Looking for an integrated amp around 4000 to 5000.


I am currently looking to upgrade from a Rogue Pharaoh integrated. I have Ascendo C8 Rennasance speakers 88  DB. 6 ohm. PC to Wyred4sound DAC 2. Looking for some input on others experience. Considering Levinson 585 or Primaluna EVO 400. I need a line out for a sub. Prefer a balanced in but that is not a deal breaker. I welcome all recommendations.
Ag insider logo xs@2xpal
Very Happy with Krell Vanguard Digital. You can pick it up at a good price
The New Krell K-300i sounds great it comes in between $7000 $ 8000.
Little over budget. I have several sets of speakers ELAC Uni-fi Ubi .
Dynaudio Contour 20, B&W 805 Nautilus. Focal 100BE, And Audio Engine  HDP-6. Wilson Watt Puppy series 7. One Balance in on the Krell. So I use a XLR switch box. The DAC is OK however I like using my Ps audio Direct stream JR.
Good luck                
If there is anyway you can hear a Lyngdorf TDIA 2170 or 3400 you might like those. Love mine. Their room correction is the real deal. 
Thanks again for all the great suggestions. It gives me a lot to research. I am looking for a greater sense of presence in the music. More body in the vocals and space between instruments. I loved my system when I had an audio research ref3 pre and pass 250.5 but personal circumstances forced the sale of them. I am now in my sixties and want to keep it simple with an integrated. I do like the rogue for the price but want to move up a bit.
After years of wondering I finally satisfied my curiosity and picked up a preowned Devialet. Strictly digital playback for me utilizing the ethernet connection on my home LAN. Source is a remote located headless Mac Mini running Audivana playback software - remote control from laptop via screen sharing. Only external connections are ethernet, power and speaker cables. Verdict... ? Awesome - I’m selling my other stuff - Pass, Vinnie Rossi, etc.

This was with entry level Devialet D120 - quickly upgraded to Expert 220 Pro (also purchased preowned). Love the minimalist setup and form factor (who doesn’t have room for a chrome-plated pizza box that can be mounted vertically on the wall). Terrific phono (if analogue is your bag), 220 has configurable pre outs for subwoofer connections. If you speakers have a SAM profile listed on the Devialet site you can take advantage for even better electro-mechanical interface.

If you want to forego all of the peripheral madness (ended years of expensive, needless and endless quest for the "latest and greatest" for me) check out Devialet as an all-in-one. Won’t appeal to the "more boxes the better" crowd and those that enjoy obsessive tweeking (not that there’s anything wrong with that). Also, not everyone will submit to the Devialet ecosystem. For those that do, prices on the preowned market offer ridiculous value at a fraction of the original MSRP.

Disclaimer: This suggestion comes from an individual in the twilight (heh - 64 years of age is not old) of his audiophile journey looking for simplicity and ease of use without sacrificing performance.

Best of luck on your search.




Post removed 
If you liked the ARC sound, I think you'd be happy with their Vsi75. I've seen them used in the $6500 range.
Like someone earlier stated. The Manley Laboratories, "Stingray Integrated", sounds comparable to many Hi-End, "separates". 
It is basically their "Mahi", mono-block design. Just two of them built on the same chassis with a preamp section as well. .It also comes with a nice remote. Also a In/Out loop which I used for pre-out to my subs and crossovers. So you can have subwoofers in stereo also.. But you could "Sum" for just one if needed.
I just happen to have one too.. In case you would like to try it. "I now have several sets of the, "Snapper" and also, "Mahi", mono-block amps for use with my mains". The tubes have low hours also. That, since it wasn't long, "About a week" after purchasing it that I went for all the mono-blocks!~
and the Neo Classic 300B preamp.....
While Parasound does have a warm cuddly sound, they are class A/B, and do run warm. W4S is class D , has a cooler sound but very efficient. So if, electricity is a concern...
Underwood had a couple W4S integrated on sale at a deep discount. You would need to check with them
I recently purchased a new Hegel H390 for $4800.00. It is a very good product. Compares very well to the $11k H590, in fact, a lot of the electronics are shared.
Audio Research made some--50 and 75, I believe.  You might want to check them out while seeking one for your system.

