Manufacturers

Hi @Chrisoshea237-

 

I've been trying to buy from a retailer not a manufacture. I'm def not a tire kicker and buy a fair amount of equip on a regular basis. I also used to work in the CE industry for a decade and ran a nine store high end chain. I also ran a BMW and a Porsche dealership. It was always about follow up, taking each customer seriously and working efficiently toward helping and potentially selling them something. Yes, we sometimes had people that were "researching" and not ready to buy- but most were and being responsive and actively selling, being engaged was what it was all about. No-one should have to struggle to make an expensive purchase, or put up with no returned calls, foot dragging, disinterested attitudes etc. 

Well, l guess l’m not the only one not getting any call back after a couple of emails sent to owner of a tube amp company out here in Northern California, and what burned me up is that l talked with the owner on the phone as well and we agreed on the day that l would take a hour drive to his place of business,then l called him to confirm the appointment only to be told he would get back to me and that was a WEEK AGO, now l understand that there is a virus going around, but we can make arrangements like leaving it on the hood of my car and me walking back 6 feet or more. but l will call them one more time and if l don’t get a response l will only have BAD things to say about there service policy.
wish me luck. this will be my 3rd call and 5th email.

@ cowan217
 congratulate to made good choice , but  if you in Brooklyn or close
i invite to stop by my place for 10-15 min , i don t think you try to rich my
Co,  it was somebody else . besides very famous De Vore and Ohm and very small boutique my brand , nobody else make speakers in Brooklyn  

Thanks everyone for your feedback, perspective and advice. I ended up upgrading my Harbeth 30.2 to HL5 Super Plus and am expecting them in a few days. I'm sure they'll be great. The dealer I worked with was great, texted, emailed, called, handled pick up of mine, shipped his quickly etc. 

Looking forward to breaking them in ! 

I believe he did call him,and FB etc.
I think you should hop on his FB page and put it out there.
I bet he responds in some kind of way.
But,it is better to find out now how he interacts ..before you buy!
Spend your $9G with someone more worthy!!

I've worked for a lot of different manufacturers in hi fi and pro, large and small.  Some of this "ignoring" thing or not answering thing is not intentional.  One could look from afar and say "they should do this or do that", but my experience is that manufacturing is a never ending shit show of problems no matter whom you are.  Its incredibly difficult to build things and manage all the parts purchasing and subcontracting you must do, chase down the errors that occur, plus also do sales, marketing, shipping, exporting, packaging, plus everything else.  Aye yi!  Some pick and choose what they can accomplish because they honestly cannot accomplish it all. 

So my advice is, if you cannot get an answer from email,  call them.  For some of the boomers, email can be a very tedious process.  Get them on the phone and they respond immediately.
Brad  

@bjesien 
is not, you know is very hard to keep audio store or show room and pay rent . we have  a lot audio dealers in NYC and NJ  which  made show room in  private house . 
I have  storefront   business  in Brooklyn to selling plumbing supply and made good show audio room inside,  Good location 5min from BQU, 6 days in week, no appointment required  

Was the owner selling them out of a white windowless van in parking lots?

Hi Everyone, Original post was not in reference to Bache Speakers but thought to share my experience.
Greg owner of Bache is a speaker genius. I have owned dozens of speakers from 100 to 25k. I currently own his Tribeca and it is better than anything I've had in my challenging listening space. 
More importantly customer service is BEST I've ever had (although Greg is from Russia and English is a second or third language). Only customer service equal to Bach (IMHO) is Wolf Audio systems. owner, Joe Parvey.
These 2 companies is what makes this hobby so special. Their passion and care is simply unparalleled in any industry.
Greg is s speaker expert, crossovers, design. and he answers all inquires immediately, even volunteers inexpensive upgrades.
I am a proud own of the Tribeca for 3 years now and never see myself selling these amazing speakers that match well w/ any amplification (SS or tube).
Anyone reading this in the NY/NJ area owes it to themselves to demo a pair.
 BTW I have no affiliation w/ Bache or Wolf just sharing my stellar experience w/ both companies.
Wish all much peace & happy listening

+1 @firstonetallguy 
Every action has a consequence, some are good and some are bad.
The consequence of you "getting it" wrt creating a culture of customer service was the difference between your company being the "oldest establishment of this kind in the state" while " selling our product at a higher cost than most of our competitors " and the 10-20 of your competitors that dropped off the map every year.  Well done! 

