Those are two great sounding amps. I went with Luxman, but only because the Luxman had some added features I liked that the Hegel did not have. Sound-wise? The Hegel might have an edge on controlling/powering full range floor standers, due to the extra power, but I have large bookshelves and a powered sub, so it's not a problem for me to crank it up. Wish I could give you more on a sound difference, but honestly, you won't be disappointed with either.
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I have the B&W 705 Signature bookshelf speakers. So, either one in the power output dept. should be quite sufficient. Now , it all just really comes down to SQ, both have some terrific reviews then just a sprinkling of not so stellar ones. For the Luxman 507 , just how much does it give up to it's sibling 509x in terms of transparency, detail and air between the instruments/vocals . With that in mind , does it have the edge there or lack of compared to the Hegel H390?. As for the Hegel H390, why so many on the used market anyhow, putting the issue of aesthetics in the long term , are people selling due to a tiresome possibly dark and dour SQ in time ?. |
Erik _s, I see you have/had the 507 at one time. Just how was it with transparency and more importantly spatial presentation of the instruments/vocals including the palpable air in the recording venue. This particular aspect to the sound would be one of the defining aspects of a good amp compared to an average one.
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I think it does a great job, but depends on the recording and room. It does not etch their location in space. What it does is feel extended at the bottom and top end, making speakers sound like they go deeper and are smother long past the top of the speaker. Compared to very neutral amps like say Parasound, they sound like bigger, faster amps. Compared to Ayre, they don't have the same abyss from which music comes from. Very close in tone and temperament to the D'Agostinos. |
Both quality products. Hegel 390 may be better value. Includes streamer, DAC 250wpc, insane damping factor. $6,500. Plain looking. Lux 509- Has all the TT inputs, tone, balance, meters & beauty. Also better SQ. 120wpc. $10k. Hegel is a little dry by comparison. If you had a larger room with speakers that want power the Hegel may be the one. Otherwise your desired SQ description sounds like the Lux.
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Good input guys. For comparison purposes with the Lux and Hegel , listened to some demos with the Moon Audio 600i V2 & although spatially more expansive, it just does not have the smooth sweetness of note contours displayed by the others. In fact , I would safely bet. at least for my music tastes, the MA 600i to get rather tiresome in time. So, the process of elimination leaves in the Lux and Hegel while striking out other equally well rated amps with significantly different sound signatures. |
Google pictures of the internal wiring of the Japanese made Luxman 509 versus the Chinese made Hegel 390 and speculate on that evidence alone which has the build quality most likely to serve you best and longest. That Hegel seems to promote they are a Norwegian company and not mention where their amps are actually made is another consideration.
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The Luxamas, both the 507 and 509 are just a feast for the eyes. With either the blue tone of the display on the 507 or the plain white on the 509 being so visually appealing. Did Hegel take the Scandinavian prosaic minimalist approach in black a bit too far perhaps ?..I tend to believe this might explain so many 390s on the used market. Another one that surprised me lately, although a bit pricier , still might consider given its good looks and huge detail and spatial rendering is the Moon 600i V2 from Simaudio. However it lacks the sweet smooth nature of the 507/509. |
While I highly regard the two amps you’ve identified, and given your speakers I’d go with the Luxman, but if you’re possibly open to a tube front-end integrated I’d highly recommend looking at Octave and Unison Research hybrid amps. Those preamp tubes last forever, and I think their neutral yet tube magic will set your speakers free. That’s absolutely where I’d go, and you can fine-tune your sound with different tubes if desired/needed. Best of both worlds IMHO. |
One that is better in several areas and made in USA ,10 year warranty,5 years transferrable , and 3 power choices ,Coda CSIB integrated it has 18 -1st watts into pure class A then 150,300,600 wpc a sealed Potted very low noise 3,000 Va Transformer ,none ofthe competition have even 1/2. That ,over 120 amps on tap for ultimate control, mosfet, Fet,Burr Brown linear class A preamp section and 40 bipolor transistors on the output . Nelson Pass And these guys from Coda worked together with the classic Threshold stasis products ,Nelson went on his own And Coda was born Almost 30 years now in CA. -made in U.S.A America 🇺🇸 . for around $6500 or less ,it competes or bests everything out there at $10k+ . |
One that is better in several areas and made in USA ,10 year warranty,5 years transferrable , and 3 power choices ,Coda CSIB integrated it has 18 -1st watts into pure class A then 150,300,600 wpc a sealed Potted very low noise 3,000 Va Transformer ,none ofthe competition have even 1/2. That ,over 120 amps on tap for ultimate control, mosfet, Fet,Burr Brown linear class A preamp section and 40 bipolor transistors on the output . Nelson Pass And these guys from Coda worked together with the classic Threshold stasis products ,Nelson went on his own And Coda was born Almost 30 years now in CA. -made in U.S.A America 🇺🇸 . for around $6500 or less ,it competes or bests everything out there at $10k+ . |
After much consideration , carefully weighed with input from everyone here in mind.. The final nod went to the Luxman 509uxii . The more one looked at the Hegel , it became clear the aesthetic shortcomings not to mention the rather "heavy dense if not dour soiund" might pose issues in terms of long term ownership. Paid via paypal on ebay , 30 days to try it out , seller pays for return shipping if there is anything amiss, will have an audio tech give it a thorough check. Ended up paying a little over $7.5k incl. tax for the new item. It was after one more listen last night to an audio clip with the 509uxii, then all was clear, get this amp. Should be here in less than two weeks. I am so looking forward to having it in my system.