Cheers!
@pal   

I am looking for a greater sense of presence in the music. More body in the vocals and space between instruments.

This part is very helpful - now we understand what you're looking for.  I actually think your speakers are holding you back from achieving this much more than your amp.  Those Ascendo C8's are not necessarily the fastest nor the most dynamic (particularly at lower volumes).  I would opt for a speaker change before considering an amp switch.
Hello - wow you got some kind and sincere responses and some odd recommendations but that’s to be expected. Folks on this site for the most part are kind and want to help you. 
Ok let me try to help. 
First things first. Over the years I’ve owned many different speakers and many different kinds. Bookshelf’s, panels. Single driver, Electrostatics, full size the works. I owned these Ascendo C8’s for years and loved them. I bought them right after owning a pair of Wilson Sofia 2 and they are much better IMO. That rear firing ribbon tweeter is odd and I never used it but some people like it I guess. 

So the challenge with these is similar to the pair of Martin Logan Summits I owned. To get the bass driver to match the panels speed and blend properly. 
Your speakers have an internal base driver that honestly I worked hard to find a good match. I first tried tubes CJ, ARC, PL, etc.

Then SS. Pass, Krell, Mac, Ayre. 
Here is the thing. They need / demand driver control / high damping factor. Give them the best driver control and juice you can afford. 
I now use Magico S5 MKII and these respond best with Soulution and Vitus IMO. Both grab and hold the drivers so we’ll. Of course there are other great matches. 
Your speakers have some warmth to them so I recommend SS for sure. 

The 88db / 6ohm is not what to look at really. The better driver grip the more your internal driver will march that nice mid and tweeter set up. Focus on the amps grip. Trust me. Get the highest damping factor you can afford. Watts help but damping factor will lead you to the promise land. 

Forget about brands or recommendations. Get a high quality SS amp with the best driver control / damping factor and you will thank me. I tried a dozen amps to get these right and difference was night and day. 
What is your budget. 
For example for my Magico S5 MKII I was using Pass Labs XA160.8 with damping factor of 200. Pure class a, warm great amps and I was happy. My Magico’s are no where close to relying on damping factor specs compared to the C8 but as a rule Magico’s really want their drivers held petty tight. My Soulution 530 has a damping factor of 10,000 vs the Pass Labs 200. Nelson keeps them sort of loose and that helps give them that warm, round and inviting sound.

With my Soulution I unplugged my pass amps and plugged in my 530 and let it warm up for a couple hours playing Roon radio and did some yard work and came Back in and had a listen and was blown away. The Pass Labs class a monobocks were gone in less then a week. 
The 530 is a very expansive amp but still for Ascendo C8 you need to get the highest damping factor you can afford. 
Now I’m not saying this is the only spec that matters. Get the best quality SS amp with the highest damping factor you can afford. Watts mean nothing really but can help. My Soulution is 130 watts and blew away a 450 watt amp so please do your home work. 
Maybe some folks on here know of a good high damping factor amp that sounds great in your price range. 
What is your budget? 
Will you consider a used amp? 
Entertaining how everyone has zeal for particular recommendations,  given the fact that they have zero knowledge of how it would integrate.  Like betting on horse races.
I didn't read the entire thread, perhaps someone else has suggested this.  Consider replacing your source instead of the Rogue.  I have owned a number of DACs and the W4S DAC 2 ranks last out of them all.
What about a Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista 600?  I can get a refurbished unit for you in Black for $5k.  200 watts and it is a pretty amazing amp that will work well with your existing equipment.  Normally this unit is $8K new.  

PM Me if you are interested.  
I personally owned these speakers. I tried close to a dozen amps on them. Damping factor on these specific speakers matter. The inside bass driver is slower then the mid and you can hear it with a first rate source unless you get them dialed in just right. That is my experience. Other may differ or not agree. I’m just trying to help the guy. 
Yes damping factor for the most part is not super important but it certainly is when you have a speaker that needs it and badly. 
I wasn’t using cheap amps either.

