While there will be some consolidation (usually marketing, finance, legal, HR, I doubt they will risk losing made in USA and Italy manufacturing given current situation between US and China) I wouldn’t see this as an asset striping exercise either, otherwise the VCs would have followed that route earlier. I do see Bose however using this to establish a presence in the higher end and use its resources to see what further market share it can achieve with these brands. Given the investments Bose are making it would be sensible to build upon rather than devalue their high perceived value. So swings and roundabouts, and no doubt it will be interesting to see the developments that happen over the next 5 years and the new realities emerge.
113 responses Add your response
| Post removed |
People expressing all the optimism are kiddong themselves. These kind of deals where a large company with an inferior product buys a company(or in this case two companies) that in comparison make something league's above them is never a good thing for consumers. I've owned Macintosh pre and power amps and tho I sold them as I felt there was more out there for me I still respect their brand and their unique sound, and now likely will never be the same. And how ironic I've had my eye on a pair of SF speakers. This gives me some urgency to purchase before they are no longer available and risk the new models being an inferior product. I'm not optimistic at all but that's probably because I live in the real world. I know that's just my opinion but I feel strong about it on this one. |
This is hardly bad news. A storied up-market home audio brand, made still in the USA, is bought from its PE owners by a well-known U.S. broad market audio company already well-established in the personal audio space, professional coms, in home audio and in automotive integrations, with a track record of innovative product offerings (noise-cancelling headphones, worn both in coach and in the cockpit.) It costs money to exist in the space McIntosh enjoys, and there are only so many ways to reach new buyers. Samsung has been buying many brands also. Some storied brands have been cut up, Sennheiser among them. Would that have been better? The blindered views of some around here who can't see the positives in things like excellent class-D products that reach new customers and address power and energy consumption issues in ways older technologies never will are more of an impediment to the hobby than Bose ever will be. |
It's too soon to tell. One thing is certain: cutting costs is on the top of the list. It always is in these modern roll ups. If cutting costs becomes "cheapen the product" Mac is doomed to Marantz's fate. Alternatively; If there are economic efficiencies to be had- ie: sharing buying power, advertising discounts, etc. it would be good for Mc assuming it keeps it's corporate culture. I'm hopeful that Bose puts a slug of cash into Mc and Mc improves their product offerings and ups their quality. Sometimes a bespoke brand is a status acquisition and not a profit play ie: Acora buying Audio Research. |
How can this possibly be worse than McIntosh being owned by a private equity firm, which now sold McIntosh to a company that has been immersed in the audio business for a long, long time. There’s no logic in many of these comments, speculating about the sky falling with cost cutting, reduction in R&D spend and staffing, short term profit focus, etc. That’s exactly what private equity firms do and the previous owners didn’t, so there’s absolutely no reason to believe that Bose would do this. Calm down and let’s just see how this plays out. |
| Post removed |
@ ken6217 "So you think Bose bought Mcintosch and SF to basically run them into the ground? Sure, that makes a lot of sense." I best guess is that Bose bought McT and SF for the juice - They will substitute similar, lower quality parts (particularly in SF), increase marking $ to drive sales higher for a short time, then spin-off one or both to another PE firm. That is the standard playbook... and I hope that I am wrong about this. If that happens, the products of both premium brands will suffer significant damage to their perceived market-value. |
Wow! This forum sounds like someone threw a firecracker in a chicken coup. I've seen corporate acquisitions/takeovers as a dealer who put his heart and soul, reputation, and more than a few shillings into brands we were passionate about. This included taking the brand (or even a product category) from a virtual unknown, to market dominance. These takeovers were sometimes neutral, sometimes beneficial, and sometimes an emotional and financial disaster for us. Watching an esteemed brand you took years, space, dollars, and human interaction to build, converter to an over-distributed, dumbed-down commodity can be down right brutal (on many levels). It is dependent on the corporate strategy starting from the top, working its way to regional managers, to the boots on the ground guys/gals that come face to face with the dealer network -- and, the end user -- the customer. I'm hoping that Bose maintains the Mac staffers who understand the brand and what makes it work. I doubt if we're going to see McIntosh hybrid SS/tube amps bulked stacked at Costco any time soon. And, on yeah, Volkswagen owns Porsche and Lamborghini. |
@williesaid glad I am not the only one who finds the Mac design an eyesore. The combination of ostentatious and ugly is a punch 1-2. Fortunately, there are plenty of alternatives. |
We might see some mid-tier McIntosh & Sonus Faber models enter the Bose distribution channel, but prestige branding for the luxury auto market is the big score-- and Bose has lots to gain here. Who is winning? Bose: Honda, Mazda, Porsche McIntosh: Jeep Harman Kordan: BMW, VW, Volvo, KIA Burmester: Porsche, Mercedes, Ferrari Mark Levenson: Lexus JBL: Toyota Meridian: Jaguar, Range Rover B&W: McLaren, Aston Martin Naim: Bentley Bespoke Audio: Rolls Royce B&O: Audi Muskmobile*: Unbranded(?) Harman, JBL, Levinson, AKG *Note: Musk reportedly uses Sonus Faber speakers in his home gaming system. |
