ARE AUDIOPHILES OVERLY SENSITIVE BY NATURE?FEELINGS AND OPINIONS?
I have been an audiophile the last 20 years for the last 5 years I have worked with Infigo Audio as my industry affiliation. It’s been my experience in business and audio conversations that there are 2 areas that are interesting. When giving opinions many audiophiles try to come off smarter than the people they are talking to. Also in conflict resolution if you have disagreements they are more willing to go to extremes. Has anyone else experienced this. Some seem like they can tell you what to do? How to post etc. which to me is crazy. Most of us are 30, 40, 50, 60,70 plus. Thoughts everyone?
@fuzztone +1 Mike |
And you decide by yourself what is bullshit and what is not ... You are the big head judge of everything and for all here... may i laugh please ? If i resume in the simplest terms : 2 types of sapiens : Idiots and wise ... I guess with a so complex definitive classification that you put yourself in the wise drawer .,.. Do you catch how stupid is your self serving claim ?
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I can appreciate the OP frustration with many people which are most inclined to insult or take a paternalistic attitude instead of discussing rationally ... But it is better to not generalize ... my two cents ... It is better to adress and answer to each one person and not put all people in the same bag and then creating a thread about "audiophiles" and judging them all together .... I experienced the same problem as the OP experienced but i adressed each individuals poster and answered them...I never complained about this forum as such or about group of people ... We are all different ... my best to you ...
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Audio is extremely subjective....much more so than most areas of interest that people gravitate to. That naturally makes it tougher to agree on anything. Everyone is right in their own mind, and wrong in the eyes of most others....just ask an audiophile! Audio sure seems a bit less social on the internet...I’ve had many face to face discussions in person that always seem to go well. I do however think that audio tends to attract more obsessive types that are a bit more recluse than say bicycling or golf. I suppose the fact that it's more passive than some activities is a factor too. I used to spend a lot of time on woodworking sites. They all have their preferences, but it’s no where near as contested and controversial as audio forums seem to be. There was always a lot of enthusiasm and encouragement for new tool purchases, and new projects. It’s pretty easy to convince someone that a 3hp 500 pound saw that runs on 220v has advantages over a 35 lb portable that plugs into any wall socket, though both have their place....it’s far more objective and tangible. A similar discussion in audio ends up with hurt feelings because the performance is so subjective regardless of the tangibles like price and specs. |
You are comical as a cartoon... "faith"? What made you think that what i call my experiments are mere "faith" and your opinion "fact" ? By the way "tweaks" are disparate useless or useful tricks ... Embeddings controls in the mechanical,electrical,and acoustical working dimensions are not mere tweaks but a method about how to systematically adress the three working dimensions of any system at any price ... But i doubt your brain power can differentiate the two ... Attacking people with the "tin foil hat" for anything located outside your blinders angle of vision is children idiotic play... Myself i believe in acoustics by the way as the main road then refrain of accusing me to be a "born again" because it suit your own childish beliefs about audio whatever they could be ... Audio is about studying and experimenting ... Then if i propose a simple experiment and if instead of doing it you accuse me of being a fool , who do you think is the faithful uncritical believer ? And here in this forum who is simpleton enough to class all people in "wise" and idiots "believers" and who decide to classify them from his own self serving starting belief point ? The best upgrade for you in audio will be a mirror purchase .... 😁
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I see it this way: (a) people have first hand experience with perceptible differences in quality and (b) people have first hand experience spending money. Because of (a) and (b): (c) people believe they have the "right" to opine on an inordinately complicated field (psychoacoustics) Of course, the space opened up between opinion and knowledge creates room for a lot of BS, marketing speak, and self-righteous blather results. And now everyone wants to be an "influencer." Is this more true in audio than in other fields? Probably -- because of (c). Most of us are not trying to shoot from the hip about oncology or particle physics. But perhaps wine and car and fishing hobbyists might disagree. They would probably testify to their own tribe as being especially sensitive.
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I beg to differ about simple basic fact in psycho-acoustic which are easy to find reading and easy to experiment with ... For example i decreased substantially crosstalk between speakers on my desk using simple mechanical wood separation when listening music ... It is not a proposed solution for all but i spoke about it for discovering by ourself by experiment important fact about stereo speakers listenings ... Nothing esoteric here ... Simple basic psycho-acoustic fact adressing stereo impeding unrecognized by most crosstalk... The same is true about Helmholtz resonators and speakers relation ... The same is true about any basic concept as immersiveness or listener envelopment who are defined in acoustic and with which anyone can experiment for fun and learning ... It is more satisfying than most useless upgrade purchase blind by hype ... Acoustics is the basic of audio not the gear specs so important it is nor the price tag ... Then i dont use any "right" when i explain simple basic by proposing simple experiments ...😁😊 I answered because i am the rare one here saying that psycho-acoustic must be studied a bit by audiophiles more than upgrade product reviews and acoustic is more than room acoustic panels ... Audio is way more complex and im-plicate multidisciplinary field than other hobby, hence there is controversies ... I discovered the hard way that people who are hard objectivist and price tag branded name subjectivist are dead wrong ...They focus on the subjective or objective aspect of the gear ... They neglect the psycho-acoustics and physical acoustic and the other two embeddings control as secondary to gear purchase or upgrades ... This is market consumers programming ... I prefer reading basic acoustic and making experiment ... I did well being in heaven with a minimal level of acoustic satisfaction at low cost ... I come here for friends and serious discussion not to buy products or discussing upgrades ...It is why i spoke too much ... 😊 You are more self controlled ... And i love your posts by the way .... my best to you...