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my 2 cents i am a big hegel fan, they are wonderful amps for the purity of sound they deliver, but they are made in china to reduce cost and they hardly pass as audio jewelry in my experience, sonically they do not take a back seat to luxman's solid state, i personally believe the upper models marginally surpass the luxmans for bass control and treble purity (i have heard the 509x and 507 models) but i can understand, those attracted to luxman will usually not be attracted to hegel, and vice versa |
Congratulations on the Luxman L-509x. I don’t have experience with the Hegel but own the L-590AXII. It’s high quality in terms of sonic delivery and very good. The Luxman top models (509X and Class A 590AXII) not only sound musical but have high levels of refinement and detail. They sound closer to neutral and have a delicate refined touch as opposed to an energetic brute delivery of say Gryphon. The Luxman will let all the nuance and detail pass through to the speakers. Jjss49 mentioned about the lack of bass control of the 509X in comparison to the Hegel. As I don’t have experience with the hegel I can’t comment. Nevertheless, based on my 20+ years experience with more than a dozen amps which include integrated and pre power combinations, the bass accuracy and control of the Luxman beat them all. The bass of the Luxman may sound leaner and lighter than other amps which are capable of producing a fuller, thicker or punchier bass(which gives the impression of more bass). More bass can be seen as a good thing but the increased thick bass or midbass produced by inferior amps can sound bloated, unrefined or uncontrolled. In other words, a smeared undefined bass although the bass sounds more substantial. The bass of the Luxman is accurate, defined and controlled although it sounds slightly lean in comparison to the heavy bass response produced by other amps. You will hear all the detail and nuance in the bass with the Luxman while other amps which produce a fuller bass will mask the detail in the bass. Some costlier pre/power setups which I owned and currently own actually sound more colored/slightly inferior to the pure and musical delivery of the Luxman. The speaker and amp matching is of utmost importance and if you get that right, you will be immensely rewarded with a high quality sound from the Luxman. Just make sure your DAC or source is up to the mark and try to use good balanced interconnects if possible. Based on my limited experience I found that balanced XLR cables sound better than single-ended cables on the 590AXII. |
op says he has bought a luxman already, so this response is not regarding his choice of luxman (doubtlessly wise, no debate from me, luxman’s are excellent, have many many happy customers, clearly built to last) but just a few points to clarify on earlier posts
sorry @jjss49 didn’t say that ... @bigkidz did what @jjss49 did say is that he felt while both have excellent bass, he felt the hegel was marginally superior to the luxman in this regard - neither amp produces anything approaching bloated or slow bass
to be sure, buying a luxman (or a hegel) on ebay is pretty darned scary... mostly japanese sellers selling and shipping japan domestic market 100v pieces there... hopefully op did not err on this aspect... or if so hopefully he got a step-down tranny - granted op also did not state where he is located...
let’s see... why are there so many more honda accords on sale used compared to acura tlx’s... could be maybe because there are 8-10-x more units sold new? 🤔
this is very wrong ... anyhow, happy listening...