As others have mentioned, the last 2 owners have been private equity. From a business standpoint, Bose is likely a far better option from an ownership standpoint than a PE firm. PE firms often destroy culture, branding, quality and along the way load their investments up with a ton of debt. They know going in that only a percentage of the companies they invest in will survive and their soul goal is to build up revenue, market share so they can flip the investment for a profit. A PE firm could care less about the market their investments companies are in or their customers. The fact McIntosh has not only survived but thrived during several sales, PE ownership / management is a testament to the brands value, staying power. Doesn’t really matter if you like Bose or not, the fact they are at least in the Audio space and appear to value that space with an eye for growth sets up McIntosh for a better long term shot at success. It wasn’t sustainable for Mac to continue to be spun off to PE Firms, no company survives continuing to ride on that Merry Go Round ride. If you know PE firms and how they work, this isn’t a bad thing. Now, could Bose damage the brand, hurt the quality by making bad decisions on cutting cost and hurting the quality of the gear, absolutely, hopefully they approach this from the top down, look to McIntosh for the blueprint on how to sell high end gear at what I would guess are way higher profit margins than what they are used to seeing. |
There is little doubt that Bose will use their stellar product management team to find ways to reduce the prices of McIntosh gear. Bose currently uses China, Malaysia, and Mexico to manufacture parts and using parts made abroad to utilize in McIntosh products is a no-brainer. The previous investment firm owners squeezed all the money they could out of Binghamton, but did not have the want or the expertise to reduce the price by outsourcing. Bose does. McIntosh has been lagging as a leader in high end gear for years. Storied? Yes. Superior name associated with a hi-end sound signature? Yes. Competitive? Not so much. To give one a quick synopsis; McIntosh revenue was $42 million last year. Bose revenue was $3 billion. Yamaha audio was nearly a billion. Harmon $2.3 billion. Heck, even Klipsch bests McIntosh with reference to revenue. Market share for McIntosh products has significantly decreased, while they are being beaten handily by competitors who are far more globally savvy. To be blunt, there is a lot that a company like Bose can do to increase revenue for a brand name as recognizable as McIntosh. The name will be compromised- the products will suffer- but more people will purchase them. Capitalism is what makes America great. While outsourcing has been controversial in nature, there is no doubt that manufacturing in America is over - and there is no going back. |
Bose has outstanding engineering talent driven by outstanding product developers and a rigidly scientific approach to discovering what customers would buy. I may not be their target audience, at all, but there are things they do very well. I’m sure Bose will bring their background in market research and customer testing to McIntosh. This probably means the company will go in a different direction than it has so far, but don’t blame the engineers. Blame the test audience. Of course, they could also feel the Mc brand was so affordable they can slap the label on imported plastic boxes and charge 10x more until they drive the brand into the ground. Time will tell. |
One of the best car stereos I ever had was the McIntosh system in my 2003 Subaru Outback VDC. Although the car was too noisy to really appreciate it, in park, it sounded pretty good. I did speak to someone (Chuck Hinson?) at McIntosh about it once, and he sent me some technical diagrams, indicating that, although some of this was from Clarion, McIntosh did indeed have a hand in the design.
In other news: The next Sonus Faber line will do away with those unnecessary tweeters and woofers, and get full range sound from the midrange drivers using patented Bose technology. Also, McIntosh will introduce a new Lifestyle line of electronics, with undisclosed power ratings, and "really cute" tiny speakers your s.o. will love! The new McIntosh turntable will be a rebranded model from Crosley, complete with a high quality ceramic cartridge, and will retail for $7,999. 😁 |
This seems like a lifestyle corporate purchase for an iconic lifestyle brand. McIntosh certainly makes quality equipment, but most is far from state of the art. The use of the auto formers really adds a distinctive sound character and the use of the high gain 12AX7 tube in line sections seem limiting to me. The hybrid amplifiers seem interesting but those autoformers… I’ve been underwhelmed by Bose products since their early days. The imaging of the 911’s was gawdawful, with voices the width of the speaker separation or wider. Now if Schiit were to be bought by Bose, THEN I would be upset!
|
The best mfg car stereo I had was an Infinity labeled system in a Chrysler Sebring. I believe what made it sound so good was the room - er, interior. A soft top lowered the noise from bouncing around, and when the rag top was down, the sound was even better. When one states that 50% of sound is the room, I believe it. So if sound is to be bettered in a car, you would need the engineer to start with a clean slate of nothing and work up from there. I found the McIntosh in the Wagoneer to be a sellout of sorts; even the meters are merely screen shots. I do, however, believe that a far better McIntosh wireless bluetooth (or portable) system will be in the offing as Bose is really good with doing things "apple" like. I wish I was on the other side of the pond! But the mfg claim could be said for the UK as well as they have yet to find peace with what has already happened. I remind folks to give Leonard Cohen's edition of "The Future" (live version is the best) so that they can prepare to.."slide in all directions".. |
Well I’ve never bought Mac and Sonus Faber only used in a good deal. Personally, nothing much to lose and maybe something to gain, but I can understand the concern. If quality of new Mac and SF were to go down as part of new marketing strategy, I would expect that to only increase the value of existing classic Mac and SF gear.