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You make a good point. I guess what I wanted to say is that many audiophiles offer opinions which would only be justified without any basic psychoacoustics. You're right that some basics are not that hard to pick up, and experiment with, but many people don't even do that and many more venture out beyond the simple understandings and claim things which really requires deeper knowledge. |
You are right hilde45... But it is easier for most people to argue at the infinite about cables differences or tube versus digital ... The only demand here is to PURCHASE something ... I was totally frustrated myself with any piece of gear BEFORE i enter in simple basic reading about acoustic and then i begin to experiment ... it is the reason why i am happy with a low cost modified speakers... I cannot recommend them as a solution as most does with their magical component because i disliked them before learning how to optimize them ...This is basic acoustic , basic electrical noise ratio signal optimization and vibration resonance control ... it is the reason why even if i like my components i never recommend them as a solution; i recommend studying acoustics ... People are lazy ... Or dont have the time to do it...I am retired ... My very best to you ...
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@mahgister i Agree with you. I like to continue to learn in this hobby of ours. I also try to remain pleasant when discussing audio. But I’m aware that I’m surrounded by folks that have been in the hobby 20,30, 40, 50 years. I try to talk to them understanding that. You can’t be dismissive and disrespectful to folks in certain ways. Some of our guys act like they are OZ! |
We participate in a hobby where people have different experiences. Acoustically and equipment wise. Some of us are completely closed minded to cables making a difference. Some think that certain prices are a waste no matter how good the equipment is. The thing that really interests me is that the level of expertise people THINK THEY HAVE! In addition to that they think that that allows them to speak in ways to other audiophiles that are justified in their minds. There is no certifications Or authentication processes that we go through. I have no problem with one’s opinions. Just the way the deliver it! |
I am very satisfied in the hobby, my system and sound. What bugs me are the manic street preachers and most of them are measurements crowd. Experience in application is worth more to me than a specification sheet, not demeaning a spec sheet it is all part of the process but it is not the process. Your opinion is exactly that, it is not fact. Also could do with a little less wokeness around here. |
Thanks for your post ... These three points are the only things i said and insisted upon because it is the only factors that had a great impact on my acoustic experience satisfaction, way more than the upgrades i tried which were anyway near the same cost window ... ... They apply to any system at any price but it is way more evident with low cost system... Why ? Nobody with a 50,000 bucks speakers will add straws in his porthole as i did with my low cost speakers ...😁 Because the difference between the optimal working level and the actual working level are not on the same ratio at all with low cost speakers and high -end one ...The designer of high end speakers had adressed some problems already in his design cost and planification in a way the low cost speakers designer could not ... But this economic factor and design factor dont change the basic fact about the necessary embeddings controls implementation in the two case but it must be done in a way appropriate for each design characteristics ...It is not all speakers luckily for all which will need straws in their porthole to reach their optimal level as with this low cost speakers i own ... 😵 And i never said that upgrading is useless i said it is often meaningless and a waste of money if we dont learn first to optimize what we already have ... Upgrading must be done AFTER we had learn why and how and with what ... My very best to you ... 😊
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@roxy54 very well, all the best. |
If anyone is interested, jacobsdad2000 is the former jeffrey125, recklesskelly, jerryg123, earlflynn, juanmanuelfangioi, skypunk, etc. etc. etc. All banned. Personally, I give him less than a month. So, you can add rude, immature, nasty and predictable to the list of certain audiophile's attributes. |
@jacobsdad2000 i 100% agree with you. I’m not a measurements freak. You can have great measurements and a system that sounds like crap.I have people telling me that it must measure this and that. Then I have people telling me I’m not hearing differences that I hear that it’s just confirmation bias. Whatever! |
@roxy54 yup I’m overly sensitive about folks telling other folks what they are hearing and not hearing. That people who spend a lot of money on gear are idiots that know nothing about audio. That it has to measure this and that. That I can’t post in CAPS! That I have to put industry affiliations down when I’m not even discussing the gear or the brand. That the only people who know audio are the guys that are telling others in the end that they are a bunch of suckers. Yup I’m overly sensitive to that. |
@roxy54 actually I do it to make the point. We do things that others don’t agree with and that’s ok |
@roxy54 i can understand your point. It’s fine. I get it. |
If you see posters here, fighting back and forth, it would be easy to assume they are overly sensitive and, as such, helping to answer your question that audiophiles are indeed overly sensitive. But actually they are more like childish kids, who don’t care to just answer simple questions. They don’t mind disrupting a forum with rude and mindless blabbering. |
I avoid my closest dealer because a guy there is pompous and speaks like he knows more than everyone else in the room. Went in a few weeks back after avoiding for years and a nice young guy was there. Be helpful and open and the hobby will flourish. As a younger guy there is nothing worse than an old egomaniac who is out of touch. Be cool everybody. |
Dunning-Kruger effectThe Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people with limited competence in a particular domain overestimate their abilities. Just sayin'. Regards, barts |
@mahgister +1 |
