The Wiim app and remote will provide a level of convenience and features that you will be sorry you did not have sooner. Not to mention the sound quality improvement. Try it for 30 days, you can return it if you disagree.
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The key question is whether you have the requisite high-end build quality and audio performance capabilities in the rest of your audio components? While all streamers can play music, the sound quality can vary significantly depending on the components and processing involved The high-end models are key for audiophiles who crave every drop of slam, authenticity and insight from their digital music library.. Experience teaches you that the essence of the musicality also resides in the line signal processing stages, the power supplies (transformers, filtering, regulation), and the digital signal processing before conversion, and the quality of the key components: clocks, transistors, op amps, capacitors, etc… Toddle down to your high-end bricks and mortar audio store and conduct a personal audition bake-off against a high-end build streamer played in a high-end build system. You may be surprised to see a differentiation of “good” as opposed to living with “good enough”. For skeptics, Ask yourself a simple question … If it didn’t matter and a smartphone was a peer quality source, then why do all the audio expo presenters ( and audio dealers ,,,)always play streaming sources exclusively with high end streamers to showcase their systems, For example, the sound wasn’t just cleaner -- the musical backdrop seemed quieter, too, as if the noise floor had dropped noticeably. One was that I could hear deeper into recordings -- subtle details were easier to discern. In a nutshell, resolution was improved. Soundstaging and imaging markedly improved as well. With better clarity, increased resolution, and “blacker” backgrounds, images hung more starkly in space, the spaces between musicians on the stage were far easier to discern, and the width and depth of the stage were greater (provided the recording contained that information).
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Much of the increase is due to the digital components increased quality within a dedicated streamer and dac. This includes better clocks, power supplies, galvanic isolation which all can produce a much better musical presentation. This would include better resolution, imaging, soundstage, transients, and lower noise floor. Basically all the things @akg_ca stated. Bits aren’t bits, there is electrical noise and jitter that are added to an output signal coming from an iPad or iPhone. Whether your rig is transparent or revealing enough to hear that added noise is also a valid question. I run usb from my MacBook Pro but use a ddc and DAC to ameliorate those issues. |
+1 i have a $22K streamer for my main system, worth every penny. I have requisite supporting equipment to make its additional quality well worth it.
My head phone system has a $3.5K streamer providing content. Also well matched. You can see my systems under my userID. ‘’I’ve used, IPhones, iPads, Macs, PCs, and streamers of all investment levels. |
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@dunkin what’s the rest of your system and what chord dac is it? |
Thank you for folks with interest and helpful advice not: @fuzztone Why you have to be so nasty? You have no idea what my room is like and my set up. please go away....You are part of the problem. ignoring you from now on.... anyway... @jl35 (and others). I tried Quboz...you know, sound quality is good. But playlist and other aspects of music choice/varfiety/playlists are also important to me. I did not want to do Spotify but frankly it works and works well. It overcomes l the 5% or so quality loss. @audphile1 (and others) I have a Chord Quest and a good McIntosh system in this room with Totem speakers I'm not a tech guy, but the files served from Spotify (or Qubox or Tidal) on my iPad seems to show same bit rate and depth. (44/16 etc ) on my DAC. So is a separate streamer just for really really good systems that can hear that final 1-3% of sublime music? (I may not be that audiophile)
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I find in the "streamer" discussion, the access management and the DAC question is muddled. For sound quality, the DAC is the chief factor. If you plan on keep using your Chord as the DAC, then the streamer is solely for access convenience. Maybe a given streamer has a better built-in DAC than a Chord, but then you could get the same result by using a similar quality stand-alone DAC, which you could also use for the DAC step in CD playing. I think there recently was a thread of DAC-free streamers. One thing I am not clear in your set-up: What is your current software interface? Website, Spotify app, Audirvana/Roon? Some people claim to hear differences with software interfaces. With trial versions available for free, that is an easy way to check one factor out. I compared Audirvana and Roon and could not detect anything. I use a Mac mini with SSD going to a Holoaudio May L2 DAC but only for local FLAC files. I don't stream. |
Streamers are networking computers optimized for audio. It will stream the same digits as your tablet. Most streamers will do it much better than your tablet. In digital audio timing is crucial. If the 1s and 0s arrive slightly out of sync (this is called jitter) than the sound can change quite significantly. Most streamers will beat a tablet or a phone because the portable devices are jack of all trades and haven’t been optimized for sound |
If you want to free your iPad for other uses, you can build yourself a nice little streamer for $60-$70 all in. Get yourself a raspberry pie zero W2 computer board which costs about $15 and buy a case (you actually don’t need the case, it typically costs as much as the pi zero) and a wall wart power supply And then download Ropiee streaming software,which is free. You can stream to it via AirPlay and also it is a Roon end point. The electronics are very simple, it has just the basic computing power that you need for streaming. I have built a couple and find that they compare favorably with much more expensive streamers. |
