Sell everything ASAP pocket the cash latter for this dude.MOVE ON!!
A Record Collection/Moral Conundrum - What Would You Do?
Folks,
I’ve been rolling around an issue and I’m simply curious what others would do in my place.
Here’s the situation:
I had an long time great friend and audiophile buddy who I’ll call "John." Around 2009 or so John wanted to open a restaurant. I lent him some money. You already know how this story goes and why we aren’t friends anymore.
But to add some detail, he asked for a heap of money because he was in a fix - said he was expecting a bunch of money (from the government as I remember - showed me some papers about it) but it was going to show up a bit too late, so could I lend him the money just for about a month then he’d pay me back. I explained I was just starting a renovation of a room in my house turning it in to my long-dreamed of home theater, which I’d saved for, and that it would come out of my own savings for that project. I was very hesitant, he begged, promised it was only for a few weeks. I said I could lend him 1/2 of what he was asking (otherwise I couldn’t even pay for the contractors coming).
One of those situations where long time, very good friend who I knew was a good person, who was only ever honest with me, needed help. So I stepped in. That’s always how it goes, right? Yes, I learned the hard lesson about lending money.
Needless to say the money didn’t show up the next month. Or the next. Or the next. Whenever I asked it was another story on how the restaurant was sucking every spare dollar, he’d pay me as soon as he could. Of course the restaurant quickly went under. I was like "I need that money, I have contractors to pay" and he just said he didn’t have any to give. Next he told me he was selling his house, downsizing, and he’d use the funds to pay off his debts including to me. Ok. What else was I going to do?
He asked if he could store his much beloved record collection at my place while he sold his house. Ok. Several boxes full of nice records took up (some valuable) real estate in my basement.
Basically I never heard from him again. Heard he sold his house, but that was it. Other friends have been in occasional contact. I’d been hoping that with his records here maybe he’d show up one day. Of course not.
So...now...11 years later!...I need some money. And I’m cleaning out the basement, wanting those records out of there.
I could sell the records and at least make some money.
The question for the audience is: Do you do it?
The case for selling them seems relatively obvious. He stiffed me for many thousands of dollars that he never paid back. Had me store the records forever while he went AWOL. Clearly has zero intention of ever picking them up.Every arrow points towards "They Are Mine Now."
Except...I have a conscience. He never formally gave them to me.
So, would you try to track "John" down to ask if he wants his records back (and explain otherwise I’m going to sell them)?
Or would you just go ahead, assume ownership (and payback) and sell them?
Floor is yours.
124 responses Add your response
The moral issue seems clear, so I'll deal with the practicalities. What are the consequences if you dispose of the records? He asks for them back or damages, i.e. the value of his loss. You counterclaim for your loans. If you want to protect your position, write to him at the most recent address you have - get proof of posting. Document the loans, terms etc and the records. Give him a reasonable time to reply, to repay and deal with the records, or you will dispose of them and put the proceeds against his debt. You may want to get 2 prices from record shops if they have a material value. |
no good deed goes unpunished...having said that, are you interested in purchasing a bridge...great location in Brooklyn? Seriously, by now you have already kicked yourself enough. Let it go...forget contacting this deadbeat, and either enjoy the music or sell what you don't want. Don't give him another thought...life is too short. |
do whatever the heck you want w them. cheery pick good stuff, then just bring a handful at a time to your local shop when you go looking for something new “or used”, and trade them in. Small lots, for a new record or two. Or, pay them forward to someone who would appreciate them who is just getting started. Sell them as a lot on Kijiji. Or, get a discogs account and list them one by one. How many are you talking about? |
I didn't notice anyone recommending disposal of the LPs as trash or gifting them, but perhaps I have not read the whole thread. In the US, it could work out OK to donate them to a charitable organization and take a tax deduction. I have no idea of the tax laws in Russia. Sure, the OP could go through the collection and keep for himself anything he likes. So far, after X years of storage on his property, it does not appear he has done that. Anything he does now is justified and better from his point of view than what went before. By the way, although I have not discussed the issue with my wife, I plan to suggest to her that she should sell my LPs to a bulk buyer, likely to be a dealer. Or donate them to a charity. She won't need the money, and I cannot imagine her or our sons selling them piecemeal. |
