I want more bass…

The only other power amp I have on hand at the moment is a Marantz 8077 HT amp. Plus I have a corresponding AV pre the 8805 that I could swap out for the 1509 packing as a pre. 
Alternatively, I’ll need to switch these to the LS10SE preamp or try my heavy duty PMC MB2SE speakers, may give a better result too.

Still think need more powerful amp. However, 98 dB speakers are easy to drive. My speakers are like upper 80's or low 90's. Can understand why you have 120W/ch amp. So maybe 200W/ch amp max would do it. Sure, subs will solve the problem; no question about that. Just that these are full range speakers and should not really need the subs. Unless people are correct here and this unusual 3 sided room is causing issues.

Yesterday I did a few things

1. Got my subwoofer working again I’m not sure why there was no sound out before. Something to do with the AVR settings. 

2. Ran Audessy again across the whole system setting front horn speakers to large

3. Ran bass heavy music from Tidal and SACD

4. Made sure the ARC D240 MK II was connected to play the front horn speakers. It rated at Power output. 120 watts per channel into 8 ohms, 240 watts per channel into 4 ohms ; Power bandwidth. (-3dB points) 8Hz to 60kH. The speakers are rated at 98dB.

This has raised the level of bass in the system and room. It’s a three sided room. It’s enough for me as it reaches deep and has some good thump. I think it could do more. 

These speakers are not biwirable. Eventually I’ll get to swap out a better preamp. I do have an LS10SE that’s allocated in another system. This is a problem of two systems in one. A stereo music system and a movie system. Previously I ran these separately. Now in my living room where the horn speakers are located, I need a movie system. And same in my HT too. The issue is the same speakers are used for both systems. 

Are you sure that the music you were listening to has adequate levels of bass that you can even hear? Lots of recordings have very little bass. I hooked up a spectrum analyzer to the secondary outputs on my preamp, and I was amazed at how many songs did not have bass in the original recording. Recordings after 2010 seem to sound much better than anything before that. I went onto TIDAL and download it a test down album. My speakers won’t go plenty long enough. It’s just that it doesn’t exist on the recording. It has nothing to do with where my speakers are placed , or watt amp or what set of cables or what kind of power it just doesn’t exist in the recording. If it exist in the recording, you’ll hear it. The test tone CD then I played I found it I could get my speakers to go down to 30 Hz sounded great once I got below 25 Hz , it almost couldn’t be heard. I did the same thing going in the opposite direction and found that I couldn’t hear anything above 13,000 Hz. There’s no reason for me to worry about what’s happening at 18,000 Hz because I can hear it anyways. You can download a Spectrum analyzer for your iPhone and it will tell you a lot about what’s going on. Try it. Sing a visual alongside what you’re hearing. It’s amazing how much you’ll learn about recordings.

A Class A 70/80 watt EAR 890 with a touch of bass heft will drive horn speakers incredibly well, especially in the bass.  Substitute better footers (SR MigSx or Townshend Platform), excellent cabling and an SR purple fuse (not necessary as even a glass 4 amp fuse works great) and you will have SOTA amp for your speakers. 

Solid disagreement with most comments here. It's the amps. Did not read this closely at first. You have 2 12-inch woofers in each speaker. You need power and a lot. Pass amp seems well low. Better with the AudioResearch and the Luxman, but stilll clearly low. I have single 12-inch in each speaker and have over 500 W/ch available for peaks. Years ago I was at a live outdoor concert in Madison, WI and I asked about all the amps. He said usually not running that much power but need power for the peaks. Mine are not full range like yours so did add a sub which also eases the workload on the speakers. But yours are full range, subs are not needed. While could be the room, more likely you need power. Perhaps a Parasound or Bryston would work or if you could biamp, putting a sweet amp like Pass on top and a class AB or ClassD (ICE) on the bottom. Maybe buy where can get a trial period. But to me, this is clear, you need power, likely minimum 200W/ch, more likely 300W/ch. Again, this has to do with peak requirements, not likely hitting this most of the time. Highly likely these speakers can handle this much power but should always check the specs. Mine can handle like a 200W/ch continuous. Again, usually not doing this much power, though. If your speakers cannot handle this which is unlikely, then would have to get powered subs to get the bass you want. But again, yours are full range speakers, so I think you need lot of power to drive the 4 large woofers. 

One last note: amp not just reserves for peaks, but need high damping factor and slew rate, so amp can respond fast. Mine speakers are acoustic suspension; ported is easier to drive.

