Are manufacturer AC cables good enough?

It's a pretty standard warranty they gave themselves enough wiggle room.

Why not read their warranty and give us your legal opinion?💋💋 

Yes they are good enough, but good enough is not enough for geeks and tweakers-the chosen ones.

I have aftermarket power cables on some gear, but not all. I honestly don't know if there is a sonic difference, but it helps me sleep better at night.

"subjected to proper testing at UL" LOL!!!

No for using one that hasn't been subjected to proper testing at UL. I see you still care sweetie. 😘

djones511,657 posts04-23-2020 3:38pmYeah well, I went to Ayre's website and plodded through their warranty. Particular buyers might consider doing the same before using an aftermarket cord that hasn't been UL tested. At least keep the original and lie about it if the need arises.

LOL!! This must be the most preposterous (I am trying to be nice) post I have seen in years in this hobby. Voiding the warranty for using a power cord other than the stock power cord?? LOL!!

Yeah well, I went to Ayre's website and plodded through their warranty. Particular buyers might consider doing the same before using an aftermarket cord that hasn't been UL tested. At least keep the original and lie about it if the need arises. 

Most manufacturers of high end gear expect that customers will want to choose a different power cord so their gear comes with stuff (a notable exception is NAIM).  On the plus side, the customer is not paying more for the gear coming with a better power cord that is still not up to the liking of the particular buyer.

Obviously there are lots of opinions about power cords, as well as about nearly every aspect of audio.  I found a few of the comments inane or illogical.  One thing I didn't mention that turned me off the AC3 and to a lesser extent the AC14 is the size and stiffness of the cable, a convenience not audio factor.  

IIRC, I bought the AC3 cables for the JC-1s.  I went from Parasound (JC 2 & JC 1) to Ayre (KX-5/20 & VX-5/20) when I added a DX-5 DSD disc player and QX-5/20 digital hub for Roon.

db

Ayre for many years had a line of Ayre branded premium cables manufactured by Cardas if my memory is correct.

Yes, the "Ayre" cables were sourced from Cardas. I think the speaker cables were essentially Golden Reference but in a different jacket. Looks like Ayre no longer offers these (judging by their website).

My thinking is that Ayre wouldn’t supply cables that are inadequate for their components.

Ayre would probably say that their OEM cable is "adequate" but add that you can get even better results with some aftermarket cables. I know they often show with Cardas, sometimes Audioquest (maybe others?). From their perspective, it isn’t sensible to include a $$$ power cord or IC with their components. For one thing, as was pointed out up-thread, they have no idea how long your cables need to be. Secondly, tastes and opinions of cables widely range. Some don’t think cables make any difference whatsoever while others insists on specific brands or technology. It would be tough to satisfy more than a minority of customers, and that's assuming the cable is even the proper length.

If the accountant picked the mains cable then the company would go with a very exotic audiophile cable they could produce for $10 use the pseudoscience gobbledygook talk of other high end cable " manufacturers " and give the wide eyed audiophile a bargain for a measly extra $500 with the purchase of a $10,000 amp. Of course it would be voiced especially for them 😉

I think the accountants pick the power cord not the engineers 

I keep telling you guys the manufacturers are always the last to know. That’s just the way it goes sometimes. 

I think I’ll trust the engineers over self proclaimed subjective experts. If a mains cable affects the sound of an  amp it's measurable if it isn't then whatever effect it does have couldn't be enough to make it audible.

Why? to make more money .

The problem with talking to manufacturers is that half of them are as inexperienced on this issue as the hobbyists. Ok, well, probably not half. However, it is a shockingly high percentage of them that operate from received wisdom and theory, and have not even done comparisons themselves. I learned I could not simply take a respected manufacturer's word on all matters. They have blind spots, too.  

Why would a manufacturer ever sell their equipment with a poor power cable or a power cable that makes their product sound poor?
No kool aid here.

Talk to Ayre, ask them does an aftermarket mains cable change the sound signature of their amps, if so why? If one is objectively better why not use it or advise the use of it? What wire do they use inside the amp? Have they tested different mains cables and noticed observable measured differences? If you want to use an aftermarket mains cable I would make sure it has the required safety label from UL or CE to know it’s been tested. For all the blathering about the inky black darks and improved soundstage let's see some evidence beyond testimony. 

A general rule to follow is the more audiophiles’ hair catches fire the greater the odds are that the tweak works.

Gosta: Your rule is simple indeed, but flawed. You base it on a debate from other people, AND, you give it a long time to develop. Why not “solve” it once and for all: try something for yourself. Unless you don’t trust your ears, that’s really the only way to know.

And what “clearly matters”? And why is it different than “a tweak”? More importantly, why do you think this “other people” never “invest” in “what clearly matters”? 

About once each year a skeptic is brave enough to try and figures it out. At that rate by the end of the world the debate will be resolved.  ;)

They’re good enough. My rule is simple. If there’ s a long debate about a tweak. Leave it. Invest in what clearly matters.

not saying a different result can be had. But different does not mean better.

No, different means different. Whenever two things are different one is of necessity better, the other worse. You admit there’s a difference. So what you’re really saying then is you don’t know which is which. You don’t know what you’re hearing. Otherwise you would know one is better than the other. But you don’t. You only know they’re different.

Glad we cleared that one up.

God help the poor audiophiles of yore that made do with very modest fare. Speaking of which, some of the highest resolution, most dynamic systems I have ever heard consisting of horns and compression drivers were running on basic copper wire.

some typical audiophile answers above.

In answer to the OPs open supposition; yes I believe a company like Ayre will voice their obsessively designed and wonderfully performing components to run exactly as intended on the power cords they provide. After all it is essentially the same wire as is found in their components.

not saying a different result can be had. But different does not mean better. It stands to reason the component is voiced with the cords they provided. Otherwise they would state clearly that performance of their components will be improved with an aftermarket powercord.