It’s weird that most people in this thread advised the OP to get rid of the record collection without even knowing what’s in this record collection ! Sell for nothing or even donate - the worst advice, most likely people are into digital, otherwise they could imagine their own record collection instead. Terrible! “You die, We buy” - this is what the record dealers are waiting for, especially when your beloved wife sells your expensive records for nothing in bulk, because you never tell her how much you paid for rare vinyl :) |
You are probably dealing with a sociopath. I would bet you are not the only person to whom he owes money. Your handwringing is unnecessary. He abandoned his LP collection. If he comes looking for it at some later date, you can say you sold it to recoup costs of your storage. He has no legs to stand on, if he doesn’t like your logic. |
As others have said, rid yourself of them. Having said that you are looking at parting out a record collection. Possible more of a PITA than actually parting out a car, and possibly more work… just less grease. Anyway, how many records are we talking here! 20? 500? That will make a big difference. The vinyl that got wet is probably fine, unless the sleeves got wet and dried (stuck) to the vinyl. The sleeves will be ruined for the most part in terms of value. With so many different versions, pressings, sources etc of albums these days it would be an arduous task to go through them to find if there are any gems. Even if there were, no chance you are going to recoup much. Might be better to just dump the lot and be done with it, not going to get much, but they are out of the basement and out of your hair. Good luck. Humans suck sometimes. |
Since you're not concerned about extracting financial remuneration, how bout donating them to some charity? Conscious relieved as your not profiting, using proceeds for good cause seems like win win to me. My perception, based on both conscious and legal counts, is his donation comes from abandoned property. |
I, and I am sure the more than 50 other persons who have advised you that you have zero "moral" obligation to the owner of the LPs, certainly hope you immediately removed the LPs from the wet storage box or boxes, and then removed LPs from the sleeves, so they could dry out quickly and properly. Album covers can dry separately, and you should spend a few bucks on new inner sleeves, one for each wetted LP. If not, you are shooting yourself in the foot, so far as your capacity to derive some financial compensation for having been stiffed. |
Oh if I'm selling them I'll definitely go through them first. But also as fate would have it, we recently had a small flood in the basement area where they were stored. The front part of the box containing some of the records was soaked. I haven't dared look at the possible damage to the records yet. (I listen to all kinds of music on LPs - jazz, soundtracks, electronica, funk, disco, prog rock, rock, fusion, folk, pop, classical, Library Music - you name it. But I'm very particular about what I want to own. I don't generally keep around an album that only as one or a couple songs I would listen to. I can pull out just about any of my albums and want to listen through the whole thing). |
If you are into vinyl then you have to dig into your ex friend collection trying to find some rare gems. I would’t let some decent stuff go for nothing, some of your audio friends could help. If there are some jazz or soul records on vintage vinyl the prices can be crazy and dealers at the shop will not tell you about it for sure, they will buy a bulk for very low prices, it’s just stupid to trust the dealers and let it go for nothing. There might be some record collectors you know personally who can help you, sell junk, keep the gold. If your musical taste is different from the ex owner it can be tricky. What kind of music do you have and how many records? |
Thanks for all the replies. I was as much simply curious what other people would do in the same situation, as for looking for advice. I had not even considered the legal aspect of the whole thing. So I’m glad some raised that issue. I’m not looking for my money back - gave up on that long ago, life is too short. Learn the life lesson, move on. Of all the posts this one tracks my sentiments and thinking most closely: You have no legal obligation at this point. However, I can tell by your post that you care about doing the right thing here. Your integrity is important to you. The past actions of your friend have nothing to do with how you conduct yourself now. He is responsible for his actions and you for your’s alone. I’m not actually one to hold grudges. I think our estrangement comes more from his own embarrassment about contacting me than anything else. As for selling the records, my situation is the