That plus Mac and SF have their unique aspects that many fancy but far from the only fish in the sea. I'm not really concerned that I may not be able to find good quality hifi gear for good value moving forward as needed.
|
Amen to that. Times change and always nice when valued products continue to survive. I get the concern. Last year John Strohbeen, the force behind Ohm speakers for 40 some years , passed. Company was up for sale but never sold apparently. Others who learned under JS’s wings are carrying the ball now. So far the only noticeable change is prices for both new and used Ohm gear have gone up a lot in recent years. I would much rather have Bose acquire Ohm than have to say goodbye, even though the Ohms I have will most likely outlive me. Ohm Walshes are totally unique . Nothing else like them (unlike Mac and SF). mbl has similarities but those cost way more and are not practical in most folk's rooms at home. |
I worked for a long time to get my mc6700, 252 and 2 pair of SF. Part of the fun was going to a real retailer and hearing the difference. Now it will be buy at Costco. It won’t change how I like what I have but changes my attitude. Call me a brand snob. I get it. And 6700 has magic blue meter but when I listen to Chet Baker they hardly move. It’s eye candy for sure |
This really could go either way, but it doesn't have to be a disaster. It could actually be a very good thing. Just depends on how things are handled by the new management. But isn't that the case with any changes? If the brand wasn't sold at all but just switched out a key management figure, we might get just as much or more changes compared to this situation. So who knows. I would just point out that Samsung purchased Harman back in 2016 and it seems to be fine. They have different lines for AKG and JBL etc but Revel has since launched some very fine speakers (the F series) which are not watered down at all compared to pre Samsung models. I'd like to see what they do next with the Salon series but that only refreshes every decade or two so it might be a while. |
@moonwatcher Best Buy sells McIntosh now. Not sure what your point is. |
@tkrtrb125 just that we’ve seen this movie before, and the ending isn’t pretty. The same thing happened to AKG, the originally Austrian brand that made studio quality microphones. Once they were sold, the brand name recognition was used to market a bunch of cheap headphones, and such being sold at Best Buy now for the clueless masses that think anything slightly better than Apple ear buds is "audiophile". AKG doesn’t even manufacture their AKG-C480B pencil condenser microphones anymore. Gone. For us old geezers, we have to continually check our perceptions of these once venerable companies when we reach for our wallets. Very few of them are anything at all like they were 30 or 40 years ago. They exist in name only. |
Bose wanted into the ups ale market. Why spend and spend over years to develop that segment when you can just buy it? How they manage/interfere with the acquisition will have to be seen. Mac has an excellent marketing base that would best not be messed with. Hopefully Bose will follow that. Rebranding would be disastrous. I’m on my way tomorrow to pay for a 7K amp. Great timing, right? |
@howardlee get it while you can and while you know it is "good". I kick myself every time I record concerts, wishing I had bought some AKG-C480B mics when I had the chance... |
I would absolutely expect the very highly regarded Mac and Sonus Faber brand names will be milked for all they are worth. That just means some new and but hopefully quality products targeting a larger market might start to come under those brand names. Does not necessarily mean the the "high end" items are no more. As long as they are profitable..... We will see. THere are surely a lot of smart and successful people involved who will continue to release a wide range of good quality products that people want (I hope). I will look on the bright side until proven wrong. Would not be first time.... My bet is my Mac/SF product consumption personally can only go up assuming new high quality yet cost effective products come to fruition. |
Harmon acquisition of Roon has worked out well. Roon was a performance and reliability mess prior. Much better since! Hopefully all teh corporate resources invested means even brighter results down the road. Formalized technical support is still virtually non-existent. I would fix that soon to help pave the way to more happy customers down the road. |
I will not be selling. I recall having the same concerns when they were bought by the private equity firm that just sold them. None of those concerns became reality. Other than some questionable branding of “wearables” the article is all about reaching customers in the luxury brand segment. Not sure how you reach those buyers by diluting the brand you acquired to get you through the door. McIntosh sales are up year over year and the article sites a 12% growth in luxury brand sales. While I understand the concerns it doesn’t read that way to me. Even if it all falls apart, I will enjoy my pre sh*t show integrated and lament the passing of a once great brand. |
