@ice812- Everyone is going to want to know what sort of sound signature you want. Are you looking for hyper clarity? Or something possibly less detailed but some would say more musical in its warmth and flow?
in my own journey, I’ve found I begin with one idea of what I thought I wanted and ended up craving the opposite on occasion…
I can speak to the Gold Note DS-10 which I have in my office system. It’s not the most detailed Dac, but it’s very enjoyable and musical at its price point. It feels like music just flows and sounds very natural.
I’ve heard the Weiss 204 is far more detailed but some might find it bright.
Another Dac you might consider is the Merason family of dacs. Another Dac that is known for its relaxed and refined delivery. I own the Merason Dac1 mkii and really enjoy it.
@bluethinker Sound signature is something I'm still trying to understand what I want. Perhaps if I share my audio journey it will help you understand what I like.
My old system was as follows....
Schiit Saga plus preamp
Schiit Modus dac which I'm still using
Emotiva PA-1 stealth monoblock amps
Magnepan .7 speakers
Some cheap cd player can't remember the name.
I remember when I upgraded the the cd player to the Rotel RCD-1572, I could hear a massive improvement in sound instantly. If was like more of the layers of the onion were peeled back exposing sounds in the recording I had never heard before.
Then I added the Modwright and Maggies and I think I'm in a better position to actually hear differences dacs, cables, etc can make in the sound.
I like hearing details in a recording that you can't hear on cheaper gear. I like a wide, deep soundstage where I can close my eyes and pinpoint each instrument and it be true to if you were watching it live.
I can answer or explain more if you have other questions that would help you recommend a dac.
Not sure how much "coaching" I can give re the specific DAC's you mention or sound signature. However I am responding as I have Modwright components - LS99 preamp and PH 9 phono stage. Like you my Modwright components are going to stay a part of my system for a long time! My amp is a First Watt F8 and an Aurender N200 plus a Schitt Yggy LIM. Speakers are Volti Razz. I like the sound my system produces and know its.a combination of may factors including the tubes in my Modwright preamp. I am enjoying the sound of my Schitt Yggy LIM but will likely be in your boat looking for a change in the next few years. I have decided that I want to try out whatever DAC/DAC's I narrow it down to in my system since the individual components add up to my "house sound" As a result I am going to look at vendors that have a trial policy - Mojo, Audio Mirror to name a few. I also believe there are trusted dealers that may provide a trial DAC in the right situation. My point being based on what I have read of your thinking above, if that your next step is to research a handful of DAC vendors that provide a trial period and narrow it down to a few. This will enable you to further clarify your "house sound" and its specific to your overall system. I have trouble expressing exactly what my system sounds like. I can read reviews and listen to other systems but in 99% of the cases the overall system is different from mine. Good luck on your journey!
If you’re looking for a neutral and clear white wine type of sound the LAiV DAC may fit the bill, but if it’s me I’d get it with their new DDC that reportedly makes a significant improvement for not all that much more $$$. That you can do an in-home trial is a nice bonus. If you’re looking for something still fairly neutral but with a little more warmth and meat on the bones I’d look at the Denafrips Terminator 15th, but again I’d budget for their Hermes or Gaia DDC for the same reasons as with the Laiv. Two others would be Lampizator and Mojo who I think has a new Y DAC coming out soon that they seem to be pretty high on. All of these offer very good 3D soundstage capabilities, which seems to be important to you. Weiss and T+A may also be good but haven’t read enough about them to know how they do specifically for what you’re looking for. I’d be careful with the Gold Note as it does seem to skew more to the warmer side of things that may or may not appeal to you. As for a streamer I’d put the Innuos Pulsar on your list not only for sound quality but also for their outstanding Sense app that many feel is the best available to the point where some have even dropped Roon, which says a lot. Just some thoughts FWIW, and best of luck.
I love the Modwright. When it comes time to upgrade my turntable, I will be getting the Modwright PH9 phono stage. Dan is a great guy and they have fantastic products and customer service.
I have a recommendation worth considering on the streamer component, which is Magna Hi Fi's Mano Ultra MK3.5. It's a two box system consisting of a Farad 3 linear power supply and matching box with the streamer component. You have options for the build including an upgraded connection cable (mine is highly optioned and I recommend their level 2 silver cable if your system is sufficiently warm). It's ben a very significant upgrade in sound quality from my old Bluesound Node and I give it high marks. Hans Beekhuyzen has a Youtube review on it and uses it as his current reference streamer if you want to learn more. I love mine and it's worth considering. I'd also note the Weiss 204 is a dac that I really want ro hear. Have fun with your search for new gear.
