OP
just to add more to my post above, my first DAC was a Chord Mojo, then tried SMSL, then Chord Qu test, then went up the Denafrips food chain Ares and finally Venus. All these aforementioned DACS presented music on its own way.
Some say most DAC sound the same. True if your gear's synergy will not at par. But if you had the correct synergy, you would hear differences. A friend of mine who has the Lamp Atlantic TRP wanted to hear if his TRP would make a difference in my gear and so we did a shootout between his TRP versus my Venus. YUP hands down the TRP is a league of its own. music details and nuisances are presents even on streaming media and Vocals are so surreal that I realize I have a long way to go just on my DACs alone. But DSD recorded data stored on my Eversolo dmp-A6 was the true source to beat. Unfortunately, i could not afford the TRP. and so I am back to my trusty friend
|
1+ Mahler123 I use spdif as well
|
I think you will notice the difference, and the Frerot is a good choice. I think you are on the right track in keeping your expectations in check. You are only just starting down the digital rabbit hole, be patient and let your impressions of the gear form over time.
|
My first DAC was junk. My second DAC was junk junque. My third DAC was a bit better. It wasn’t until I bought a Denafrips Pontus ll that things started improving considerably.
|
I stepped up from using the DAC in a McIntosh C52 to an Allnic D-10000. Granted, the Allnic is pretty high-end, being tube driven, output transformer-less and output capacitor-less. The difference was profound. More of everything: black backgrounds, soundstage, warmth, and an analog-like sound. It’s amazing how a dedicated DAC can change your digital game.
|
I didn’t, but yesterday i turned on my Cary dac and it sounded better than my Marantz ruby. So was it the CD or me?
|
Most benefits are in the area of clarity and crispness. I started out in digital with an Arcam Delta 70 player then later added an Arcam Black Box DA converter and went on from there.
|
My first DAC was some cheapo optical to RCA converter to get audio out of my bare-bones plasma screen into my circa 1977 Kenwood integrated. It worked well enough for TV Audio.
Then I bought a Cambridge DAC200 for use in live sound production, and it made enough of a difference that I could hear the improvement in my computer speakers.
When I got serious about a system for my office I started with a Parasound DAC, but it was unreliable and eventually blew up one of my ELAC speakers, so I picked up a Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 that sounded better all around, better bass control, longer tails, etc., but the big upgrade was a DAC3 from Benchmark. I'd say the biggest improvement is in SN ratio, it's dead quiet and since it's the HGC version I can run the output level at full studio-level (0db) into my AHB2 amp. I'm very satisfied with this combo, feeding ATC monitors.
|
It was a bespoke design / built Standalone DAC that was the part of a Digital Source that converted me to having Analogue and Digital as a Source.
For approx' 32 years of CD being a method to replay recorded Music, my system was not using digital.
I know individuals who live and breathe CD as a Hard Medium Source, and apparently I fell well onto my feet with accepting this DAC that has Valves used in the circuit.
For pure musical enjoyment and want to experience recorded music, digital in my system is parity with analogue.
I am now looking at other forms of a digital source and will have two sources being digital at some time, in conjunction with analogue.
Using a recorded music which is a file data that is not part of a tangible experience to manage when creating a replay, will be more like using a radio, but I do that a lot anyways.
|
I'm trying to go into this without expectations and will be sure to take notes on familiar songs before and after.
The fact you started a thread here is proof that you are going into this venture with expectations. Unfortunately, expectation bias is practically impossible to circumvent.
My bet is you’ll hear a notable difference, at least the first time you fire up the new DAC. Later, conduct a level-matched comparison between the WiiM and your new DAC. If you go into it with true objective intent, you will likely be surprised by the outcome.
|
|
oberoniaomnia I compared a $250 Topping D50III with a $5K Holoaudio May 2 DAC, and while there were *slightest* differences, one was not objectively better than the other.
I agree. All DACs sounds different little. These little differences are insignificant and don't matter since veils and glare produced by separate DACs mask delicate music behind speakers.
Also, far laid-back mid-range (human voice) in all systems (except mine) is even harder to hear. Alex/Wavetouch audio
Wavetouch audio live recording.
|
Thank you all for sharing your experiences with first DACs. I'm trying to go into this without expectations and will be sure to take notes on familiar songs before and after.
|
Nothing earth-shattering, IMHE. Compared to speakers, tubes, or TT, DAC differences are at best flavoring. I compared a $250 Topping D50III with a $5K Holoaudio May 2 DAC, and while there were *slightest* differences, one was not objectively better than the other. For some recordings I liked one better, for others the other. And I did a side-by-side comparison, having both plugged in, grouped in Roon, volume matched, so could switch back and forth on preamp for instant comparison.