This is a very interesting thread. It made me think of all the attempts I had in the past to get in contact with the owner or manufacture or supplier about an item that, for whatever reason, I needed to discuss. I remember all of those that handled my inquiry within a reasonable time and I try to remember all those who did not. I just do not buy from the negative ones.
This may seem like an insignificant thing to many, after all, how is losing one customer that important. There are always others, right? Well, maybe and maybe not.
I retired this year after working and owning a small service and product business. We opened our doors in 1982. When I closed, we were the oldest establishment of this kind in the state. When the yellow pages were in existence, I noted that every year there were 10 to 20 new listings of similar businesses selling the same services and 10 to 20 old business no longer listed.
We tried hard to do our job very well and we were always selling our product at a higher cost than most of our competitors. I know; I checked. There others who were as good as we were but they did not last. Why?
The only thing that I think was different was our service. Whenever a possible customer called with questions, the secretary was instructed to get with the boss, me. If I was unavailable, she was to answer what she could or have someone else answer. If no one knew the answer, she got their phone number and I called as soon as I was available. I had the secretary continue calling, until we did get hold of them. If someone, other than me, answered the question, she was to get their phone number and I would call back at a time convenient to the customer. I verified that all her questions were answered, 95% of our calls started with women.
This just seemed to be the right thing to do at the time. I guess it still is.

@mammothguy54, et all....I wholeheartedly agree with all of your commentary, really....

The ’little fishes in the big pond’ can and do compete by being more responsive and that much more sota than the bigger players. Some are better than others, but the fact that they manage to endure and stay in the field is a testament to their commitment to service as well as product.

If one has to be a tad more patient, it may be a small price to pay for the preferred item. ;)

Personal case in point, of some relevance....we just lost out on a project we bid in FL for items to enhance a hiking trail, as an addition to the company that ’does trails’ in subdivisions.

The fact that we lost out (by just a small figure, and a larger one) to the worlds’ largest company (based in Germany) of competing items....

We’ll take that as an ’off-hand compliment’, even as a loss on our part.

The winner is HUGE, in size and number of employees...full page color ads in major publications in our field and related.  We're 'word of mouth', and primarely an internet based sales player.

The federal government doesn’t classify us as a ’small business’; rather, we fall into the ’microbusiness’ catagory.

We’re the ant next to the elephants’ foot. And we nearly ate it’s lunch...well, more likely, it’s doughnut of relative size...

(Proving, once again, the ant Can run up that leg and give the ’phant a bite where it counts..*snicker*G*)

Competativelly yours, J

I have been a audiophile for 30 years and have had mostly positive experiences dealing with small audio manufacturers based in the United States. And mostly bad ones with some highly regarded  very large manufacturers. A small example of this is VPI turntables.Matt and his dad Harry are 2 of the most helpful, friendly and information people in this industry today. Although I have not been up to their office in Cliffwood  NJ since before  the pandemic, I will tell you that they treat all
of their customers like friends. The first time I went in there, Matt took me on a tour of the manufacturing facility. We then talked all things Audio for about an hour and I listened in as he talked to his staff about the best cartridge recommendations when customers call the office——amazing!  I once took my Classic 3 to have my new cartridge installed, fully expecting to pay dearly for this.
And to my surprise Harry himself did the install —-free of charge and then  he took be over the the VPI demo house to listen to records on it. It doesn’t get any better then that ! 

And also Manley Labs.  I bought a Manley Chinook (phono stage) and it had a catastrophic failure in one channel, within a month.  I got a new replacement unit from the dealer, approved by Manley Labs.  After about 2 weeks the owner, EveAnna Manley herself, contacted me to be certain that I was satisfied and everything was functioning as it should be.  I felt that personal touch and respect it greatly.  I love the product performance and greatly appreciate the company. Absolutely first class!  

I have had the same high quality experience with Balanced Audio Technology (BAT).  One of the owners (Steve), and even the primary design engineer (Viktor) have spent time with me on the phone.  Excellent advice, tremendous help, very personable, absolute follow-through.  Awesome company in all of those respects, and the products sound fabulous.

@mammothguy54 ++++ infinity
Amen :-) ditto Vandersteen, Ayre, Music Reference, Herron, Brinkmann, Triplaner, SOTA, .....Aesthetix 

I don't care how small of a company you are.  Too many opportunities were given this speaker company for all of them to be ignored.  Once or even twice would likely have a good explanation.  But from what the OP described that speaker company is simply not a well run business.  I would not give them my business and hard earned dollars.  There are plenty of other very good options to choose from.  Absolutely no excuse, on their part.

