnidirectional speaker would be better suited to the gym audio environment.. that Magneplaners dipole is going to struggle with all that movement, mirrors, gold chains and baby oil.....

I think a big pair of MBL with matching amps would suit you better - just lift the amps, no need for a weight set...

The eve of the night to be the kindest most respectful customer to get a good price on my Maggie system has arrived. I want to thank many of you again for being a positive influence on my process and others for being true to yourselves even if hateful.  If I line you all up I bet those most endowed would be those that most helpful and those little peanut nubbin call me monster troll.  I am big and handsome not big and ugly troll.
i have choices identified for demonstration with my wife tomorrow.  My pick is Stan Getz and João Gilberto Girl from Ipanema. My wife favorite song with excellent midrange presence is Indian Girl by the Slick Rick.  One we both like to listen while my wife admire me in the gym is Iron Maiden Run for the Hills.  Do you recommend any other picks to demo my Maggie?

Hard to believe there are many smart people around here when they can swallow this one so easily? You guys heard from any Nigerian princes lately?

Oz

This has been the best read. Thanks. US and A! High five. 

Agreed, 100% troll, but not a waste if everyone's time. This produced dialog of what could /should happen if these situations should arise. Personally I would not waste a dealer's time if I wasn't planning on purchasing at that dealer. To me that would be insulting. 

The only way I'm stumped with the OP is if he is in the customers' pov or the dealers'? I'm guessing dealers'. He wants to show how ridiculous it is when customers act that way. Now we are all proving his point. Mission accomplished. He and his friends are probably reading this thread and laughing at it. 

Is trying to outdo/outsmart a salesman (audio, car, house) some sort of a hobby?

Yes it is. An ego boost when they score.

Off the audio topic, but similar type of people. I was a home improvement contractor for 42 years and have seen a lot. I was at a potential customers house looking at a room addition project they wanted done. Commented on their hardwood flooring that looked like a fresh resurface. One of the nicest jobs I've seen. The husband and wife proceeded to give each other a high five and told me how they got their floors done for nothing. I asked how that happened. They told me the contractor was an immigrant and told them that if they didn't like the job they didn't have to pay. 
I'm glad that came out sooner than later. Never found out who the unlucky contractor was that did the addition.

Is trying to outdo/outsmart a salesman (audio, car, house) some sort of a hobby?

If you need to think of tactics to buy, just pick cheaper items you can afford. You will save time and money. And time is money so you will save money and money. Which is much more than just money which you were trying to save by playing this game for those who value their time as if they have unlimited supply of it.

Totally agree with kingbr! Nothing like the excitement of driving home with a new sound system and "are you willing to work with?" me is a great way to test the waters to see if there is a bit of wiggle room without insulting the dealer! I love it!!

I totally agree with redwood audio's response. Don't feel bad as the salesperson's manager apparently jumped to the conclusion that you were a "no go" and decided to move on.  With sales, salespeople size you up as noted by the person driving Nissan Sentra (cost conscious, efficiency minded) versus the Benz (money to blow, higher income bracket). Not necessarily accurate but people do make assumptions.  Now that your actions have been analyzed by others in the forum, I would do my research prior to the visit and proceed with a mindset that "less is more" meaning don't feel obligated to say more than you need to. Let's say if the equipment you like comes to $10k retail and your budget is $8k, tell the saleperson, then be an active listener.  See what transpires as they may offer less WPC, a different piece etc., and simply mention I do not want to get home and be disappointed as I have my heart set on this exact set up.  They may have alternative solutions such as a gently used piece of equipment taken in on trade that can be discounted so you get more bang for your buck and reach your price point with both new and/or used. A reputable dealer will want your future business and word of mouth advertising helps when people are happy!  I bet once you mentioned Audiogon, they simply concluded you were a bargain sampling new to purchase used and they figured you were wasting their time. Businesses have operational expenses including rent or mortgage which can be very expensive, employee wages, utilities,taxes, insurance, inventory, paving or sealing parking lot, advertising, cleaning, security system fees etc., which is not cheap and my thoughts are they deserve profit for bringing musical joy to our ears and our lives.  And the profit margin is probably not as high as one may think. To me, quality sound is priceless and I will pay for the joy a great system brings to me to enhance my quality of life in this crazy world we live in! Opinions are like buttholes, we all have them and some people are! I'm sure I will be criticized for my opinion but at least we can speak our minds and criticism makes our skin a little tougher which is good! As redwood said there is no need for games. Make it a win-win situation and if you pay $1000 more than you had hoped and keep the system 10 years, your quality of life has been enhanced by $100 per year which is well worth it! Life is too short and you only live once so enjoy!

Hi All,
So most recently I ran into a situation where I ended up selling off my Dynaudio Excites for all new Evokes. It started because I bought one of the last pairs of X44's (I had the X38's) in black satin via Ebay. I got a call from the dealer (who happened to only be 1 state over from me - drivable distance). He made a mistake and he had the 44's in Rosewood not black. He offered an even deeper discount but I told him I was the OCD type and cannot have mixed colors as the rest of my Excites were black satin. He then said "well have you listened to Evoke"? Told him I wasn't interested at all. He mentioned he could give me a "nice little discount on Evoke 50's" in black now my set matches. Except with the OCD thing I can't mix lines either. He laughed and said he understood "even though they'd all be matched timbre wise" and it's not like they'd sound different. I said no but thank you because then if I went with the Evokes I'd have to sell all my Excites and get an all new 5 channel Evoke setup. He then asked where I was and when I told him, he said if I'd like to take a ride down, listen to Evoke (because he was sure I'd love them after having a great chat about the old Audience line and how the Excites just weren't near what I experienced with my Audience line back in the day), he'd make it "worth my while". I said honestly man it'd have to be pretty ridiculous because the last thing I want to do is pack up, list, ship my 38's, 28C, and 14's. He understood and said "trust me just let me know when you're coming so I can have the Evokes set up and I promise to take great care of you...I grabbed the wife the following Saturday, let him know I was coming. Well low and behold the Evokes blew me away! I cut right to the chase, okay what are we talking "He said how does 25% off the package (50's, 25C, 10's) sound? I was FLOORED of course, that's unheard of! I said "can I think about it"? He hesitated and was like well, we set these up put the package together hoping this would make it work today. Needless to say I was like ya crazy for me to even ask that, I said "f--k it, let's do it"! I thanked him wholeheartedly for his time and generosity, drove around the corner to his WH and drove home giddy as a 6 year old at Christmas! 

One thing I always do BEFORE auditioning is asking about "willingness to work with me". If they won't budge at all, I won't go and waste their time. That's why I always call first and see if they negotiate...