The best I settled before Soulution was ARC 250 SE which I thought was great until I heard the Soulution.

I am not recommending a Soulution amp. I use a Stage III Kraken power cable on it that cost much more then the Ascendo’s do but trust me get a good amp that has a high damping factor. 
Now if someone else chimes in that owned these speakers and they worked hard like me trying all kinds of different amps to get most out of them then great listen to them but people that have not owned them and don’t know these unique German speakers just ignore them. 
djones51 
I didn’t even read your link. I owned them and worked hard to mate them. Some article / white paper will never compare to actually owning and then spending tens of thousands to properly drive them. 
I actually am trying to help the guy rather be a contrarian. I have not posted on here in a long time but thought the op could benefit from my personal experience. If not no problem but people should actually try help when they can. 


 Well if damping factor is what you're worried about get a used a Crown Studio Reference it has a damping factor > 40,000. There have been a lot of good suggestions within the OP price range.
Hello,

I’m curious as to what it is about your current Integrated that you don’t like or why you feel you need to change?

We have a solid state unit that can give you more flexibility than most Integrated Amps at any price range.

It has a ton of performance and loaded with delightful features.

Connect it to your router and download our Control App to use from any mobile device.

It also has:
  • High-resolution preamplifier section
  • High current, high output amplifier section
  • Amplifier uses 8 bipolar output devices per channel, a toroidal transformer power supply, and Advanced Load Monitoring for 200W at 8 ohms, 400W at 4 ohms, 550W at 2 ohms, all continuous
  • Anthem Room Correction (ARC®) optimizes in-room response for perfect sound (Is fully customizable to sound the way you want or let it do its thing and simply correct for room anomalies).
  • Bass management for two subwoofers, in mono or stereo
  • Up-sampling of lower-resolution sources to 32-bit/192kHz
  • S/PDIF coaxial and optical, and balanced AES/EBU inputs
  • Asynchronous USB Audio Input supports 32-bit/384kHz PCM, and DSD 2.8 / 5.6 MHz sources
  • MM and MC phono with fully customizable RIAA Curves and with Presets along with adjustable Rumble Filter, balanced XLR, and single-ended analog inputs
  • Analog Direct mode
  • Graphic Front Panel Display for easy setup and navigation
  • Controllable via Ethernet, RS-232, or supplied IR remote
  • Available in Silver and Black Finishes
  • Crafted in Canada (Made in our Factory in Mississauga)

If you have questions, please don’t hesitate to reach out to me directly and you can use our Dealer Locator to find your closest Anthem Dealer. Always a good idea to call ahead and see who has one on display if you’re able to go for an audition. If you decide to purchase one without seeing or hearing it first, I will mention, it has approximately a 300 hour break-in period.

Retail is $4499.00 and is on sale now for 20% off of that through the end of May 2020. Thank you for your time and any consideration!
Respectfully,
Chris

Here are some direct links to it:

https://www.anthemav.com/products-current/model=str-integrated-amplifier/page=overview

https://www.anthemav.com/downloads/str_integrated_amplifier_datasheet.pdf
+1 for the Mcintosh MA252 integrated. Since it is hybrid design you have the best of both worlds. Tubes for preamp and SS for power amp. Is sounds nothing close to anything from Mcintosh I’ve tried before. More smooth, natural sounding and pleasing to ears.
I had one paired with my Spendor D7 and it was pure bliss. 3.500 Usd MSRP.
Due to the nature of your speakers (88db impedance at 6ohms) you can even think in his big brother the MA352 that doubles the power.
A second hand Pass Labs INT 60 or 250.  Altho, I very much doubt you will get an INT250 even 4th hand at the price point you are looking for.  But miracles do happen :-)
Post removed 
Hegel H390.  I have a Hegel H360 and it is outstanding.  I hear that the H390 is even better (have not demoed).  Retails for $6000 but you can get it brand new for under $5000.  I have not heard a better amp under $10K.  Musical, and grips the music, particularly the bass.  Plus all kinds of connectivity, including a top-flight DAC.  Not sure if it is Roon-ready, but it's supposed to be by now.  250W X 2 @8ohms with a damping factor of more than 4000.
Second or third what Chorus recommended.