I would also consider a Lampizator DAC. I just got a Lampizator Atlantic TRP (tube rollers paradise). I previously had a Denafrips Pontus II with an Iris DDC. While that was a very good combo, the Lampi is more detailed, better bass and a vastly larger soundstage. Highly recommended. Having said all that, I would also like to hear a Holo May KTE.
Those Magneplanar 3.7i are superior spkrs (if they are 3 or more feet from front wall). They should be your standard to which you raise the level of the other component's. I have 2.7i. To complement them my source is PS Audio StellarGold DAC fed by a Jay's Audio CD2 Mk2Transport. If you live in a high-rise consider a power conditioner or regenerator. Good Luck with all the opinions. -JAS
I'll be upgrading my DAC this year too, and I would suggest adding the Denafrips Terminator 15th to your list. Initial reviews have been really strong for all of the new 15th Denafrips DACs
I'm so far hearing the Terminator 15th is fine without a DDC, as it already comes with extremely capable Dual OCXO (oven controlled crystal oscillators). Denafrips DACs lower down the line that have lesser clocks (Ares, Pontus, and Venus) do benefit from a good DDC, and part of that is adding I2S input too
I will never purchase another piece of Denafrips gear. In December I purchased a Hermes 12th DDC. It will not play 24/192 files. I have gone round and round trying to get them to send me an RMA to a service center for repair, and they absolutely refuse. They keep telling me that I have to upgrade the firmware, but the process for doing so is complicated (their software to accomplish it is an "unsigned driver", so Windows does not want to run it) and if done incorrectly the unit will be "bricked". The seller has been unhelpful (although supposedly an authorized dealer, according to Denafrips website), and the support from the factory ridiculously unhelpful. So I have a $1200 piece of gear sitting on a shelf doing nothing. So my advice is to stay as far as possible from purchasing any Denafrips product!!!
Also have the innuos Halo May Kte combo. It's amazing. I had it narrowed down between Denafrips and Halo May Kte. It's not a matter of which is better but personal preference. However between these two who h have been compared extensively by every youterber overall they are very similar. If you end up considering one of these should check out anadialog yt comparison he has a gift in describing sounds signatures and does excellent in depth reviews. Best of luck
Schiit Gungnir 2 could add some meat to the Magnepan. It’s a nice dac.
The Aurender is not a upgrade to the Wiim Ultra if you are using the latter correctly, i.e. using its USB output (async) for transport. The Wiim also has all kinds of useful features that should make Aurender’s daddy feel guilty about his prices.
or,,,,,you could go all in..since your magnepan can be a end game kind of speaker for the magnepan connoisseur.
In the latter case, the Michi P5 + S5 from Rotel would be a good match. Michi stuff is the late Ken Ishiwata’s work and can be end game, ultra high-end type of sound for a bargain price (’bargain price’ --> relatively speaking).
WiiM Ultra streamer (considering the Aurender N200)
Looking for a dac that will complement the Modwright and Magnepans.
I remember when I upgraded the the cd player to the Rotel RCD-1572, I could hear a massive improvement in sound instantly. If was like more of the layers of the onion were peeled back exposing sounds in the recording I had never heard before.
I have their CD player (MCD85) but since you already upgraded that then just stick with the pure streamer. They all seem to have the 8-channel 32-bit quad balanced DAC.
But then again I don't know anything about the other suggested options related to either budget or quality.
If you have an audio dealer near you, go down there and see if you can figure out your sound profile a little better.
Take your time and do your research on dacs check out the forums with people with similar setups and what they say.
You got to add budget in here because you can spend anywhere from 2K to 40K.
You're going to get some great advice here and a few good recommendations already. I'd also like to add the Mola Mola to the list, as I think it's a really good sounding deck, that has a great sound stage and profile that meets many listeners and has a warm lush sound that works for many of its owners.
I also like the Holo Audio May KTE and Chord Dave.
If you plan on spending more than 15K then that opens up the door to a whole bunch of other options.
Have listened to so many... a lot of them just sound the same so I went to a tube DAC. 1st a Line Magnetic 502ca (which I still have) and a better Canor DAC 2.10. Both are excellent and once you swap out for better vintage 12au7 & 6922, they are each excellent and right in my lane. The LM can be used in SS or tube output although I completely prefer its tube option. The Canor just plays breathtakingly clean and natural. It's holographic presentation is amazing and soundstage is wide and accurate; a great machine for sure. Instruments seem to float each isolated in their own soundscape, if that registers. Unpacks everything and scrubs any and all digital residu out of the music.
Can't beat up any of the others mentioned cause this is all so subjective but reviews can only take you so far. You have to go out and listen. If that's not possible, my recommendation would be either if these two manufacturers. The Line Magnetic has no doubt been replaced by a new model but the Canor is current as I just purchased mine last year.