Just walking around the room will tell you if you have nulls. You can use single frequencies.  If they truly go that low holding your hand in front of the bass port you should feel plenty of air movement.  Then bass traps and first reflection traps.  I am not sure how those speakers are to be placed.  I pointed my horns at my shoulders.  There are lots of other things that improve bass, but this is room acoustics. 

@pokey77 indeed, its a crazy hybrid mess! Marantz AVR1509 used as a pre/digital source... sometimes fed by a Pioneer LX800SE for SACD CD Bluray.

I have full range tower speakers with built in powered woofers And also have two subs and won't do any critical listening without my subs in the mix

Nobody has asked what the rest of your system looks like. Are you using vinyl as a source? Or are you doing digital?

If digital, make sure your Network is all dialed in, if not, you won't be getting the bass you want. Just a thought. And if you are doing vinyl, and your phono preamp and associated gear is not up to par, same deal.

Definitely a fan of powered separate subs.

just moving the subs around had a big impact.

Active crossover, then bi-amp, move sub freqs off of main speakers and amps don’t need to try to push those frequencies either.  For my old ears, I also limit the top end frequencies.  I can’t hear them anyway so why should I have my amps trying to push them? (Personally, I limit high end to 18khz, I can’t hear anything up there anyway.)

i know, I know.. but “I” cannot hear the difference, so I prefer to enhance what I can hear.  
I like it this way.  Seems my amps and speakers do also.

Experiment with speaker positioning.  If you you don't have much freedom to move them about relative to corners and walls (closer or farther) then you may be stuck with the bass you have.

A sound level phone app and a source for playing full bandwidth pink noise will validate the best spot for the speakers.  

Once you have the positioning optimized and are still not happy with the bass then it is time to consider other options but you aren't there yet.  

What kind of music are U listening to? does it have really deep bass? Most people think mid bass is deep bass. Woofer position, as mentioned , is critical for deep bass. Rooms actually have null spots where there is no bass if your woofers are there. That's the plus of subs. You can put them in the good spots for bass and the main speakers for best sound and it's usually not the same spots. Finally how loud do U listen. It's very hard to hear deep bass at lower levels. The ear frequency response varies with level and is only flat at around 100 dB, too loud for safe listening. At normal loud levels bass is down at the ears significantly. 

You might want to try and run a 50hz tone into the system. Lots of options on YouTube for frequency sources.

Then walk around the room a listen to what happens with bass nodes, peaks and cancellations.

Its surprising that you are lacking bass, so as has been stated above, could be the room and speaker placement.

Just a thought before you start shopping for stuff. I’m by no means arguing against implementing subs, this experiment should help provide some information about how the speakers are interacting with the room.

Bass Counts!! 

Are those speakers bi-ampable?

If so buy a Class D ganfet and power them.

Better strategy is to buy 4 good subs and power them with another amp.

I’ll connect a sub to this system and see what happens…

Thanks everyone for you comments ✅

I suspect it’s could be the room., usually too big for the speakers, I resist subwoofer to get good bass.Until I finally gave in. As long as the sub were dial correctly.Your system will be benefited from a good bass.

I found bass when I got rid of the cheap industrial  receptacle s I has put in and I swapped  them out for the tip of the line furutech  plugs. That was a huge difference.  The industrial  plugs really sucked. They are mid way between hospital  grade and basic. Go try a furutech  receptacle  and sit back and enjoy 

Wait!!  I had the XA25 and it produced a lot of bass. It was more resolving then the First Watt amp I had but the lack of bass is not the XA25 IMHO.

I hope to get one back again someday.  

JH

One problem with traditional speakers is that you place them for the best soundstage, invariably  this is not the best place for bass. In my small room I, despite having small Audio Physic floor standers, had too much bass, the answer was 2 subwoofers. It's not the amount of bass you produce it's where it is, it can be sucked out or over emphasised depending on placement. So the more bass outputs, rather than more bass output, could be the answer. Interestingly I have now replaced a 150 watt hybrid pre power setup with a 40 watt tube amplifier and the bass is wonderful, I even replaced KT 88 tubes with EL34's to lower bass production and its even better. Solutions can be very counter intuitive.

@baylinor I agree with your assessment of subs and thank you for your comments of my system. I swear there is a synergy between Plinius gear and Legacy speakers. But I don’t want to hijack this thread. We should focus on the OP’s issue.

