I have NOVA V's and I am not happy

We see complaints like this all the time. Your speakers were not custom tuned to your ears. They will need to be retuned or you will need to buy another speaker but the result will be the luck of the draw. 

Your ML gear is not bright from my experience. The 585 and 436 were on the slightly warm side of things when I heard them with Magico A3 speakers. I also feel the B&W are brighter than my comfort level, and the Sonus is darker than my comfort level. So given that and also your observations I would think it is your room acoustics that is making the sound bright.

Kenjit, I appreciate your reply and although I am sure you experience many unreasonable customers daily I am not blaming anyone nor am I asking a company to custom design a speaker to my ears. What I am asking is what combination of equipment create a sound closer to what I described than the equipment that I currently own. 

Thanks Lee 

Thanks yysantabarbara, I am praying that is the case :) 

BTW I am rewatching all 6 seasons of "Justified" what an awesome show :)

Earlier this year I overcame similar symptoms - obvious non optimal  acoustics, glare and a weak lower register.  Fatigue at anything above background music.  It wasn't a speaker thing (AZ CrescendoII) or an amp thing (Pass Labs), it was a synergy thing.  Then came a Luxman L-505uxii.  It rocks instinctively where and when it counts, on time, bold, propulsive, giving blues/rock and blues a meaningful life.  (I love blues, rock and blues, in that order. : )  Loudness button gives a kick in the bass.  So helpful with bad recordings and especially radio.  

I'll spring for a used 509X some lucky day.

I think most good systems get bright as you listen very loud since the higher frequencies hurt your ears.  Especially as your ears age.

Let me introduce you to rule #1 do not listen to kenjit, his agenda is not for the reasonable person. A quick AudiogoN forum search on him will remove his clothes. 

Have you tried different speaker cables to see if you get similar results? Also, check to see if you have observed polarity. I see the speakers have (2) positive & (2) negative binding posts. Are these meant to be bi-wired? Do they have bridging plates? What preamp are you using?

Maybe the ML 585 is not a synergistic match. I would try a McIntosh MA 12000 with Nordost or Siltech cables.

Exactly what is your desired volume level in dBs.  It makes a difference.

what is your source  

My first suspect for the listening fatigue at loud volumes would be the room acoustics. The issues with the lower end might be related, but I have a feeling they are not be based on my experience. If even after significant room treatments (hard to know what your situation is without more details about the room) you still aren't satisfied with the sound, then I would look at new speakers before anything else.

If possible, you should go audition some other speakers and maybe bring your Mark Levinson N°585 with you to minimize the variables. If you are asking for specific speaker brands to consider, then I'd personally recommend Acoustic Zen (which wlutke also mentioned), Magico, and Vivid Audio. Focal or Rockport could also be closer to what you're looking for.

Could also be the Sonus Fabers are reproducing the recording with all its warts. I have the same issue with my Thiel 3.6’s. On great recordings they are unbeatable; on poor recordings the performance better be great for me to tolerate.

If you’re on Qobuz, go to a recording of sopranos Francesca Aspromonte or Sabine Devielhe. May not be your cup o’ tea but just listen to their vocal range and see if there is the same harshness in the upper registers.

The best way to tell is to move your seating position next to the speakers.  Like put the speakers together and your seat 3' away.  The difference between that and what you hear when 8'-10' away is the room.

Another,, less easy way is to get some blankets.  This type of compression in the midrange often happens in the floor between/behind the speakers.  Do some cheap experimentation.

Sorry for splitting my post.  Compression-like artifacts are often cuased by excess bare wall reflections.  It's like the noise part of the signal-to-noise ratio finally rises to the point where your ears can't ignore it.

@rlross3 I agree with your assessment of B&W Nautilus and the latest Sonus Faber. The older series SF such as Cremona, etc. were dark/warm sounding. But the latest SF are transparent and don’t have the warmth the older SF speakers were known for. 

Also, Kimber cables I tried in my system in an attempt to get a bit more air and details resulted in similar experience. The KS interconnects made my system sound bright and fatiguing. Yes slightly more detailed but the cure was worse than the disease. 

So if you want to keep your SF speakers, fix your room acoustics and try warmer cables like Acoustic Zen or Cardas. Also give AQ power cables a try. 
 

Lastly, look into a warmer sounding amplifier such as Pass or Luxman. Someone mentioned hearing Levinson with Magico A3 and it wasn’t warm not an indication. The A3 sound like the older Cremona may be even darker. 
 

An opinion….you should not use wires as tone controls.
I agree with @yyzsantabarbara  , I would suggest changing speakers, once you determine working on the room or sitting/speaker positions don’t help enough.
@audphile1 suggestion on the Luxman/pass is very good, but an amp/equipment change may not make enough of a change for you. You might try KEF or Klipsch, mainly because they sound way different then SF, but speakers are so personal you really need to listen to as many as possible. 