Bricasti equipment is top notch & they sound great at all their price points. They’re all tight, clean & highly detailed w/ enormous sound stage without being harsh or bright. These qualities just become more so as you move up the line. They started out making pro studio equipment & still do so as well.
Their equipment is all designed & built in MA & they manufacture and on site much of hardware they use including cabinets, feet, knobs etc & wind their own transformers. The circuit boards are built to their specs w/ top quality parts they provide in a specialty company next door & thus the quality control is outstanding. You can call them anytime & talk w/ the folks that run the whole thing anytime.
It is a fantastic DAC. Upgrading from it will be a pretty expensive proposition.
A big word of caution about the May and many other modern DACs: The May has a 5v output, much higher than the input range of many preamps. It will probably not be a problem with any solid state amp or preamp, but it has caused me issues finding any thing Class A, let alone anything tube based.
Before you make your choice, pay attention to the output voltage of the DAC, and the rated input of any future gear you might want.
Much as I love the May, I have had regrets because of this. Finding a preamp of matching quality that worked well with my Manley Snappers took me several years. I ended up with a used Levinson 503, that is an $18K pre new...
So on your Modwright, what you have to pay attention to is this section
The amp will be driven to max volume at 2v RMS, but it can handle up to 6V RMS before you start either over driving parts, or run into cross talk. Since this voltage is close to the May's output, you might hear some cross talk with sensitive speakers - not an issue with Maggies.
All the DAC's you listed in your OP should play well with your amp.
I did not see a budget, but another plug for Merason. They offer a very balanced, musical sound. I have their mid-tier model, the Reuss, which replaced a Gungnir MB. Other DAC’s I have had in my system include the Yggy MIB and Rockna Wavedream, I still like the Merason.
Since you mentioned that you may upgrade your streamer I should share this. I was auditioning streamers to put upstream of my Holo May DAC. I narrowed the search to Aurender and Innuos. They were both excellent in their own ways but what came out of the May DAC was a VERY different sound signature between the two streamers. My experience was that the streamer will affect the sound signature of the DAC much more than one might think! Good luck and cheers.
You might consider the Bryston BDA 31.4 DAC. That also has a built in streamer based on the MPD technology. Roon ready I believe and should work with Ardivarna server as well.
I'm so far hearing the Terminator 15th is fine without a DDC, as it already comes with extremely capable Dual OCXO (oven controlled crystal oscillators).
@vthokie83 Good point. I just read someone here got the new Laiv DDC and found it to make a significant improvement with his T2 that I believe also uses an OCXO clock although not sure it’s as good as those used in the 15th so something to explore. I also saw someone recently replaced their Harmony DAC with the LTA Aero DAC that he much preferred, and since I forgot to mention the LTA earlier I just wanted to circle back with that as another potential option. FWIW.
Bottom line, if you don’t know what you’re aiming for, being presented with many options that sound good to others, in other systems, is not likely to move the ball downfield. You need to listen to various DACs (preferably in your room) to get a better sense of what’s available within your budgetary limits and of those, which you naturally gravitate towards. There is no substitute for this step and none of us can do it for you. This is the simple truth.
I’m happy to provide you with a list of dealers that offer trial periods/return policies. PM me if interested.
+1 on the Schiit Gungnir 2; I replaced my Bifrost 2/64, and the improvement in sound quality was instantly noticeable. Excellent imaging/localization of instruments and voices and superb tonal qualities. Add to that: Reasonably priced, made here in the USA, responsive customer support—one another Schiit product I had an into remote, so they sent a replacement promptly. Given what I want to spend, this is likely my “end-state” DAC … at least for a few years until something dramatically better comes along at a decent price.
Agreed. In fact I suspect that a great number of DACs from many manufacturers could benefit by adding a DDC, especially those with I2S. Certainly the improved clock (in those cases where that is the case), and if the adding the DDC allows I2S connections. I do know the ASR folks would vehemently disagree, but my opinion only comes from my listening experiences.
The clock upgrade is what comes to mind first when discussing a DDC, and there is a whole load of information there that I'll not go into here.....as I've posted it a half a dozen other times in previous threads. It is important to note which clock is being used in which connection; some use the sending streamer or DDC's clock, and some use the receiving DAC's clock, and some allow you to override those basic ideas.....that's a pretty critical piece of information.
The obvious suspects for DDC use include Denafrips, Musician, Holo Audio, Gustard, Laiv, SMSL, Wiim, Pi come to mind first; but it depends on a bunch of factors.
