When I say reference I don’t mean Pass amps with some lower end Wilson speakers. Just because you have a good sound doesn’t mean necessarily that it is a reference sound. There are preferences and subjective elements and there is also objectivity. Who has top or near top level Boulder, Gryphon or D’Agostino amplification? That’s reference level SS amplification. And lets put them against same level Lamm VAC and CAT. Why would you go with those SSs instead of tubes, practical considerations aside ? They would never give you the midrange that those valve amplifiers would.
5 years ago i bought a set of Lamm ML3 mono blocks, and a friend loaned me a set of VAC Statement 450 mono blocks to compare to my darTZeel 458 solid state mono blocks in my system. i had these three sets of top level amplifiers together in my system for 4 months.
it’s 1433 posts long talking about this compare. short answer, i preferred and kept the darTZeel solid state, and then upgraded the 458’s to the 468’s.
solid state ruled the day.
i will also add that IMHO Boulder, Gryphon, D’Agustino would not likely have made the cut. those more mainstream solid state brands are not musical enough. the darTZeel result does not necessarily extend to other expensive solid state. advertising and presence in brick and mortar showrooms should not be required from a brand. darTZeel goes it’s own way. sounds like music, not tubes and not solid state.
do i have a reference level system? fair question. my opinion is that if anyone has one, i have one. but that is for others to say.
A Reference or of the highest standards ,many of us cannot afford.
you build your Reference Audio system as to the highest your budget will allow .
the speakers by far are usually the most expensive , I see the front end Dac on par as importance for this s where all music starts and it’s signal purity,
once compromised it cannot be made up for down stream ,,
andyes all cables especially digital can make a big difference in resolution .
you need 2 Quality Ethernet cables as well as usb , then a Quality Ethernet hub with a LPS power supply ,also your router very important if streaming
linear Tube Technologies excellent LPS for $700 betters anything even at $1k and up to 8 amp, this LPS can be ordered up to 19-20 volts 8 amps and needed on the router ,all new ones are normally 12v around 4 amp, same with power cords , and system cables look for connectors Copper ,NotBrass ,3x better conductor Thst much less resistance sounds much better.
(A) There are preferences and subjective elements and there is also objectivity
(B) Why would you go with those SSs instead of tubes, practical considerations aside ? They would never give you the midrange that those valve amplifiers would?
I'm not sure whats being argued here in (A) with the reference to objectivity. The fallacious argument from authority statement in (B) appears to be implying that this completely subjective statement is objective. But perhaps I'm misinterpreting.
Anyway, the term reference in a hi fi context is meaningless. It would appear from the post above that the OP sees "reference" as the best available. If that is the case then there are legions of solid state amplifiers which qualify including Pass XS, MBL, Constellation etc, etc. The "why would anyone go with those SSs instead of tubes? conjures up the old Monty Python "what have the Romans ever done for us?" sketch - power output, dynamic range, S/N level, damping factor - and consistency where the sound doesn't change when you replace the output devices, are a few things that come to mind.
Tony, I appreciate your affection, you follow me everywhere.
When I say reference I don't mean Pass amps with some lower end Wilson speakers. Just because you have a good sound doesn't mean necessarily that it is a reference sound. There are preferences and subjective elements and there is also objectivity. Who has top or near top level Boulder, Gryphon or D'Agostino amplification? That's reference level SS amplification. And lets put them against same level Lamm VAC and CAT. Why would you go with those SSs instead of tubes, practical considerations aside ? They would never give you the midrange that those valve amplifiers would.
@barts…”But I honestly don’t understand why you rejoice in hearing the violinist foot tapping in the third row.”
Perhaps you were lucky and quick and “got” the essence of music quickly. But, I am pretty sure for the majority of audiophiles early experiences with music influenced them. For me, mostly in the ‘70s. Really moved by the beat and rhythm and terrible sonic reproduction. Desiring kick drums to have greater impact… then being really impressed by being able to actually hear the lyrics of songs we knew for many years. Then to distinguish each of the Beatles voices.
Decade by decade one becomes glued to what more can one hear with the next upgrade… slowly loosing track of the real musical essence.