An opinion….you should not use wires as tone controls.

@deadhead1000 I agree 100% but different cables sound different. That’s just a reality. And hence my suggestion to try Acoustic Zen and higher end Cardas as well as AQ power cords. To me the AZ interconnects and AQ power cables sound most natural and do less harm than something like Kimber within the context of a transparent system.

Looking at some in room and quasi anechoic FR measurements for the Nova it seems that the FR, dispersion characteristics and variation in output vs environment is highly variable.

There is no way that some effort in room placement would not duplicate exactly the differences in sound that others associate with amp/cable changes at no cost to you.

The Nova and B&Ws are both geared toward a non-neutral reproduction-voiced for a particular attractive sound that audiophiles favor. Nothing wrong with that. I think that the voicing makes speakers such as these highly room dependent, that's why asking 6 people what they sound like gets you 6 different answers.

You could lessen or redistribute the room treatment you have to address the problem or try the SF Lumina which has a better FR (@30 degrees) than the Nova.

It's a shame that you aren't satisfied for the price you paid.

The speakers appear to be 90db sensitivity at 4 ohm. The 585, from my quick research, fails to provide specifications into a 4 ohm load. Odds are this combination is a less than a great match. An amplifier is needed that can haul the mail into a 4 ohm, possibly lower impedance at times, load. 

Sonus faber contrary to reviews are indeed a bit agressive in the higher registers. Even worse with mcintosh. Your room could be playing a role for sure BUT Ive experienced the same thing with fabers. 

The Audioholic's site has the power rating into 4ohms @ 350 watts. 

• 200 watts per channel power output (into 8 ohms, 350 watts into 4 ohms)

Stop using cables as tone controls.  The Sonus are in no way bright sounding speakers.  It is not the room either.  It is the equipment you are using.  We have Vivid speakers in our Listening Room with a brick wall behind them.  No room treatments.  Brightness comes from you equipment as the speakers are only communicating what is feed to them. Someone mentioned Mac components.  Now they are warm and musical.  The ML will never offer a "lush" sound.  It is not how they are designed.

Happy Listening.   

Buy a mic and measure before give any commend about sound quality.

SF isn't as great as the myth, but probably great enough with the right equipment. For sure the best looking speaker design and easy to (re)sell.

Yup the two myths…B&Ws are bright and terrible and SFs are warm and welcoming. Goes back a looong time. Hasn’t been true for at least 10-12 years.
It’s all about synergy. Careful matching and you can get most speakers to sing (at this level at least). And yes matching includes cables. It is not about using cables as tone controls but it is about using cables that match up well and do no harm.

@bidkidz,

+1 about using cables as tone controls. Cables can make a “different flavor “ difference but will not turn something into something else. Cables ain’t gonna fix your issue.
 

Sounds like you just don’t like the speakers although the Sonus reputation is the opposite of how you described them as being bright. Heard some models at dealers in the past but was never overly depressed by them. 

"Buy a mic and measure before give any commend about sound quality"

- That is the silliest thing I have ever heard. Too many libations tonight?

Perhaps the issue is your room.

Keep the gear and find a new 

listening room.

the room is probably harder to change than what's in it

@rlross3 This afternoon I removed my CD rack containing about 300-400 CD’s from my small office. I had an acoustic absorption panel in front of the rack because it was near the first reflection point of my right speaker.

I also increased my wall of computer monitors by adding to 2 more to get 6 monitors. Now I expect more reflections off the monitors and less from the right speaker. Whatever the balance, the sound is improved. My sound was lacking a bit of dynamics or excitement before and now that bit of extra oomph is there. So far this is not fatiguing.

I just wanted to highlight how the contents in the room are so important, more so in a small room like mine. My room used to sound like crap and very fatiguing with the same gear as I am using now.

Next week, I plan to put an exercise bike (Wattbike) in the place of the CD rack. That will also have some effect, likely negative.

Sometime back I added a bookshelf behind the speakers with thick books. The sound really improved. The bookshelf used to be where the current wall of monitors reside (on the other end of the room).

Op , I have a nova 5 and Luxman 595 class A amplifier! It’s perfect in every way to my ears. Excellent sound stage , amazing detail and imaging. I went through a bunch of amps ( michi x3 , x5 , McIntosh mc462/c53 ) I had the same issues you speak off. I also added GiK monster bass traps it worked out great. Pm me if you want more insight. Nova 5 is fantastic speaker not bright like BW and Focals it’s very neutral and has significant bass response for its size. Speaker placement is huge factor in your experience. 

I agree with OP.  Listening to Sheryl Crow is fatiguing.

I have solved this by not buying any of her albums.

Use DSP or a parametric EQ.  My source is computer-based so I can use FabfFilter Pro-Q 3 but there are tons of options out there, software/hardware/both that are pretty cheap compared to changing amps and speakers.