This is a good example of a small company, who does care.  I recently began doing business with Symposium Acoustics.  I found their vibration control products to be exceptionally good.  The owner, Peter, is very personable, easy to speak with, and is always willing to provide information and guidance to the best solution for you individual needs.  I have spoken directly with him a number of times.  If I call and he is busy with another customer he promises to call me back.  And he does, typically the same day.  Everything he has provided me with in quality product, help, and good follow-through is why I have been a repeat customer and have now spent about $4,500 with him.  There are other options for vibration control, but Symposium Acoustics, and Peter specifically, has earned my business.  And it will stay that way.

@cowan    Sorry if you try to rich my Bache speaker Co, i am happy to get inquire from NYC residents and Brooklyn especially . we are in Brooklyn and have show -listening room located in Sunset Park open for public ,  No sign yet , but we gonna put very soon 

@asvjerry

The ’small co.’ doesn’t have that luxury; likely doesn’t have Any.
Weekends for the little company guy exists as a concept, and happen when they do, despite what the calendar may show....;)

Truth to what you say, especially for successful entities, but there are also upsides to sole proprietorships such as not answering to anyone or to a group, scheduling your own day, quicker response to market trends, etc. Some who own small companies are people-people and some are techno-introverts....i.e., the very characteristics that make them good at designing keeps them from embracing all facets of customer service. A few are good at both.

One example is SMc Audio with Steve McCormack and his associate Patrick, who are both extremely friendly and responsive and who do great work. They took time to have a few conversations with me years prior to me ever using their service. I have now had them perform all-out upgrades on one preamp and two different amplifiers and the preamp and one set of monoblocks still reside in my system. Successful and responsive communication can occur at smaller sole proprietor type companies but it requires time management/prioritization, focus on the work, and the ability to distinguish between actual prospects vs. habitual tire-kickers while treating both with respect. Other examples, at least in my world, have been Michael Kelly at Aerial Acoustics and Cees Ruijtenberg at Metrum Acoustics (now at Sonnet Digital Audio).

On the other side of the coin, for years I owned CD/DVD players from a small company owned by a talented and well-regarded designer who had been influential in the early digital audio world. I actually had two of their players upgraded by the company. While the sound of their players beat out several well-regarded competitors in my system, communication with the company was difficult and it was clear the owner/designer was the only person allowed make decisions (an autocratic culture), and that owner didn’t seem to like interacting with other people. When I finally sold my last player of theirs, regardless of how good they sounded, I never missed the communication difficulties or the feeling that getting service (if needed) might be difficult.

By from his biggest competitor and send a copy of your receipt with no name or any of your personal info with a note: I tried to buy them from you, but no one seemed to care enough to respond or take my money. 
At least you let them know they dropped the ball. Most of the time, I wouldn't even care to mention it to them. If they are too dumb to figure out how to run a business, then maybe they should be gone.


Best regards,

Customer with cash

To bad you didn’t demo any Bache speakers before getting the Harbeths. I demoed the M30.2’s twice before getting the  Bache Audio Tribeca’s.

I have a number of high-end van den Hul cartridges and the wonderful Grail phono amp.  When deliberating on the latter, I emailed vdH and got a detailed reply from AJ himself.  This led to a short exchange and I ended up buying the amp.  AJ emailed me asking me to get back to him when I had it up and running to tell him what I thought.

AJ is now over 80.  The success of his company is in no small way due to his marketing skills, outgoing personality, energy and just being a downright nice guy.

i run into that sometimes, with this hobby, or with others like cars, bikes, food/restaurants (pre covid of course)

sometimes when there is no reply for no good reason are my diligent efforts to pursue, i just move on .... sometimes some things are just not meant to be

lots of fish in the ocean

Yes, the CO co. gentleman's 'got people' to perhaps give him the time to chat and have the time available for 'that Personal Touch'...a wonderful sales tatic....

The 'small co.' doesn't have that luxury; likely doesn't have Any.
Weekends for the little company guy exists as a concept, and happen when they do, despite what the calendar may show....;)

Well, I think the owner’s behavior is understandable. Some people don’t want their business to be their whole life, and like to have versatile life... by the way the Colorado based guy looks kind a bounded to me :)

Forget about manufacturer, they at least have things to do.