Millercarbon: for this usual types / characters, the debate was not sorted out in the 80s, because they were not born yet! You realize these naysayers are broke no-job know-it-all millennials writing from their mom’s basement, right?

And as for the “try it for yourself” thing, they have a solution for that. Something in the lines of “science”, and “I don’t have to go to North Pole to know it’s cold out there”. One guy told me something today about a throwing a virgin on a volcano to see if erupts 😂😂. I call this creative trolling 😂🙄

+1 Millercarbon. Every piece of wire matters as does every connector. This thread is like the 80's all over again.  
Right. That is how far back you have to go. That is how far behind the times some people are.

Synergistic Research came out with the Master Coupler more than 30 years ago. Even before then it was known there's a lot more to wire than the engineers were telling us. But the Master Coupler and some others were so clearly, obviously, undeniably better than ordinary wire that the whole debate was settled last millennium. 

For people today to still so out of it, it really is like going back in time to the 80's. The joke is they're the ones thinking they're all Mr Science. Clueless. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS0KyTZ3Ie4
Freebie rubber power cords good enough? As if!

most manufacturers seem extremely hesitant to discuss recommendations for cables and components they don't manufacture...why it's fun to see what they use at shows and in their own corporate listening rooms...

Ayre for many years had a line of Ayre branded premium cables manufactured by Cardas if my memory is correct.  They were not included in the sale of new equipment.  I use Audience AU24SEi power cables with my Ayre VX5/20 amp and QX5/20 DAC.

 the only way to be sure is to try it in your system.

In case anyone missed it the first time.

Contact Ayre and ask them directly. They respond very quickly and are happy to answer questions.

+1 dodgealum, same with my LTA UL, but as you stated, I think this has to do with the Berning design. Folks at LTA tell me they don’t hear differences and they demo on Daedalus and Spatial. However, on other amps I’ve owned and own, improvements abound. 

I have tried numerous power cables including AudioQuest, ESP, Shunyata and a few others on the Aesthetix Mimas integrated amplifier and none of them were any better than the stock power cord from Aesthetix. In fact, they all negatively impacted the sound.

On other components like the Ayre Codex, Ayre AX-7e and the Ayre EX-8 the AQ Hurricane offered a big improvement over the stock cord. The impact on the DAC was the most notable. I think the only way to be sure is to try it in your system.  Good Luck!

thyname,

"@glupson: I can easily tell what your favorite news Tv show, and (obscure) tv network is 😉"

You are beyond insightful.

No power cords at all is the bees knees! 🐝 I hopped off the grid four years ago and never looked back. 👀

Whipple Blower (supercharger) kits. My Chevy small block 350 V8 runs fine without one, but better with.

My experience aligns with Tante—the better the power supply design the less important the power cable. I found this out trying different cords with my LTA Ultralinear. It sounded just as awesome with the stock cord as several megabuck cords. David Berning began his work as a power supply designer and his are some of the best in the business.

bikerbw

I started thinking ...

Good idea!

... what other industry companies include required parts to make an item run and then turn around and blatantly tell you not to use them because they’re crap?

None. The audio industry doesn't do this, either. If you're aware of any manufacturer who suggests its power cords are crap, will you please cite a reference?

I started thinking - what other industry companies include required parts to make an item run and then turn around and blatantly tell you not to use them because they’re crap? Power cords have to be at least good enough so they don’t catch fire if you use them, so that sets the bar at a certain level. I’ve used my Klein Tools voltage tester on my Pangea cords and get no reading, but on the stock cords I do, so is that any indication of a better performing cord?  I don't know.  Here’s the kicker: my Power Plant itself gives a reading as well because of the vents, so does that make the cord "performance" a moot point?
A second point is, as a company selling high end equipment, would you sweat the details of creating a quality product and then include a power cord that would degrade the performance of your product?  No matter how much exotic companies want you to believe, you don't need expensive materials or pixie dust to make a well performing cord, so why would you chance a lot of returns or bad reviews because you cheaped out on the cord.

this thread is a good example of why it would make no sense to include a high quality power cord: everyone wants something different, and wants to choose their own cord, connectors, length, maybe build it themselves, and the non believers are happy with any included cord...

@millercarbon " Power cords are included as a courtesy, just like patch cords. You aren't meant to actually use them. They are meant to stay wrapped in the plastic bag in the box to be passed along with the owner's manual to the next guy."

Excellent! True. I got quite a laugh at that line.

it's often interesting to see what power cords equipment manufacturers use in their in-house listening rooms...

As long as you're willing to settle for, "good enough".............

The power cable included with your amp if perfectly adequate for your amp to work well.  High end amp manufacturers accept the market forces that dictate having detachable power cords.  From an engineering and cost perspective it is better to have a non-detachable power cord.  One less interface for those electrons to deal with and the connectors are usually the most expensive part of a power cord.  Additionally, many amp manufacturers simply don't buy into the power cord thing.  The might not say it publicly, but they think it's a non-issue.

appropriate for the job. After market can offer way better performance at a cost.

djones.... Clueless clump of cells, I absolutely love that ! Certainly wouldn’t Seek your opinion of cable risers,cards,pastes,speaker cables, pads, or any other Magic Band-Aid product out there. That was funny !

Cheers 

It is possible some makers include a quality power cord with their
products? Nelson Pass has explained in past interviews that
he uses his own supplied cords. Now I do not believe he uses
Walmart interconnects. Was he was messing with the interviewer
or did I misunderstand his response. Has anyone else viewed this
same video?

I've said this a few times on similar threads. The biggest single improvement that I've made to date, most bang for the buck, was an after-market power cord on my amp. Couldn't believe my ears.