FabFilter

Lots of people have speakers that are too big for the room they use.  Carpeting or hard floor?  Ceiling treatment?  Lots of ways to alter the sound.  Changing cables will only do so much.  Kimber 8tc is not bright in my system.

Sonic Tools on the iPhone. Free. Probly available for Android, too. Sound pressure, spectrum analyzer and more. I’ve used the spectrum analyzer while playing music to see what frequency ranges are popping. You can see what “bright” looks like and go from there.

A similar iPhone product was recommended to me by Dr Roger West from Soundlab. 

+1 Audio Troy. What source(s) are you using?  

I had a similar problem that revealed itself when i listened to Mahler symphonies which I believed to be bright sounding on the peaks.  I thought about it a lot and tried some isolation pucks under my gear and was able to tame the problem. 

Vibration is problematic to a lot of audio equipment. It may be your equipment is fine, but needs to be better isolated - particularly at the volume you like to listen.

Best,

I'd have the amp checked out. Capacitors next to big heatsinks have short lives.

I have tested Kimber Kable 12 TCs and I experienced harshness in the higher frequencies and muted base. Because my experience with Kimber was positive I tried their BiFocal XLs and there was a significant improvement in the sound quality 

Schitt Lokius

OP, after many years of trials and errors I realized that synergy is the very important aspect of the system. Like one gentlemen above, I have now Nova V driven by Luxman 590axii and frond end is luxman d-10x. Sound is so natural, airy and 3D with greatly defined tight textured bass.

I had more expensive setups in my home but they all did not sound as good as my current setup. Room acoustics and synergy  between components and cables is the key. 
what is your front end? What are your Ics and  power cords? Outlets? Dedicated lines?

it’s all very important. 

Cables - I settled with audience front raw for speaker cables, Ics. 
Currently my power cords are very good Triode wire labs Obsessions but saving for Audience front raw. Outlets - all furutech latest gdx  ncf rhodium.

my recent discovery  - all AC outlets on the path to your components including wall and power conditioner or distributor should be from the same make/model to avoid mismatch.
Mechanical  isolation also crucially  important. 

Don’t  skimp on all these things -especially cables and outlets. Or you never hear what you gear is capable of and as result waste tons of money chasing for that sound.
 

The Nova 5s are fantastic speakers. Just a quick glance at this thread I'm thinking the ML isn't the best match.  Also I would upgrade the Kimber 8TC and look into warmer interconnects. The Luxman, McIntosh or consider Audio Research amps. I have the Olympica 3 and they are a tad warmer than the Nova series. McIntosh are great amps however,  I found a MC402 & MC452 didn't have enough low level detail. I then trusted my gut and purchased a ARC REF75SE. Perfect match for the 03. The newer McIntosh amps also seem to be a great match for the Nova series. 

I agree with Bigkidz. I’d try another amp first. Unless you listen in a terrible space, I’d think those speakers should come alive with decent cables, a great source and good amp. At $12k that amp should get them to sing.

How big is your room and what sources do you use?

I’d think a Luxman would sound great with this speakers. I’m perpetually confused by Mark Levinson. Who is the designer and soul behind them?

I nice heard a top line Rotel sound better with a pair of large B and Ws and Sonus Fabre Olympica IIIs than a five figure Levinson.

id bet a reference series Marantz would do the trick smoothly at high volumes too.

@rlross3 If you want to bring out the big guns to tackle this problem. I recommend a DSP genius, Mitch Barnett. That is if you are a ROON or JRiver user.

Accurate Sound Reproduction Using DSP , Barnett, Mitch - Amazon.com

His company is Accurate Sound Home - Accurate Sound

You will have to measure your room with a decent mic ($100) and the free REW software. He will give easy instructions on how to do this. The dude is a genius on this stuff and can make your gear work. 

I used his remote services for my small room. However, after a lot of testing with treatments and moving furniture, I was able to get great sound without the DSP. Not everyone has the ability to add treatments and move furniture, so the DSP is a great safety net.

There are other ways to do this type of DSP (such as in audio hardware) but nothing as powerful as what Mitch does his very expensive DSP computer software (I forgot which 2 he uses).

I have two systems. The living room system cannot sound as good as my loft NO MATTER WHAT I do. The gear is far more expensive in the living room.  The room is your answer. I have accepted defeat in my case. 

Having owned the original version of Kimber 4TC I would try different speaker cables for a start as they did not work in my old setup (dry/tight mid-bass which made the upper registers sound bright - balance wise).

DeKay

@gs5556  Great suggestion ...

If you are using separates, you might consider getting a Legacy Wavelet preamp/processor.  Legacy can tune the Wavelet to your speakers and you can tune the room to the speakers with the built in software.  It might be cheaper than buying another amp or speakers.  You an also try Canare 4S11 speaker cable at less than $2.00 a foot.  They are way better than the Kimber 8TC, not bright sounding, quite neutral.  It’s a cheap way to see if it’s your speaker cables.