ARE AUDIOPHILES OVERLY SENSITIVE BY NATURE?FEELINGS AND OPINIONS?
I have been an audiophile the last 20 years for the last 5 years I have worked with Infigo Audio as my industry affiliation. It’s been my experience in business and audio conversations that there are 2 areas that are interesting. When giving opinions many audiophiles try to come off smarter than the people they are talking to. Also in conflict resolution if you have disagreements they are more willing to go to extremes. Has anyone else experienced this. Some seem like they can tell you what to do? How to post etc. which to me is crazy. Most of us are 30, 40, 50, 60,70 plus. Thoughts everyone?
I too own the Perspectives and had them upgraded to the graphene.
For me it was a great disappointment. I couldn't discern
an increase in SQ that was worth the cost. Most disappointing. I'm
a big believer in what good cables can add to one's system. Power cable
upgrades cannot be underestimated. There is no lack of discussion about cables.
I have made countless cable changes over the years.
Many have been game changing and jaw dropping at different price levels. I now have a full loom of the highest end Townshend cables. These will be my forever cables. I highly recommend Cutious Technologies
cable as well. There are so many great ones. Mad Scientist as well.
Many companies offer a generous audition/ return period. Cables, cables, cabes.
@j-walli try not to be that way with people. I’m open. I let people borrow and try things because I want them to be happy in the end. This hobby is supposed to be fun and stress relieving. Happy
You don't have to look far,- Ferrari owners, Ducati riders (except for me, of course), Omega watch wearers, PhD holders who insist on "Doctor" as part of their name, Ford vs Chevy guys, sports team fans..... There's no escape
Anyone who had no way to figure out by themselves the way to create acoustic immersiveness in a room with any speakers at any price will stay frustrated or in a sub-optimal state of satisfaction ..
Simple truth, hard truth i learned ...
Then people begin by ignorance to be over sensitive about their gear choices and uncertain about the real limits of their system and the value of their experience ..
We all tend to take sides in everything. It's the inherent tribalism of the human animal, and then we have our ego. We think that we right because, well, we try to be. As it should be. The tough thing is admitting being wrong. Hurts our ego.
Calvinj our audio hobby is good especially if you have audiobuddy who can join you in this journey? Many times what complicate this hobby , is because we have different level of experience like, listening skills, sound preference, different systems, rooms , budget. I just found this out lately. So now Iam more at peace why there is such disagreements.
OP when I invite audiophile to listen to my system, No one disagree with me ? Why Because I kept my moth shut and just enjoy the music and their presence.
Some in the hobby I perceive are professionals and work in offices/vocations where they are not exposed to working men. It makes a big difference, in my opinion.
If someone is used to environments where they can say anything they want and pitch fits like children without getting slapped or beaten, it can give you a false sense of safety/security. I’ve always worked in the construction trades and have a firm grasp on my mouth. Being in the military and playing sports helped too.
Ironically, most tough talk is a cheap substitute for masculinity, as I’ve never feared being talked to death… but have tried to avoid as many beatings as possible. A beating hurts and is embarrassing, doesn’t take many!
@jayctoymy audio buddy passed 5 years ago. It’s been rough. Went on this journey together. He had been in more years than I had. That’s why I try to to argue or be nasty. Life is too short.
@uncledempthat part all day. Recently had an issue. Your response is exactly what I’m talking about. Guy threw a MINE MINE MINE FIT! Lol. Can’t talk crazy to people and disparage their integrity. Thumb Thugging!
There are often a few layers that drive dissension. Most would agree that we each have unique :
Hearing abilities
audio chains
power quality
ambient noise floors
room conditions
Therefore our perceptions are different
However a few live by:
A emotional resentment to the perceived unaffordability of high-end audio components. This emotional resentment closes minds, resists opposing views, stubbornness to consider other viewpoints.
It’s wrong until proven right. This is often from a fear of being wrong, and therefore resist from even trying - overly cautious. They want to understand or more precisely get a “guarantee” that it works before trying. High-end audio is usually best when one simply tries difficult combos to see what resonates with their subjective tastes/preferences.
Measurement audiophiles - likely/mostly related to #1 resentment. Items that cannot be easily defined by measurements (cables, fuses, audiophile network switches) is their hot button. They cannot accept the higher price over regular components without some concrete justification, but manufacturers won’t reveal their R@D results and conclusions for business reasons.
