Older thread, but thought I would give some feedback on the BLACK ICE AUDIO F35 Integrated. Mine is still currently breaking in. Approximately 100 hours on it at the moment. I recently rolled some KT 150’s in place of the EL 34. Big improvement....
Anyway short summary.....easily one of the better buys currently in audio for an integrated amp. Looks very nice, sounds even better. Have had several integrated units in the system in the past two years ranging in price from 1500.00 to 10 K (Esoteric F5). I like the F35 better than all of them, with the possible exception of the Esoteric...The Esoteric has been gone for over a year, so no side by side compare, but as much as I enjoyed the Esoteric, the Black Ice F35 is just as enjoyable....Plan to put some better coupling caps in
(V Cap..ODAM) and change out the inexpensive TI op amp to a very nice discrete SPARKO op amp. This should allow the F35 to open up even more with cleaner and more relaxed, detailed mids n highs.....
Cheers.... |
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I am currently using a Pathos Classic Model One MKII in my system Speakers are 87dB. Room Is 12X15'. This integrated provides a very smooth presentation with drive. It is also has show case looks. The latest model is the MKIII which sells for $2995. I have seen used ones for sale, not often however. Spec at 70/130 WPC into 8/4 ohms. |
I just read what speakers you are using, I also own revels and rogue. Rogue drives them well, I also have multiple audio friends with the same combo, it's great together. Good luck. |
Another vote for the Rogue Cronus mag 3, the new version is one of the best bang for the buck products in the entire industry, for 3k full retail it's a stunner. |
Another vote for the Rogue Cronus mag 3, the new version is one of the best bang for the buck products in the entire industry, for 3k full retail it's a stunner. |
Rogue transformer hum hit or miss not the best transformers and horrible grade tube socketstubes get loose $2 socket ,Really not good , I hate low grade brass connectors ,
I no longer buy their gear. That’s my take after owning 4 off them much better quality out there that’s competitive .Ayon , Jolida Anew a Black ice,triode Audio Canada excellent build you pay more but very good quality.
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Right now best bang for the buck the New Jolida Black ice
it has a nice meter right on top easy biasing which is more accurate then auto bias which averages , all the heart - the transformers use very good German transformers , and very nice looking in Indiana great pricing, for more money Ayon
better then Prima Luna any day of the week. I have owned both
Ayon is high quality built in Austria ,not China and a Tube USA gives very. Good deals on them.prima Luna pricing has gone up
a lot since upscale Audio has been putting ads up for years ,
land in part reviews are political for sure.i owned a Audiostore
and have many sad stories of very good companies going belly up
because they could not afford say $50k for advertising ,which
would give them ratings and good exposure. Keep that in mind
look. For reviews from around the globe and forums to see how
good build quality is customer service ,as well as longevity.
roughly only 25% actually goes into the product that is why many times like myself I mod them ,or have them upgraded with premium parts , upscale audio brags about Solen capacitors which in reality are low average at a Best !! A 6 rating out of 15 on top grading capacitor scale .i hold mfg accountable , most use brass connectors which suck vs gold over copper sonicly as well as conductivity keep that in mind .a very noticable upgrade in sonics ,look at your IEC power cord input no name $2 sink brass crap, when for a less then $15 wholesale you can install a gold over Copper Furutech 5x less. Resistance to start which is a Hufe bottle neck and robs low level detail. This shows they don’t care
these little things should Allways be included most people would gladly pay the extra $1-200 for Gold Copper IEC,st least 1 pair rca,
loudspeaker s and amp terminals same thing for $150 night and day better I put the WBT. In myself ,it’s about time companies
start stepping up !! Thatis how a Modwright got his start by providing top quality parts in key areas , in loudspeakers 90%
are substandard Xover parts .i have 20+ years of experience ,even in $$ name brands ? I have called and emails several , a few have listened, others don’t care. |
After being punished with digital amp scratch I’m getting back into a sub 3k tube amp too! How do the new integrated tube amps compare to the old legends like CJ and VAC Avatar? I can’t see spending 3k on something that will inevitably need 1k worth of work and protection from UPS warehouse lawn dart games. Wanting advice soon so I can play some tunes for Mrs. Claus while I unleash the black mamba I have for her. |
Anyone hear the F35 from Black Ice Audio, Jolida Company. With how attractive it is it must sound good. 🤪
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I have forty years of experince with high fidelity an I love classical and jazz music. After all these years of listening I have only one choice: Prima luna, the best value for money. Enjoy |
+1 on the LM508. The Raven Blackhawk provided excellent sounding vocals and is a good selection at a lower price point for efficient speakers. The LM508 accuracy, soundstaging and fast deep bass sounds wonderful driving Tekton DI’s. I added an ifi iGalvanic 3.0 and virtually eliminated all the hum and pops. Detail recovery and decay is off the charts.
A higher power integrated from Raven would be worth a spin. Dave is a pleasure to deal with. |
Thanks for all the responses, lots to take in and research, I truly appreciate everyone’s help! |
Coincident Technology Dynamo 34SE MKIII.I've had the two previous models and the current production MKIII is special.With an NOS tube complement it is one of the most competent Integrated amps available.