Differences in recordings are greater than differences between delta sigma and RR DAC, so differences between DS DACs are even smaller. The is confirmed by comparing on headphones the Dragonfly series (red, black, cobalt). I had difficulties convincing myself that I heard any differences. This is at the low end of price spectrum, where one would expect the greatest improvements.
|
Over the last 10 yrs have slowly been putting together my 2-channel system...several mistakes along the way. My TT & analog side I worked on first (over 6 years)...now complete...no future changes. The digital path I struggled with...started with a Bluesound node into my integrated amp with a internal DAC card (McIntosh 2 card)...worked well for 5 yrs until I saved enough to take the plunge to upgrade/finish my digital system. Went with a Aurender N20 streamer into a Berkley Audio DAC & really good interconnects (these made a noticeable difference too). Yes, the first play was a night & day difference from my previous path. Done! Very interesting to do an A/B/C/D/E comparison between a direct stream (I use Tidal) vs Tidal Max vs Aurender hard-drive vs CD vs vs SACD vs TT analog using the same song selection…I still feel nothing compares to a live show in a small venue with good acoustics!
That being said...if I when the lottery will go this route for my digital side...
https://landing.wadax.eu/studio-player/
-
Reference technology:
It incorporates technology from the more expensive Atlantis Reference series, aiming for high-end audio quality.
-
Accessibility:
It offers a more affordable way to experience WADAX's sound compared to their higher-end, multi-component systems.
-
The Studio Player combines a CD/SACD player, streamer, DAC, and preamp into a single unit.
|
My 1st stand alone DAC was a Rega DACr & was eye-opening for sure. Filters were a negligible gimmick but still, was a fine piece & played great. Next was a Line Magnetic LM-502ca @smoorenc (still have it) and that was/is a fabulous DAC especially having Brimar 12au7s swapped in. These days I mostly use a Canor DAC 2.10 that uses 6922 tubes (now stuffed with Siemans E88cc) and its about as god my system is ever gonna sound. I'm at the tweak stage as all other components are dialed in. So, yes, my 1st DAC made a noticeable difference and as I've gone slowly up the ladder, each new DAC has been an equally impactful upgrade. Just my experience
|
Can’t go wrong with an outboard dac! I had reservations about it too because I wasn’t spending much (Cambridge dac magic 200 m) but boy was I shocked at what I was missing! With what you’re getting, you shouldn’t have any regrets. ETM!
cheers!
|
For me yes. My first stand alone DAC was an Eversolo A6. It sounded like a veil had been lifted listening to my favorite test songs. I tried about 10 more with mixed results. Ended up with the Holo Audio Cyan 2 which sounded the best to me within my 2-3K budget.
|
I’ve been listening to a Meridian 218 for a while. Visited my local dealer just to say hi. Listen to the Tambaqui for a few casual hours. I bought it. My mind has been blown
|
My first external DAC was a PS Audio DAC 3. It upsampled and was quite the upgrade. It had a poor USB input but for S/PDIF it was outstanding
|
OH, YEAH!
i continued to test this until it malfunctioned.
|
|
For low cost system all low cost dac are horrible in a way or another...
I was lucky with the SPS NOS dac TDA 1543 paid 20 bucks on Ebay from the designer bid...
I try to improve it and i lost 400 bucks...
Better dac exist at 10 times the cost of all my system...
With money there is only one dac that interest me, the Edgar Choueiri dac which is way more than a mere dac...
|
hey OP
all you mentioned in your post are exactly what i have heard.
now, there are more nuisances in the music. details that are more clear and distinct
but let me be clear first, 1) that all depends on the quality of the DAC you purchased 2) the synergy of the system.
you have a great dac but the reminder of the system cannot reproduce such detail. then nothing else will happen, a slight improvement maybe ??
OR. the dac you got is not any better.so the results may be marginal. really hard to tell the outcome. I wish all will be good as per your expectations
|
My first CD player around 1983 was a two box affair. Sounded better when I upgraded the digital cable. Since then I have had more than 20 dozen DACs in various systems. By and large you get what you pay for. I have bought some small DACs that sounded terrible. I always carefully researched at the level I was buying, so I got a good sounding one. I have has a $22K Berkeley DAC. In general, the more I spent the better they sound, with some performing a little better and some a little less good. In budget categories <$3K there is more variation because your are trading strengths for weaknesses.
|
This is now almost ancient history, but my first-and-only stand-alone DAC was the Muse Model Two, in its day a mighty fine sounding digital converter, and reasonably priced.
|
Compared to what ? Most DACs inside integrated amps
Are poor even compared to a stand alone $800 dac
|
When I started streaming it was, like many, with a Bluesound Node 2i. I listened for a few months and while I enjoyed it, I knew there could be "more". I began searching around and decided on a Border Patrol DAC. It was in my budget and got excellent reviews.