I listen to other’s high end system’s, and what dealers present. I was not alone. I am highly analytical… this is an easy route to take… and many have. I have heard so many detailed scraping systems that I find it hard to believe.
If my posts are redundant… well, I am just reacting to the questions… so. I guess I must be consistent.
I've read your posts with interest, although they can be repetitive. But I honestly don't understand why you rejoice in hearing the violinist foot tapping in the third row.
Listening for that type of minutia is anathema to the enjoyment and glory of well reproduced music in your own environment.
Of course, that's just my silly opinion. Hope you have a Happy Thanksgiving.
Most people put their prefered fetish over synergy, acoustics, electrical and mechanical controls of the system and even over the evident trade-off implied by each design specifics be it tube or S.S. ...Or class D or hybrid etc ...
Acoustics science ignorance, and engineering trade -off complexities choices ignorance goes hand in hand with one prefered fetischism advocacy for all ...
I have all three, SS, Tube and Hybrid, I always win.
Now what is wrong with this post? Pretty innocuous, who was offended by this enough to have my earlier post deleted? Some woke stuff bouncing around it’s head. .
@audioman58Could care less about sales figures, was stating the fact they make tube amplification. Knowing how Japanese and after doing business with the Japanese for 40 years, they sell more than you think. If it doesn’t sell they would get out of the business of making tube amplification.
@lordrootman guessing you do not get to a lot of audio shows. Or read many of the e zines. Tube amplification will out live you or I bro.
Hello inna! My SS amp drives the Linkwitz 521 (now being advertised in the "slick" magazines) with a fabuous amp from Starke Sound and the sound is fabulous. The new generation of SS amps is easily as transparent, etc. as tube amps, and is much more efficient, running cooler so its parts don't age as rapidly. Yes, I DO HAVE A 300B anp which I love but it's in the demo/lab system driving very efficient speakers. Enjoy the music; the gear is just a means to an end.
Pass Labs XP-20 preamplifier, Pass Labs X250.8 amplifier and Pass Labs XP15 phono stage. Yeah, all solid state. I had owned Conrad Johnson tube gear for a while. Pass Labs made me forget about tubes.
I have three reference systems, none of them are tubes. When other audiophiles come over, they always take pictures and tell me they will report me to the hifi police
You have not been around long , at least 65% of amplifiers are SS
not tube . I owned a Audiostore for a decade, the progression of SS over the last 15 years SS Mosfets ,or bipolar transistors have many vacuum tube attributes in smoothness ,there are many more SS amps then tubes , plus some speakers need high current high SS is to move panels or drivers ,Vacuum tube voltage driven .
look at Vitus Gryphon, Pass labs, Boulder , Ayre, Bryston Krell ,MBL
Luxman,Accuphase Goldman just to name a few and many are Very $$.
@innaThe more of your posts I read, the more ignorant you seem to be. IME, tubes and SS each have their " characteristics ", very specific to each listener. For what I want to hear, Class A, ss, does it for me. Tubes, no longer, and, for a very long time now. There is no right or wrong with our music listening passion. It is very individualistic, and as far as I am concerned, should be whatever floats your boat. My best, Always....MrD.
i would say evaluating the level of a long term audiogon poster / lurker / past poster by reading what they have in the system and have to say is a fools errand…. i typically hear 2-4 different systems a month…
Get out more…..
BTW my reference amp is a hybrid with a VERY unfair advantage… it was purpose built by the speaker designer….
If we want to be drunk or acoustically transported we are not in the obligation to impose our own alcool ingestion method or our own tubes or S.S. system ... All is good for each different metabolism and all may be good for each own system synergy and acoustic room ...
To be drunk, i prefer champagne to everything else or whisky over beer ...
In audio acoustics rules not so much the gear choices , if the gear choices for sure is very good to begin with ...
I am drunk with cheap beer by the way and i live happy with a low cost system acoustically well implemented ...
I dont feel frustrated because frustration cannot be there when knowledge rule and drive instead of obsession ...
Feel free to mail me a box of champagne bottles ...😊 Instead of a tube amplifier pay me the BACCH filters box system ...And i will call it my reference system drinking to your health best wishes ...Promise...Cross on my heart ....
If not, i will stay happy with my beer and low cost system ...Creativity make us happy not money ...
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