About two years ago, I called a store, real brick-and-mortar store to be clear. I wanted to buy a CD player and asked where could I see it and very likely pick it up. I was ready do drive a few hours to get it. Well, maybe in our location closer to you. Well, but it is almost a holiday. Well, the guy will come there after the holiday. Well, we’ll call you when we are ready.

I guess they were never ready.

After a few months, I remembered the CD player again and bought it from a dealer a number of states away.

What is the store for, if not to communicate with customers?

Are they still accepting orders?  Maybe they are out of business.  Remember counterpoint?  Mike had the website up for three years even though he was not doing any upgrades or repairs.

Go figure.

If you have been attempting to open a discourse with Professor I. Lirpa in regard to...

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/test-report-lirpa-labs-liberty-freedom-1776-fy-tower-speakers...

Well, good luck with that.

Otherwise your situation is a bit odd, but these are far from normal times with hundreds of thousands of people recently deceased stateside along with millions and millions and millions of people currently infected with the same virus that killed the 200,000+ previously mentioned.

DeKay

 had great success talking to the owners of Raven Audio, Tekton, Magnepan, Focal, and Viking Acoustic.  I find the smaller boutique companies are way more responsive.  I hate when I don't get a response from emails from Companies.  I love Lumin and have owned multiple Luminn DAC / Streamers including the X-1 but I have had absolutely no luck in getting them to return any questions I have.  That really bothers me.  

Not all people are good communicators.

And burn out from decades (depending on how long the business has been around) of entertaining tire kickers does tend to be a thing, you know......

When Goo Systems was principally connected to the Tri-Art offices, I was the phone guy for almost 5 years straight.

At the end, I was basically curled up into the fetal position, under the desk ...and incapable of taking even one more phone call. With at least 50 waiting messages in the system.

Each one of them wanting me to talk home theater with them, for hours, if not days. Each.

Each wanting to drain my brain on any and all parts of acoustics, video screen technology, human hearing, human vision, projection technology, noise control, room isolation, room set up, equipment choices, cable choices, and so on.

We ended up with someone else on the phone, in fairly short order... as I was burned out and it took years before I would touch another phone again.

+1 @steakster 

It's like that old advice about relationships. Don't think you can change "him" or "her" later. When someone tells you who they are, believe them.

No, not Devore, some
other brand

At the end of the day, you and only you can decide what is important, and then you have the privilege of voting with your wallet.
Any business owner that doesn't recognize the value of responding quickly and effectively to their clients and prospects will never achieve the level of greatness they could otherwise achieve, regardless of how good their product is.    

thecarpathian1,805 posts10-01-2020 12:56pm

Talking about Devore?

John Devore answered an email from me within minutes...

Audiotroy,
I thought it was Bache too. Just curious...are you posting from your phone lately? Your spelling has been uncharacteristically sloppy. 

For great U.S. made speakers and excellent service right from the owner consider Salk Sound. Jim Salk is fantastic to speak with. Also check out Daedalus speakers (a little higher end) and the owner Lou Hinkley he's another great resource. FYI

Paul responds to personal emails about non-products, etc. The fact remains that some company men do not possess the ability to communicate with the public (potential customers)
Like most politicians.
Move on.

None of those are legitimate excuses not to provide a customer with a response , or giving a terse response. How hard is it to put a message on a website, answering machine stating any of those

If (a) they're temporarily shut down, or (b) can't get parts so are stymied, or (c) can't keep up with demand, then yes, I guess, an inquiry may go unresponded to.

Talking about Devore?

If one sets up a business, one already commits to serving customers or at least responding to them and asking for their patience. And if one is too pressed to respond to them, then one should get out of business.

Perhaps this manufacturer in question is in reality Kenjit. It is the one truly perfect set of speakers in the whole world and he just can't bear to let them go.

You might want to consider yourself lucky. If the business is so under capitalized that they can’t respond to potential customer sales, imagine what the response (or lack there of) might be if  you needed help after the sale?

Not sure what the reference is to "Bache"? Not the brand I'm referring to but I won't name them here, not trying to burn a bridge or pointedly call out someone...Not sure if they have dealers but will explore. I bought the Harbeth 30.2 and love them and plan to keep them. The speakers that I've been trying to contact the manufacturer about are for another system in my home. 

If he has at least one pair finished and ready to go, his next step is to move them on then count the money.

Paul wrote a book or two, launched a music business 2

does Bache have dealers ?

" one.man business so.it is very challenging"
While that is true it doesn't excuse lack of appropriate follow-up with customers , that is unless you want negative publicity