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We all use streaming for many different purposes. For me it's exploring new music. For many playlists are crucial. Some use for primary listening, others more as background. This all affects what streaming device is best for us. CD's are 1411 kbps, Spotify's top level is 320 kbps, so they eliminate more that 3/4 of the bits...The WiiM Pro Plus is an amazing device for it's price. Try one and see what you think... |
There are numerous variables in play here, but perhaps the most significant question is if using your iPad as a source device maintains a bit perfect audio stream to the USB output. Interestingly enough, I believe there may an issue streaming Apple Music, but what I find in a quick search implies that third party (e.g. Spotify, Tidal, etc.) content comes through unmolested (ie. not resampled by iOS). Inexpensive streamers (e.g. WiiM) bring a one-stop shop of features and conveniences that satisfy most consumers. More expensive streamers bring lower noise power supplies, more precise clocks, and more expensive integrated DAC platforms that appeal to discriminating consumers. You already have a standalone Chord Qutest DAC, so no reason to spend on an integrated DAC that you won’t use. Your Chord Qutest DAC has galvanically isolated USB implementation that minimizes electronic noise generated by your iPad and is the preferred connection. With asynchronous USB, your Qutest DAC (not source device) has the master clock, which is plenty good for your Spotify streaming. The important caveat here is if you use your iPad for volume control, it is doing this in the digital domain and adversely impacts dynamic range. If you have a means of controlling volume in the analog domain (post DAC), that is the preferable route. For best results, you would set your iPad volume around 95% of maximum and control system volume at the preamp or amp. |
Hi, If you go to amazon.com, you can buy your Wiim and have 30 days to return it no questions asked. Once you do that, you need to get ride of Spotify and get Qobuz. They also have a 2 months free period. I guarantee you will hear the difference. Once you hear it, you can unheard it. You will never go back. You will only go forward, as there is much much better sound as you are willing to invest more in your system/room acoustics. If your ever get to vinyl, you will find that the same record, pressed in different years sound completely different. It happens with digital as well. This hobby is for the long run, but my proposed two trials represent a great start, risk free. Enjoy!! |
Switched from streaming via a MacBook using USB to my DAC to using an Aurender N20 Streamer. Significant improvement. Better imaging, Sounstage, Depth and overall sound quality. Laptops, and computers add noise and muddy the sound. You won’t notice until you replace with a dedicated streamer of decent quality. |
@dunkin in that system I would ditch iPad as a source and Spotify as a service and switch to Tidal or Qobuz. |
As @bbenzaquen6343 stated:
Agreed wholeheartedly... and the costs are about the same. Just make sure to seek out and attentively listen to some of the hi res audio available. Pardon the redundancy, but it's true, once you hear it, you can't unhear it. |
Folks, appreciate the comments and knowledge. But I want to be clear on the question I am asking. I am not asking about software (Qobuz v Spotify). No matter what app, the question is: is a streamer somehow better(quality of music) at serving the same files as an iPad or PC....both connect to the Spotify (or Qobuz) server. Does the hardware really make a difference in serving same files in the music streamer app cloud? |
My experience is that a dedicated streamer running into a good DAC will not improve the sound quality if streaming Spotify...but that it will improve the sound quality if using Tidal or Qobuz...quality of the streamer only matters if it’s being fed a high quality source...in your situation, I don't think a dedicated streamer will improve sound quality... |
Ok, I’m gonna answer your question directly. I started streaming with my iPad and it sounded fine but CDs sounded better by a good margin and I was disappointed. The good folks here encouraged me to get a streamer, so I got an inexpensive iFi Zen Stream (with upgraded iPowerX power supply) and the difference was literally night and day. Bottom line — the iPad is a crap streamer and you don’t know what you’re missing. Further, my guess is once you have the better resolution with a streamer you’ll hear greater differences between services like Tidal/Qobuz and Spotify. If you don’t like the selection on Qobuz maybe try Tidal. In any event, don’t fool yourself into thinking the iPad is ok as a streamer because it absolutely is not and it’s greatly compromised. |
I tend to disagree with @jl35 a little bit on this. While I agree Tidal/Qobuz will sound better than Spotify given good enough equipment, my improvement with a streamer over the iPad was so large I have to think you’d still notice a significant improvement even using Spotify. Just a semi-educated guess given my experience. FWIW. |
@dunkin you have asked a question and you got answers. But you continue to doubt that a dedicated streamer will be an improvement. Why did you get a DAC? You could have run an adapter from iPad to RCA and feed your McIntosh…iPad has a DAC in it. No need for Chord Qutest. All jokes aside, purpose built streamers will execute their task better than a multi purpose smart tablet or computer. All the unnecessary crap that can compromise the performance is removed. You can be the judge if this by trying a WiiM streamer. |
Thank you @soix. I will try that ad it makes sense. Thank you. |