Once it arrived I installed it and let it burn in before any serious listening sessions. When I did finally settle in to see what I'd gotten myself into, I was immediately struck by the larger soundstage and increased detail. Please believe me, I went into the session doing my best to avoid any confirmation bias but there was no denying the improvement. I even swung the cables back to my original configuration... So yes, in my case there was a definite improvement all around and I've never looked back.
If there's a refund/return policy on your new DAC, I would compare your system with it in and without making written notes on what you're hear. It helps a lot!
Happy listening.
|
yes!!! I switched to the line magnetic dac with tubes and I have no desire to change it is so good. I have other ones I switch out it the office and none have compared to the LM-32 DAC.
|
@vrao81 - an MSB Link DAC? Wow, that's even older than my MSB Analog DAC, which I was quite happy with for awhile til I replaced it in that chain with a Holo May KTE.
|
I remember my first dac, msb link dac I back in 2003. I remember being blown away by the sound- much more dynamic, richer, and with more powerful bass. Having owned many dacs since, I now use a SMSL do300
|
Without a doubt. My first dac was manufactured by Musical Fidelity and it made an immediate improvement to my Sony ES cd player. I later purchased an MSB Link Dac III and there was a noticeable improvement with that dac as well. After that, I tried a few newer dacs (Jeshelli) and I didn't notice as mush difference. I just received a Denafrips Ares II / with a Cambridge dedicated Transport and haven't had it long enough to judge how much of a jump I'll get. My experience though is dacs make a difference for the better.
|
|
I would expect the Merason to immediately sound more harmonically correct with better performance at the low and high ends. However all upgrades carry the risk of unintended consequences, be prepared that masked weaknesses in the streamer may be exposed with a better DAC. The main difference between a $1k and $4k streamer IME should be more sophistication in detail and better resolution of background instruments. My first separate DAC years ago was a Dlink III and it was enlightening on how DACs were important.
|
@soix nailed it…
“fuller, richer tonality, more refined treble, and an expanded soundstage”
Having owned Merason’s DAC1 MkII, I would also expect you might hear improved bass.
DACs that have provided a noticeable improvement to my system have made the music sound more natural and less digital.
|
Yes! At every DAC upgrade I heard more resolution, more life, more engagement. My upgrade path went Classe internal DAC > PS Audio DS1 > Auralic Vega G2 > Mola Mola Tambaqui. (All using internal bridge). Then I got a decent streamer, Auralic Aries G1 an that made things more lifelike, breathing air into the sound. Everything does matter, and power supplies (if needed), cables, and tweaks to digital front end all add. With your Tube gear @foamcutter, I would suspect a highly resolving DAC would be amazing.
|
My first DAC was one of the first the Audio Alchemy DACs. It was a step up from the Sony player I was using.
My first DAC that really sounded good was a California Audio Labs Alpha DAC with Delta transport. That was an expensive DAC for a young audio enthusiast, it was $1500 in 1993 . Equivalent to over $3k today.
I've had a number of DACs since , my current DAC is a Lab 12 DAC 1 Reference. Beautiful sounding DAC that i have no intention of replacing anytime soon.
I'd have to try something that really blew me away before selling the Lab 12.
|
I switched from an Oppo UDP-205 to the T+A DAC200. From the first few seconds to date, it always amazes me. It is not even a fair comparison between the two. More of everything, clarity, soundstage and realism. All the things you mention and then some more. Unless some drastically improved tech comes along, I do not envision changing this DAC for the next few years.
|
The Frerot is a nice sounding DAC. Enjoy. I listened to one when looking for a DAC and it sounded really good.
|
Yes! My first DAC was a humble Topping E30. It was audibly better than the stock DAC in my older Denon DCM 440. My second one was notably better yet - a modified SMSL C100 with an upgraded MUSES02 opamp and custom linear regulated power supply.
|
Could be all of the above, but as usual it depends. With Merason I’d expect fuller, richer tonality, more refined treble, and an expanded soundstage. Digital cables matter so don’t skimp there. Here is one I’d recommend as it offers materials/design features (separate data/power legs, 5N silver, Litz construction, Teflon insulation) normally found in much pricier cables.
https://www.lavricables.com/cables/ultimate-silver-dual-usb-a-b-interconnect-cable/
A better streamer with a linear power supply is a worthy upgrade, and upgrading the power supply to your DAC with something from LHY, SBooster, or Teddy Pardo is also very worth considering (should be much cheaper than the Merason power supply). Yeah, it never ends. Just my $0.02 FWIW.
|