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The hegel 390 proved non agreeable on many fronts with further analysis. What are they trying to achieve with these looks , then the overly man handled sound , did they think the 250 w over 8ohm would somehow dazzle the masses ?? The Lux 509 on the other hand along with the Moon tbh were all polish on natural offerings......something a bit weird about hegel and off-putting before long as evidenced by the quick detachment factor leading to trade ins after a short period in time. If not for the Lux 509, would have been the 600i or even the 340x from Moon. The journey has been long and in the end rewarding ......the 509 a thing of beauty .....the hegel a weird creation of which I decline any part of .......the Moon offerings remain in the agreeable and desired list , could be switched here and there with my 509....just for kicks & why not.... Music is just the VE we seek in our lives ..........for that Luxman and Simaudio Moon check most if not al the boxes
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I went through a similar dilemma you experienced. I was a big fan McIntosh and B&W 800 series, Ioved the way their look and sound at a level of obsession. Everything has changed after I visited Axpona this year. I do not have a long history of audiophile experience but I wanted to build a good system in my budget. When I listened BW802 D4 combo with MC611 monoblocks sounded great but when I compared to Wilson Audio Sasha DAW and moon audio setup, suddenly BW MC setup lost its entire magic. Suddenly my dreams got shattered because despite I spent literally hours to prove myself BW MC can’t be clearly inferior to Wilson setup, it was clearly a better llok but way inferior sound quality. At the end I ended up getting Hegel 590 and Wilson Sasha DAW setup. I have no regrets. It is a magical experience especially if you like jazz, guitar, classic music. It is absolutely neutral, clear, incredible detail and sound stage. I paid 6K for a used one, but definitely worth every penny for 12K MSRP. It has very very good internal DAC, I connected a Bluesound Node. And suddenly I had complete system which sounded incredibly good. Later added a Denafrips Terminator Plus, it is absolutely music nirvana. My TV is connected to Node and it is a complete system. I have no interest to try any other amplifier whatsoever. I watch a lot of audio equipment reviews on you tube, Audio Excellence from Canada has many great reviews of Hegel. Also A British Audiophile has great reviews of Hegel. I watch hundreds of hours of reviews and went to Axpona simply because I lacked former high end audio experience. I never listened to Luxman but it has great reviews, definitely a more expensive gear compare to Hegel. Hegel is purist amplifier, no bass, treble, loudness or EQ. I liked to listen music as recorded, I find those adjustments as intrusion to original music, so that was not problem for me. I think Luxman has those options, it could be an important decision point for you. Hegel 590 is incredibly powerful amp, 301W at 8 ohms, possibly 600W and in 2000W range at 2 ohms, relentless power. My ears gives up after 80% volume which gets too consistently 100 decibel range. No distortion at high volumes. Never tried full volume, I am afraid it can blow speakers. I can highly recommend Hegel, even a used one, you can spend extra money for better speakers. After all, no matter what amplifier you have, your source-DAC and speakers are more important. I wish you good luck. |
Some additional points : Seller on ebay, 100% + feedback , will provide the step up transformer free of charge in the order. The magic of this hobby is when one is inundated with listening tests and reviews coming at you from all the major publications , there comes a pivotal point when the decision is made. This is the one to go with & that indeed happened to me when listening to some vocalists intently , all the realism in the world was there , along with an almost ethereal glow , such is what the Luxman 509 provides. In fact, I have saved money along the way going with the 509. So much so , a used Moon 600i or new 360x could be joining the L 509 in several months time. The contrast between these two amps will no doubt provide some future listening sessions surfeited with critical intrigue. As for speakers , after much testing .....the newer B&W - namely the D4 - models seem to have everything I find desirable and livable with a speaker. Seems just right to my ears. |
I have owned Hegel H190 and 390. I traded the H390 for a Mark Levinson No. 585. The build quality of the Levinson is on par with most any top tier amps on the market and trounces the Hegel which has stamped case. The Hegel signature sound of absolute neutrality is nice at first but a little boring after time. The Levinson is also a neutral leaning amp, but brings greater detail and texture to the sound and an effortless power delivery that the Hegel couldn't match. My next move will probably be an Esoteric which is on par with the Levinson and Luxman for build quality, if not as pretty as the Luxman, or as muscular as the Levinson. |
I currently have a Hegal 390, Pass labs intergated 250( a beast) and a Mac MA 352 hybrid. I find the Hegal to be very musical in my set up. I was very surprised how good it sounds in my room. The mac with its tubes just sounds magical at times. The Pass has the superb midrange and finesse. Im thinking of adding a luxman to hear what all the fuss is about. |
The ML 585 is the second favorite integrated amp that I have heard and could afford to buy at that time. My favorite was the KRELL K-300i which I bought and sold to get a KRELL 175XD stereo amp. I just sold that XD amp to raise funds to buy another more powerful XD amp in the near future. I preferred the ML 585 and the KRELL K-300i integrated to the Luxman 509x and the older Hegel 360. I was told by a ML dealer that the older ML 585 sounds better than the new ML 5000 series integrateds, though the new ones have a better internal DAC. |
Been auditioning for a bit. It came down to Luxman and Krell. Or even Simaudio as an owner but move up. Having a hard time with Luxman leading but I sort of can’t shake the Krell at the same time. What an awesome sounding int. How are the XD amps as not part of the INT. I see on the used market at around 50% or so. It’s a shame more haven’t auditioned the Krell stuff. I think it’s fantastic and their new monster amp is coming in a month or two. Love it even though just YouTube clip. Never got to hear the ML gear. You are going for 300XD?
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Maybe I am miss-reading your post but the K-300i was the very first XD amp. It was the gateway drug for me to move up 1 rung up on that lineup (175XD) and MAYBE I can afford to move to the top with the new KSA i400. That amp maybe going up in price due to rising costs of the metal casework (some supplier bad faith going on there). Anyways, if it all works out, I will have KEF Blade 2 Meta with the KSA i400. Both the 300i integrated and 175XD stereo amp I sold need more power for the Blades in the room I will put them in. BTW - There are 2 300XD on USAM for around $7K and under. This amp would work great for me, and I will get this if I cannot afford the i400.