My reasoning is universal truth
My perceptions are universal truth. This is false
My belief about high-end audio:
if many say this is true, chances are if I try it in my own system I’ll “probably” get the same result. But nothing is guaranteed
Sonics are more important than measurements. Measurements alone do not tell if one subjectively likes the sonics vs other choices. Best to listen for yourself
Different sonic presentations are valid- it’s a matter of preferences rather than superiority/inferiority. Some may like a 300b midrange magic, others want end-to-end linearity. Some like nearfield listening, others room filling.
"Sonics are more important than measurements. Measurements alone do not tell if one subjectively likes the sonics vs other choices. Best to listen for yourself " I agree with this. In another recent thread, I had a disagreement with member @stagerwho happens to make and sell silver interconnects. I asked what the RCA's were made of and he said brass. I said that it would sound better if they were copper, and he tried to support his position with numbers showing the small difference between the two metals. Those numbers are true I'm sure, but I still know from experience as a listener that they sound different.
@roxy54man I try to tell people all the time. Let your ears be the judge. Some things measure great and sound like crap. I was the ear for our Infigo cable line. Made changes. Did most stuff by ear.
My left brain is an audiophile, he is obsessed by details and dont perceive the whole; my right brain dont bother because music carry it very far away and he fly over any sound details ....
I am not neither my right or left brain ; i am a conscious being and i am free to be who i chose to be each moment , there is always two ways to be a fool and only one way to be wise ... We must discover how for ourself ...
It is why acoustics science basic and experiment are so useful for us , there is a right brain side in acoustic experiment related to "sound" and a left brain side related to "music" , we must learn how to listen with experiments and learn how to balance these two sides of the cosmos ...
I wonder if typically naysayers have lack of exposure to very transparent high-end sonics for comparison, therefore in their experience they don’t discern the differences. Usually very transparent audio chains are somewhat costly, and my impression seems like most naysayers do not have transparent enough gear to hear the differences.
In my audio journey I made the effort to hear the very best at audio stores and audio shows, then choose the sound I wanted within my budget. This is how I was exposed to transparent components.
I was exposed to transparency in audio by learning how to create it myself at low cost in my room coupling to my satisfaction ..
Is there better ? yes this is an evidence, there is always better design to work with ...
naysayers will say that my system is low fi because they believe only in price tag , i believe my ears and i use acoustics with the design i can afford and it is enough to be immerse in music with no apparent lack ...
it is important for me to claim this fact because disparaging this is inviting people to throw money on a race without inviting them to study basic acoustics BEFORE upgrading ( not room panel sellers publicity ) ...
You are a gem on this forum. Your generous support of others in this hobby is commendable and heartwarming. Thanks for your insights.
True, one does not have to spend significant $ to get transparency, but knowing what to get is from years of your direct experience. Most others are not as knowledgeable and/or experienced so have to rely on reviews which are slanted towards the latest gear.
You are a gem on this forum. Your generous support of others in this hobby is commendable and heartwarming. Thanks for your insights.
True, one does not have to spend significant $ to get transparency, but knowing what to get is from years of your direct experience. Most others are not as knowledgeable and/or experienced so have to rely on reviews which are slanted towards the latest gear.
@kennyci was able to have access to the best equipment because I worked with a guy that was in the industry. He would take things on trade and I would have 60-90 day demos if equipment that back then I couldn’t afford. It was an eye opener. I had the Veloce ls1 in my home for 90 days on my Vienna acoustics and the transparency and soundstage was stunning and musical. From there I got more demos and stuff got better and better. A later could afford more high end and now I can buy what I want. Yes I work with Infigo Audio but I git it because it sounds amazing to me. It had the qualities of the best stuff I heard. Access to high end equipment or at least hearing it is very important in the journey.
@uncledempI agree with your theory 100%. The man boys that come at folks in most cases for no reason other than offering an opinion or choice of purchase with nasty,snarky remarks would never do that to another mans face. I can only deduce these are "males" that have found a safe place to pound their chest without the possible consequence in a face to face setting. I've worked around other MEN all my life and I've seen the real world outcomes of someone disrespecting other men. I think at its core you are spot on and glad someone finally said it and I have been on the same page for a long time.
I agree with a great many posts here. I will add that this is a male dominated hobby, and one with a strong subjective streak. While most people in it are thoughtful and tolerably civil, the fact that audio is male dominated leads to the Alpha continually wanting to come out. It can be an expensive hobby, and the alpha traits that led to success in the material world can be further accentuated.