The Hegel H360 or H390 is superb - excellent dynamics, prat, resolution and clarity, as well as bass control.

You might also consider the McIntosh MA252 / MA352 (tube hybrid).
The newly introduced NAD M-33 is worth a long look. It checks all your requirements and adds a few. MSRP is exactly $5000. Check it out. It looks to me at age 73 like a geezer's dream come true.
I'm currently using the M-10, which is a great unit in its own right. M-33 is more and better all the way around. Bluesound is very good and very convenient. 
PrimaLuna HP (14 tubes!) with my Vienna Acoustics produce excellent, tight bass. Luxman solid state was unexciting in comparison. Rotel and Parasound were okay, but did not equal PL.
if you can pick up a used ML 585 within your budget you’ll never look back. It’s a 12k list price unit that checks all the boxes. it also has a very good hi rez built in dac. It makes some of these recommendations look like toys. 

Hmmmm.......FACTORY or entity authorized by the factory blowing out inventory at 80% discount ?

Really makes you question the inherent value of buying new equipment at anything close to MSRP.
Post removed 
Just a little squeak from the peanut gallery: I have a line-level Jeff Rowland Consonance remote-controlled preamp (single-ended inputs only, sorry) sitting atop a gorgeous Jeff Rowland Model 2 amplifier, connected by a balanced pair of Kimber Hero interconnects. They're relatively compact as such, and the sound is truly glorious. I love them but don't really need them. I'd sell them as a set for $3k plus the actual cost of FedEx Ground shipping to the lower 48, which would probably be in the $150 to $200 range, as the amp comes in its own bullet-proof flight case. I'll eventually list them on Audiogon, but thought I'd risk being flamed for a bit of self-promotion in case you might consider a pair of older high-end separates as an alternative to a modern integrated.
+1 for Anthem STR. It has line out for 2 subs if desired. Also ARC (Anthem Room Correction) to optimize sound for Your listening room. Great customer service! Love mine!
I would check out the Ayon Spirit III. Read the review...site given below. Very stout tube amp. My experience with Primaluna 400 gear, even their separates, mirrors what many have said here; quality gear but underwhelming. 

The BAT gear I've listened to sounds like solid state. Seemingly well made. However, and this is a big however, they're no longer associated with the designer and original owner, Victor Khomenko. NOT tube sounding. I'm referring to the expansive tube soundstage and warm mid-range.
If you're interested in the Ayon, please let me know. I may have a line on a used one (<$3000).
Goodluck
https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/review/analog-reviews/amplifier-reviews/ayon-spirit-iii/


i double dog dare you to try a RISK FREE IN-HOME TRIAL to the PS Audio Stellar Strata. analog pre-amp, 200 watt/channel class A biased mosfet amp, delicious DAC, high-def streamer. designed & assembled in Boulder CO.
https://www.psaudio.com/products/stellar-strata/

Hey GREYHOUND!!

Thanks for the link to the Raven Audio Reflection MK2 on Audio Mart. Snapped it right up for more than 50% off MSRP. I know there is nobody else you would rather see have it in their collection than yours truly!!

RIAA - I owned the Raven Reflection MK2.  You should love it.  I ended up putting in KT 150's as my power source and kicked up my wpc to around 63.  I also did a lot of tube swapping which was fun.  If you got 50% off what a deal.  Congrats on your purchase.  It truly is a show piece.  
Post removed 
I had the Cary SLI-100 pushing the Avalon IDEAs but felt it lacked details and power. Just changed to a Densen B150+, wow is all I feel right now. For some reason, it just sounds very analogue. Loving it. May be that's their signature sound, although I am not sure. Enjoy.
Wow a lot of great suggestions. I think I am going to go with a SS integrated. I am considering the levinson 585, Hegel H390 and the Ayre ax5. Thanks for all of the input everyone.
the latest Krell integrated amp has received raves. i’d put it in the mix w the ML 585.