The quality of the streamer in the first place, and which connections is it optimized for? In my experience value streamers are improved GREATLY with the use of a DDC, because at their affordable price point they just can't offer highly engineered connections. I'm still using a Bluesound Node 130 with a Denafrips Iris DDC to this day, even as the rest of my system has been greatly upgraded over the past 18 months.....and is certainly upper mid-fi at this point.
Something like an Aurender N20 (so too with many high end brands and models) which already has an OCXO and highly engineered connections AES/EBU and USB being two, may not benefit from a DDC at all. My friend prefers his N20 to his Denafrips Terminator Plus (last revision) via AES/EBU, even though he has a Denafrips Gaia in his arsenal....which is relegated to his second system, which is even nicer than my primary system!
Also a DDC can add a host of other connections, that may not be natively present in the streamer. An example of that is would be Bluesound Node which only has a USB output. Add in a DDC like the Denafrips Iris, and you can now connect to your DAC via I2S/AES-EBU/Coax/optical. This too can be important depending on what you are looking for in your DAC. For example the Denafrips Terminator 15th's I2S and USB connections support up to DSD 1024 and 44.1khz to 768khz (1536khz USB), while the AES-EBU/Optical/coax only support DSD64-DoP and 44.1khz to 192khz. Is that important? I don't know, but it should be taken into consideration.
I'm going to be going through this extensively at Axpona this year, as I want an even clearer picture from the manufacturers themselves. If I were going to upgrade today with my current level of understanding, it would be to an Aurender N20 and a Denafrips Terminator 15th.....but that may very well change over the next few months as I dig even deeper into this. Damn I do like the idea of a Lampizator though
Agreed on what your ears tell you. My only issue (pro and con) is just making a blanket statement without having tried it oneself......with streamers, DACs, DDCs, clocks, connections, etc; the true answer in most instances is "it depends".
DAC and streamer experts disagree as well, and usually those are the ones that have spent the time and money to properly design and implement a a proper solution......or didin't, and want you to believe them.
You want a highly resolving, linear measuring DAC with Magnepans because Maggies roll off the top octave considerably. You don’t want anything that truncates those fine details further.
IME, for such a DAC, there is no need to get anything more expensive than the Topping E70 Velvet. If you’re inclined to spend more, try a Mytek or used DCS.
I can attest to the benefit of adding the DDC to the LAIV Harmony DAC. I found the LAIV DAC on its own to be decent with neutral warm but fairly detailed sound but lacking something. A little too vanilla with just average sound stage width, height and depth. There was also a kind of lack of focus. The DDC cleared that all up. It became very focused, tightened up but not restricted in any way. Actually the opposite. It opened up in all 3 directions, became richer, more lively. I am going to see if an iFi iPower2 power supply on the DDC will help even further but I’m a bit skeptical. I’m quite happy with the sound or of this setup. Using Anthem AVM60 as preamp, Moon 760A power, Wilson Sabrina X speaker, dual REL S/812 subs, Denon DCD-S1 CD player, Magnetar UDP800 for SACDs through cheap HDMI to I2S converter.
With the myriad of responses you've already received, mine may not provide a whole lot of value.
My prior system consisted of Magnepan 1.7s, a Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III stereo tube amp, the BlueSound node (2, then 2i, then n130) and outboard Schiit Audio Bifrost 2/64. Once I left the Rogue Audio integrated amp, there were some gaps I needed to address in warmth and preamp signal matching.
I first upgraded to the Magnepan 3.7i set and the sound stage opened up, but again the upgrade from a Rogue CM III to an Audio Research VT220 and Schiit Freya + left me wanting. The sound was amazingly warm, but lacked power in the mid bass and most anything resembling rock music, which I like a lot when not listening to jazz or blues.
So, I installed the Schiit Tyrs and that addressed a huge gap when driving the 3.7is. After an upgrade of the caps on the Freya + and a bunch of preamp tube swaps, I began realizing the next iteration of improvement would be improved clarity and it wasn't coming from the preamp or amp. The Node and Bifrost were okay, but my feeling was they presented as muddy. So, I upgraded the DAC to a Bricasti M1 and while it helped (especially as I compared it to other DACs), I felt like it wasn't worth the upgrade cost (even used) and that's when a local audiophile and reseller said "Hey, your streamer isn't in the same class or architecture capabilities as your other gear. It's likely holding the DAC back, by a lot." After pushing back a few times on what appeared to be a selling bias, I asked if I could return the U2 if it wasn't improved. He said yes, so I bit.
Well, that was an unexpected and huge upgrade. The clarity is there, resolution has improved, sound stage has widened, and now I'm looking for the M1 upgrade, so I can upsample up to and more than DSD128.
Good luck on your project and I hope it never ends :)
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