On the Internet, lack of in person contact loosens the tendency to be aggressive. If a group of alpha males were in a pub together having the same debate, someone with a sneering attitude might find themselves missing a few teeth.
@balooo2@mahler123thats why I’m careful. I’m old school. I don’t talk to men a certain way or disrespect their character because the era I’m from you will get Batman sound effects POW! for doing that. It’s been my experience that people that do that are privileged brats who won’t say stuff like that to a real man to his face. I try not to deal with them because if they don’t understand that then we ain’t gonna work. Then on top of that it’s audio. To disrespect someone in the audio realm like this. You are a special one! I grew up in a place where you just didn’t do that. I seen a guy get knocked out in a barber chair for slick talking. Some of these guys are thumb thugging at an all time high!
When I was a teenager, I smarted off to a guy at a stoplight. He put his car in park, walked over and slapped me. Slapped the words right out of my mouth and taught me a lesson. Today I’m sure the guy would be in jail because he slapped someone’s precious baby.
My mother used to warn me about people in my hometown by saying, ‘be careful, he will hurt you’, and I left them alone, haha.
Another sign of danger would be an axe handle in a rifle rack visible through the back window of a pickup. Guns were for hunting, an axe handle sent another message. School was uphill both ways, too!
I am used to speak with students with brain ... In my last 35 five years job ...
I never encountered mafia, agressive culturists, or just alpha dudes with balls and no brain ...
I spoke my mind in life but not with killers and not with persons with no interests in ideas ...
Audio is about brain experimenting with acoustic ... Not about muscled bodies waiting to slap you because you are right and price tag dont define good sound ... But the working ears do ... ...
Just my 2 cents ....
I encountered only one time a real gangster and we became friends but he was young and he was discovering at 22 years old why he was a biker ( affiliated to a club) and why it was a dead end ... His I.Q. was so high that i felt a bit impressed by his Jung analysis, i was myself 25 ... He had already killed people ( he never said so for sure but i guess that seeing some of his friends bikers ) and he was about to, if not changing his life , at least going back on another parallele road alone... Discussing with him was more than interesting ... Ideas had body with him and were not disincarnated abstractions , I was 25 years old , it was the books interests that make us meet ... He never punch me by the way even in heavy discussion , he was very secure and fear nothing especially not me for sure even if i was older and bigger ...i was i guess the only one able to speak with him about Jung and other not well known writers...
😁😊
All that to say that people here feeling offended by any discussion are not alpha male at all ...And lack brain too ...
Discussing is interesting if we are of good faith and passionnate about a subject as audio is ...
I was so passionnate by audio i read books and articles, experimented and now i know how to embed any system but it will take 6 months at least to me full time for any system...
Some feel offended because i respected knowledgeable people here but i am not so much impressed by high end components and price tag bragging .... Acoustics science impress me ... But to judge a system we must be there listening ...
@mahgister@uncledemp man I understand that 100%. I had a rough upbringing that I won’t go into detail about. I survived it and became a lawyer. But I don’t talk crazy to,folks under any circumstances. I don’t tolerate it either. Once people do that I’m out on them cause I know how I am. Homey Don’t play dat! Had somebody thumb thugging over nothing I cut them loose!
We grew up in different worlds, likely I can’t relate to yours, and you not mine. But I respect your opinion and viewpoint. You seem like a well-read, peaceful person. Also, I agree with some of Jung’s thoughts, although my understanding is topical.
We grew up in different worlds, likely I can’t relate to yours, and you not mine. But I respect your opinion and viewpoint. You seem like a well-read, peaceful person. Also, I agree with some of Jung’s thoughts, although my understanding is topical.
@ticatThats because we are real men telling it like it is, there is nothing subjective about simply being respectful of others. Additionally the offenders (many are serial posters/commenters) may recognize themselves and have nothing to bring to the conversation.We all have our strengths and weaknesses. The person some may disagree with is the person you have been waiting for 2 weeks to fix your plumbing or rewire your house,repair sheetrock and yes do legal work for you. Just becuase someone does not have the depth of knowlegde some here do regarding audio does not mean they are an idiot or deserving or snarky pithy remarks.We are simply trying to participate in the hobby we all enjoy. Why be here in the first place? Unfortunately there are those who don't understand that or simply lost sight of the true purpose of forums like this; in my book it is to share not tear down others.
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