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PrimaLuna makes a wide range of high quality tube integrated amps to fit your budget. I own a $2k Mystere IA11 (sister company and made by PrimaLuna). Superb build and sound, so consider PrimaLuna available from Upscale Audio, as well as the Mystere brand. |
Really nice, dealer demo, low hour VTL IT 85 for sale on US audio mart with full warranty.. I’m not affiliated with sale. I think this would also be a great choice.
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I would agree with the few people out here that said the Rogue Magnum would be the best especially after you rolled the tubes |
Consider building one from a kit If you can get someone to mentor you if you wonder whether you will get it right. Everything you will solder together is large and easy to get to and there are many fewer parts. You will have freedom to make the chassis in your own style and you will appreciate amplifiers more after you learn more about them.
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The answer to your question is somewhat dependent on the speakers you want to drive and at what listening levels. That said, there are lots of good suggestions above.
I own an SLI-80 with quite a few factory upgrades. Bought it used in the stock configuration and a couple of years ago had it upgraded. Really like the result. Use it to drive Merlin TSMs (8 Ohm, 87dB); not a hard load, but not an easy one.
Miniature tubes are all NOS. Have tried quite a few different power tubes (one of the virtues of the SLI-80 is the variety of power tubes it can accommodate). Generally rotated between Winged-C EL-34s (triode) and Gold Lion KT-88s (ultralinear) for a few years. Tried KT120s (ultraliner) on a lark and they turned out to be an extremely good match.The clean sound, improved extension top and bottom, and the effortlessness with which they handled the Merlins made them my standard.
Good luck in your search!
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Another vote for Rogue. Great products and customer support is AAA+ |
Strong recommendation here for the Audio Research VSi60, which you can probably pick up used in your price range. About 50 watts.
I've owned one, loved it, sold it to a friend who loves it. Have heard it compared to comparably priced Rogues -- blew them away. |
It’s a bit of a stretch, but I’d go for the Pathos Acoustics Twin Tower integrated amp just listed this morning 12/7. Ideally, you could negotiate toward your price and hopefully, you are fairly close because I could see it getting damaged in shipping. -No affiliation. Beautiful, excellent sounding Italian hybrid amplifier. (Not Chinese.) |
I can vouch for the Rogue Audio recommendations. I have a Cronus Magnum II and it's great! |
Here’s Huff’s review of the Line Magnetic amp, which sounds very much like their amps noted above. Though, I think I might even like the LM 518ia, or LM 805ia a bit better. Huff kinda "goes nuts" over every new amp he reviews. But, you will have a difficult time finding a better sound than any of these Line Magnetic amps. Certainly for their modest price. Of course... provided... that you mate them with the right speakers (e.g. Proac Response D2). https://www.stevehuffphoto.com/line-magnetic-219ia-integrated-tube-amp-review-300b-and-845-tube-magic/ |
The Raven Audio Blackhawk has the best sound out of the box- truly high end rich yet transparent.
If you need more power the Rogue CM II/III can sound nearly as good with some tube rolling of the 5 small signal tubes.
May have been supporting systems but I did not care for the sound of the Line Magnetic integrated amps.
The Primaluna sound very good but tend to have a certain flavor to the sound and have too many tubes to deal with for me to bother. |
Without question... the Line Magnetic integrated amps... will amaze you. Just incredible resolution of detail, clarity, and 3d soundstage. Those mentioned above are as good as it gets! |
Quicksilver. Hand made in USA and sounds excellent.
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This is easily comparable to other suggestions, and almost HALF your budget. https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9j038-primaluna-dialogue-1-tubePlenty for what you describe as use. It will drive your speakers, and worry free. You don't need a 50-100 watt spec on paper, if you think it won't drive your speakers. Go to the webpage for any questions about it. Been using PL products over 10 years.Ignore the import bashers |
I have a Primaluna Dialogue HP, paired with Revel F208. It is a great match, the system sounds fantastic. You could get a similar result with the Primaluna dialogue for under $3k used. In fact, being slightly lower in power may give it a bit more finesse. |
All interesting suggestions. One I like a lot is a Coincident Turbo 845 SET integrated. Obviously 845 power tubes, with 300B’s providing 28 class A SET watts, but more importantly 500+ Jules so it has gobs of reserve power for loud transients. Used price $3k-$4k. |
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Icon Audio Stereo 40 Very well regarded in Europe On sale at Music Direct https://www.musicdirect.com/integrated-amp/icon-audio-stereo-40-mkiii-m-tube-integrated-amp?variant=...Triode TRV-88SR Boutique Japanese brand, excellent quality and sonics. Made in Line Magnetic Factory -I own a Triode TRV P845SE / Stereo 845 amp. Sublime. Out of the box: Restored Fisher X1000 Integrated Amp. EL-34 output tubes and about 40wpc. It has a phono stage, but it also sound wonderful. $3k is about correct to purchase one in good condition, then have it restored. There are also various Luxman tube integrated amp models that may be worth investigating. |
The cronus mag ii is an outstanding amplifier .I highly recommend it . Very detailed with accurate imaging . I’m fed up with buying nos tubes . Its a total crap shoot. I am going to stick with new after this. New mullards sounded woody with rolled of highs . So far so good with gold lions. Some nos tubes are horribly microphonic which you never get told about . If you sneeze you can hear a “tink” in some of them . |
Primal Luna is great as some others mentioned.