@falconquest 

Just looked at your system. Very nice equipment! My speakers have double 10" woofers and go down to 25 hz, not as low as yours  at 18 hz. Regardless, having dual subs, mine go down to 14 hz, seems to allow the speakers to open up more in other frequencies. At least that's what I experience in my system. But we are talking minute difference so the cost of the subs can become prohibitive. I also like my subs to better minimize the low end rumble with proper placement. Speakers woofers are locked in to their stereo location which in my case is not optimum locations. 

FWIW...A set of Rogue M-180s with a Rogue RP-7 pre could drive my Focal Kanta No.2s to some amazing floor shaking base. No subs, no tone control or equalization. 

I didn’t think 300B’s were a great bass performer but I’m not a tube expert. I would try an amp that you could roll with KT120’s. You may give up a little midrange sweetness but they can drive your low end. Or, you could try a hybrid tube amp such as a VAC or Rogue Audio.

@baylinor I respectfully disagree. I'm sitting here right now listening to Afrocelt Sound System on my Legacy Focus SE's and the bass is shaking the room. They play down to 18hz, no sub required!

I know it's not a big audiophile thing to do, but every speaker will benefit from dual subs, regardless of how low the speakers go. 

Turn down the treble?? :D

The room may be too bright, and needs damping.  Speaker placement may be less than ideal.

The frequency balance is very important in an hi-end audio system. Even slightly more high freq, the sound becomes bright. The listener feels dark and gloomy if the low and mid freq are even slightly more. The best reference is to match freq balance with the original sound or music. Therefore, the audio sound is natural and balanced and one can listen to the audio system for the long time without the listener’s fatigue.

One of big reasons for craving more bass is the strong distortion in an audio system. The audio distortion is mostly felt in the higher freq and is playing like high freq which makes there is more high freq. Then the more bass and mid are needed to balance out. The audio distortion is major irritation to human ears and our ears will not tolerate even little distortion sound. Even the strongest bass is not enough to balance out to this harsh high freq like audio distortion.

One way to reducing the audio distortion easily is using good properly made audio power cords.

Alex/Wavetouch

I would call Viking Acoustics.

Mike

agree with powered subs, probably 2 with those speakers...most speakers bass rating is at inches from speaker at low volume, not full volume at listening position...

https://tektondesign.com/product/subwoofers/6-10-sub/#color

Quick math approximately 471ish sq inch vs a 21” 330ish sq inch? (Don’t take my word on the math, pretty rough approximation)

?

A powered sub would give you a lot more flexibility than an amp change.

With four 12" drivers and "not enough bass"....I'm very suspicious of the room. 

Even though you don't have a subwoofer....do the subwoofer crawl around the room, on your hands and knees, sometimes moving your head up and down and see if there is good bass ANYWHERE in the room.  If so, then speaker positioning vs listening position adjustment will be critical.  If not, then you just might have one of those room that has so many cancellation modes that these speakers just aren't going to work in your room.

A great tool to help you with results of positioning in your space is a Sound Pressure Level Meter. Amazon.

put on tripod, listening position, seated ear hight, see how balanced the range of tones are. move the speakers, listen, then run the test tones, see the results.

....................................................

combined with a test CD with test tones.

I have this one, got lucky, bought long time ago when affordable, very pricey now.

tracks 9-38 1/3 octave test tones.

you want specific individual tones, not sweeping tones.

....................................

OTHERS: what CDs are good for test tones????

As others have stated, it’s probably your room and/or speaker positioning and listening area. Some extensive measurements and rearranging will probably be in order. 

I vote for the room. Either you are sitting in an area with a suck out or your expectations are not realistic. I would start with taking some measurements to see exactly what you are getting.

The first place I would start is repositioning your speakers. Even before you do that you can try reversing the phase at the speakers by switching +/- cable connections. If the bass is "better" then it's not the speakers themselves but rather their location in your room relative to where you listen. It's an easy test.

I’d love to hear those speakers, where do you live, I’m in Plainfield, NJ.

this cd has ’my Funny Valentine’, just Mila and a bass player

. You will hear how well your system delivers not only bass, but quality, refined bass, not booming bass. If your friends want booming bass, let them listen to someone else’s crap quality bass.

perhaps you can stream a high rez version. If you like her voice and those songs, buy the CD, it is terrific.

.................................... search, here, for ’strong bass’. https://forum.audiogon.com/search/index?utf8=%E2%9C%93&query=strong+bass+recordings

Your pass is more than adequate.  Either:

1.  your problem isn't in your amp, perhaps power supply, perhaps in the signal path.

2.  You don't really have a problem.  your system is making a accurate reproduction of the recording.  You can still add more bass, but you will have to use an equalizer.

Jerry

Could be your room as much or more so than your amp.