Actually @audphile1 While I was getting some kind answers, but I was getting a lot of advice about changing from Spotify to something else, and having freedom to move around my room choosing music. I was not asking those questions. I am interested in understanding the why using a dedicated streamer over using a PC or iPad is better…(not why Qobuz is better than Spotify…) Some kind folks have answered about their experience using a streamer, and that music sounds much better this way. I believe them and appreciate their time to answer my question. Full stop: Thank you!! I still do not understand *why* a dedicated streamer is better than a computer, technically. Seems to me, they are "running" the same file. ( I am not a tech-person). why is "serving that file from a streamer better than from my PC? Same files, same USB cable.... And yes, I have a DAC because I did not like the sound of the built-in DAC in my Amplifier. But the DAC is hardware. I know that a dedicated-engineered DAC is better than whatever DAC chip is slapped into my Apple product. But to me, the streamer is serving or "playing" a file to my DAC…just like the iPad would be sending that file into the same dedicated DAC. Why should the streamer be better? Again, I appreciate the answers and the advice. Thank you |
Let’s try this… Dedicated streamers: 1. Better power supply - lowers noise 2. Isolated network from audio chain 3. Hard-wired to network - minimizes the EMI inside the unit caused by wifi receiver 4. audio grade digital clock - reclocks the digital signal to reduce jitter on the digital output ensuring as clean a signal as possible to be sent to DAC 5. isolated USB output to minimize jitter 6. Purpose built and designed firmware for better processing of signal in digital domain prior to feeding DAC. 7. high resolution streaming with bit rates higher than the 16/44 redbook CD 8. no non-purpose tasks that the OS needs to run - focus is solely on ingesting the feed from streaming services and converting it to signal that your DAC would understand The degree of improvement varies based on hardware and software design. Objective is to get the cleanest possible signal out to your DAC. User experience with the native software is a user preference and priority. Tethering your iPad to your DAC is not a thing with streamers because the tablet becomes your remote controller. iPad … built to serve many purposes which it performs equally well. It’s a jack of all trades, master of none. It does everything at once without regard for minimizing jitter on its output because it doesn’t care…it isn’t built to be a streamer. This goes back to my lawn mower example. But somehow I feel you will continue to woodpecker this until you annoy yourself and everyone else. Good luck! |
@audphile1 This is really awesome tech info and what I need to learn. thank you. I appreciate you taking the time for my specific question.
@audioman58 Thank you also. makes sense |
@dunkin You ask do I need a dedicated streamer? I answer, ‘No you do not.’ But I interpret those who have tried to counsel you on this matter, that, considering that you have a good DAC, amp, and speakers, if were to TRY a dedicated streamer (and perhaps some software delivering lossless audio), you would WANT a dedicated streamer. The sound is that much better. But far be it from me to tell you what to do. Be happy. Listen to the music. |
OP
you don’t really need a streamer. As I mentioned up thread streamers are just networking computers that are optimized for playing audio files. They also look like audio components and not like PCs. They tend to dispese with the OS that PCs use and utilize OS optimized for music playback as opposed to say, trying to sell you stuff. If a PC, or tablet,sounds fine to you in your system, then you are done. |
@dunkin I love the Spotify playlists playing music at random. They offer a much better variety of topics to choose from and then they individualize the number of playlists as I recall which are very good. Playlists on Q or T are not as good. I was able to transfer many Spotify playlists over to qobuz. I thought Spotify was going to offer hi-fi at some point. If you buy a streamer, probably will be a lot better than an iPad especially if you have McIntosh and a chord dac ( I have a TT two Hugo chord, and a lumin x1 streamer/dac that I like a lot more). I also have blue sound which was kind of crappy. The commentary here in related to a streamer I found especially helpful and prepared by people who really know what they’re doing. Who knows maybe there’s a billionaire that’s writing a comment. Streamers do a lot of stuff. I also enjoy exploring endless rabbit holes which require additional fees to open up new tunnels and some tunnels are extremely expensive to explore. Unfortunately, the tunnels are so complicated that you probably will not be able to escape. So I would approach this Area carefully. |
Thank you @oldrooney @emergingsoul @audioman58 @mahler123 |
To the OP: a good lawyer doesn’t just answer your question if there’s a problem with the premise embedded in your question. Similarly for good audiophiles. As many have told you, if you stream using Spotify, you’re wasting your money if you spend more than Wiim (or RPi) money on a dedicated streamer. Spotify streams at about the same rate as the high option for Youtube! If you ever solve/change your music source, come on back - there’s a lot of nuance - and some disagreement among members - regarding exactly how much and in what use cases dedicated streamers can make a significant difference. |
The Wiim products are a great path on which to begin. Just got the pro unit the other day and it works just dandy. It doesn’t seem like it will do the DSD stuff but I’m not to that worry at this time. Also have the Wiim B06 in the other system that works great as well. The Plex app is what transfers the music from the computer to the Wiim units. It works great and is of a low cost. Highly recommended. |
@jssmith If you don't mind me asking, what streamer or streamer/dac are you using these days? I had somebody get pretty upset (not here) when I asked them what they were using after they had a similar take on digital streaming gear. They had said it doesn't matter and any cheap one would do and when I asked what they had, they had a fairly pricey streamer. Seems a bit hypocritical but what do I know? |