I love my McIntosh MA252. Though it’s technically a tube preamp with solid state amp. But you get the warm tube sound out of it. I have it paired with some B&W speakers. I know this setup may be more of a “mainstream” brand setup but it sounds damn good.
I stream via Bluesound Node 2i and it sounds great, doesn’t sound too “digital” at all. |
The Conrad Johnson CAV45 can be found used under 3k. Worth looking at if you like the sound of EL-34s. |
I would also recommend contacting John Rutan at audio connection. I recently purchased the newer Rogue Cronus Magnum III from him with KT77 tubes instead of the standard KT120. I prefer the sound of the KT77s which is warmer and has a beautiful midrange. I also installed NOS tubes in the preamp stage. Prior I owned the Primaluna Dialogue Premium with the same tubes but the Rogue has a better overall sound including more detail, larger soundstage and tighter bass.
Rogue is manufactured in Pa. and not in China. They have a small operation and their units are not massed produced. Their support is excellent and they will answer all your questions and concerns. |
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My speakers are rated at 86, and is for a small bedroom system, maybe 12x14 feet is size, and has appropriate room treatments. I would imagine anything 25 watts or above would be sufficient. I would go with something of at least 50 watt/Ch for headroom. I have speakers of the same sensitivity in a similar-sized room and the meters on my SS do occasionally surpass the 100 watt mark, and I don't often listen above 90db peaks. Yes, you can typically get away with less power with a tube amp but that's really only due to their soft-clipping characteristics, otherwise, watts are watts and additional headroom will result in a more relaxed, confident sound. I had the Cronus Magnum II for a while, it had some audible hum, but otherwise sounded nice with upgraded NOS tubes. I sold it though because I concluded I prefer my 50 watt/Ch Cayin A88T for its greater transparency and dimensionality. Cayin are not very well known but they're essentially the house-brand of the factory that makes Prima Luna. Their amps are built like tanks and have some of the finest point-to-point wiring you're going to find in this price class. Mine was built in 2006 and hasn't needed any servicing other than new power tubes. |
PrimaLuna would be my suggestion. I have their pre-amp driving 2 of their mono blocks. Very happy with sound, build quality and looks. |
Just bought the Octave V40 mentioned a few posts up (it was in the mail at that time). Replaced the power tubes with Gold Lion reissues. Figured I’d share my message to the seller:
”KT88s arrived a day early and have been in since lunch. WOW! Fantastic. All bias adjusters work fine. Really good sound. I’ve been working backwards from the source/streamer/DAC side of things and just pulled the trigger on the Dynaudio Special 40s. This amp is the last step. Think I’m good for awhile. Looking forward to some relaxing time with the music. Very pleased!”
I only have experience with a few amps but certainly can vouch for this one (in my room, Schitt Bifrost Multibit DAC, Airport Express streamer with Wyred 4 Sound Remedy Reclocker, Signal and Blue Jeans Cable). Glad to hear why I’m seeing Dynaudio and Octave together in a lot of photos online.
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A lot of good suggestions here..there is a nice used Ayon Spirit III gen IV for sale on Audiogon right now that would probably give you enough power in either pentode or triode mode depending on your preference
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My speakers are rated at 86, and is for a small bedroom system, maybe 12x14 feet is size, and has appropriate room treatments. I would imagine anything 25 watts or above would be sufficient. |
I would look at brands Line Magnetic, Primaluna, Rogue and the brand/model Elekit 300b. But as others state above your room size and power requirements play a significant role in matching too. |
@anotherbob You really need to specify the power output range you need. This will affect recommendations significantly. |
I have the PrimaLuna Dialogue HP Premium Integrated and I think it is wonderful. I started with the EL34 tubes and move to the KT150. You can find these PL Integrateds used for about $3k.
In this price range you have lots of options as others have pointed out. Happy experimentation and listening.
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I have owned the Raven Integrated Reflection MK2 tube amp. Dave Thomson is one of the owners. The customer service is second to none. His tubes are rare producing awesome music and he has a price point for every individual. You owe it to yourself to give Dave a call.
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Line Magnetic 805ia here and it’s awesome! Looking to roll some tubes soon.
Primaluna sounded great as well, but the Line Magnetic sounds a little warmer and more open..to me.
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Theres a used Octave V40se around for 2k. That would be my pick.
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Thanks sfar, I have been thinking of upgrading my Melody I880 amp which while still a very fine amp you never know until you look ... and after reading a bunch of reviews wow does Raven look good! It just leaped over Prima Luna to the top of the list, and that's even before factoring in Made in USA vs Made in China. Which yeah, counts for a lot.
Your description of immersive sound reinforces the reviewers deep and wide sound stage comments. Thanks! |
A used Line Magnetic LM-508IA or LM-518.
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