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weare integrated amp specialists we currently sell coda, Hegel anthem krell unison ta and we used to sell luxman
the coda csib and the krellwould outperform the luxman and the krells dac and streamer are amazing and it would take a 5k external dac to beat the internal dac the coda is a bit more detailed then the krell but both are sensational the only product which beats all three is the t+a 2500r
Dave and Troy Audio intellect nj integrated amp specialists |
FWIW I've owned both of these and like them both a lot. I would say Luxman sounds more natural tonally with a clean and clear presentation that is also sweet, liquid, and a touch warm. Hegel also has a sweet, but a touch drier and meatier sound, a bit darker, more clearly defined soundstage, better control and bass authority. Maybe a little too much control, meaning tone seems to be subtly lacking some harmonic complexity and natural decay compared to Luxman. Luxman can sound a bit thin at times. Still, Hegel H390 is a great piece and I can't think of a better complete solution at the street price of < $5k new. |
I suggest you consider how much power you really need. I used to run a high power SS amp that was excellent. Now I find that 1.5 watts sounds much better than I thought anything could. Of courses, synergy, listening preferences and the partnering equipment you already own will shape your search. I have a friend who runs the 509 lux. IT is superb. Most of the time he doesn't even use full one watt of its capability. I mention this because at normal listening levels a low powered single ended triode is hard to beat. |
Good description eugene81. Although I do not have experience with Hegel amps, your description pretty much mirrors mine with regards to the Luxman in my case L-590AXII vs a dozen other assortment of amps both integrated and pre/power. The Luxman excels in reproducing the nuance and fine detail in the music. It’s a more delicate sounding amp in comparison to other alternatives which may sound bolder, more dynamic or with more impactful bass etc. But in turn some of the nuance and fine detail are masked or not reproduced as effectively as the Luxman. The speakers that will be matched to the amp will play a huge role too as the speaker-amp interface is of utmost importance. Different speakers, different result. Nevertheless, generally in my book : LUXMAN (L-590AXII) - clean, refined, delicate, detailed, sweet and slightly warm at the top OTHER SELECTED AMPS - slightly hazy, not as clean, refined and detailed with a less nuanced delivery although music may sound bolder or more dynamic with punchier bass etc. |
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Hegel is marketing their products as high end with without the high end price. No thick fancy faceplate, no power meters and if we compare them to entry amps of old, Adcom, B&K, anthem/sonic fronters even Rotel I would give the nod to Hegel. As to there being more used h390’s just look at the price difference. Luxman is up there while hegel int’s are still stepping stones in the big picture of hi end audio. Some of us can pay double for every 5-10% increase in sq and some of us are willing to pay thousands for a fancy faceplate. The Hegel line of integrateds are expensive, but not prohibitively so for those of us getting our feet wet in the hi end audio hobby and offer an audible improvement in quality at their price. Luxman, Accuphase, Gryphon, Krell, etc are a price and step above, but for many of us the hegel is as good as we’ll get. |
The price may not be high end costing up to say $20k or 30k but they are not exactly cheap. The MSRP of the H390 and H590 is $6k and $11k respectively which is far from small change. No doubt the sound quality may be stellar but for the price I would expect higher build quality from Hegel. Other people may have different priorities but for me, looks, build and sound quality go hand in hand. |
Just some updates on the recent Luxman 509x purchase. In addition to the most rewarding musical communication and deeply satisfying sound quality, the 509x has the highest WAF of all the audio components owned thus far. Something so reassuring about the tank like construction and impeccable build quality. Now, I did have the chance to listen briefly to a 590axii recently, this class A amp probably would have a serious contender if the 509x was unavailable to purchase. As for the money saved with the purchase of the 509x, had figured approx. $12k and ended up spending under $8k for it. With the saved money, I said what the heck and took up the offer of a very attractively priced Esoteric F-07 from a colleague. Took some bargaining before the we sealed the deal and the F-07 has been in the backup audio system for just over a week now. So far I have been convinced it is just a waste of time to try and pick winners or argue which is better of the two. Instead I consider what music genre plays better on either with their individual strengths in mind and the mood at the time. I was really fortunate to arrive at two great integrated amps in this recent project. For most anyone that is making a decision on "the" one amp , let your ears tell you what you should buy, be open to all options and most of all be prepared to be surprised. For me I had my sights set on a Moon 600i before hearing the Luxman 509x and next wondered how this amp was never on my radar before. I will end up by saying Blues and R&B has never sounded better to my ears than with the recently acquired Esoteric F-07. Whereas the Luxman 509x is the all around music virtuoso. |