following: I got back heavily in to vinyl several years ago and have been purchasing vinyl furiously. But also very cautiously and carefully. I don’t want to be one of those places overwhelmed with records everywhere and I’ve already reached my current storage limit. So I’ve already got a pretty big, well curated record collection. That’s why I haven’t spent much time even going through my friend’s records. I don’t want to have them "just to have them" and likely won’t want to keep many of them, if any. Though he was heavy in to vinyl way before me, and I think he was pretty careful about what he bought too, in terms of quality. The idea of putting much time at all in to the selling process is just a pain to me. There’s no way I want to turn selling the records in to some second job, e.g. using discogs etc. So I’m likely to get what I can for the ones local record stores will take, then maybe give away the rest. That is, all depending on how things go if I get in touch with my ex-friend. (Apparently some of my other friends have been in occasional contact, to I might be able to contact him). |
The difference between consulting an attorney as opposed to a couple of dozen random jailhouse lawyers on a message board is that the attorney is likely to have an informed opinion about the law where you live. This costs money. Whether you want to sell them yourself depends on whether you think being an online record dealer would be a fun hobby. What a record dealer offers is the ability to pay you up front for inventory that is likely not to sell for months or years. This is why you will get a lower price for the collection than you might want. A middle ground would be to pick out the more valuable items to sell yourself, and dump the middling majority of it on a dealer. We're likely in an era of peak LP now, so this would be the time to do that. Where I live in Los Angeles I see ads from record stores soliciting LP collections. |
Also realize to get "top" dollar for those records you’d have to painstakingly list and sell them individually. There’s a HUGE value discrepancy between their sum of median / max values on DiscOgs marketplace versus dumping the whole collection off to a dealer (or collector) for what they offer. There is also a HUGE labor discrepancy in these 2 scenarios. Your time is valuable, and you didn’t "ask" for this job, so the latter (much smaller) value is what you should apply against the debt if you’re gonna do it that way. |
Just ran a WWW search of - abandoned tangible personal property laws Canada - and came up with this link for Alberta. https://www.alberta.ca/unclaimed-property.aspx Their law "as I understand" it is (5 years/under $1K value/no need to report). You might try the same for your area. DeKay |
You shouldn’t have posted about this (here or anywhere), and you shouldn’t have tortured yourself over the moral implications - that just means your dickhead "friend" has now screwed you over TWICE! In the future, just stop listening as soon as someone pitches a ridiculous "the money will be here in X months" scenario. Tell them to wait X months. I've lent small money to friends, but never an amount I really cared about, or that in any way would complicate my life with its sustained absence. |
You should calculate interest to date and document the loan with accrued interest and total amount due. Then, try to find him through the internet and send him a polite demand letter with a final due date. If you cant find him, place an ad in the classified section of the newspaper in the last known town that you are certain he resided in with a respond by date. Are the records worth more than what he owes you? If so, you are golden. In either case, sell the records after your respond by date, document the net sales proceeds of the records and keep in your files. Also document if you choose to keep some of the records the approximate value for your files. All of the above is likely unnecessary and overkill, the steps however would ease your conscience and provide you peace of mind that you did everything the right way. |
I generally do not lend money to friends. I believe you may only meet one or two true friends in your life...if you're lucky. If I do lend, as I've done only once, I expect to never see that money again and look at it as a loss. In my case, she paid me back. But 11 years is already too long for something not in writing and already a debt owed. Still a good story. Thanks for sharing. |
Prior to posting here for advice: The records are yours. After posting here: Your hand-wringing shows you're consciously anticipating some type of legal fall-out. At this point ask for a legal opinion. In the US lawyers are a dime a dozen (no derision intended), there are enough that there are such things as "call a lawyer" for a somewhat minimum fee. What I would do or would have done should be obvious. You are an honorable person sir. Regards, barts |
You have no legal obligation at this point. However, I can tell by your post that you care about doing the right thing here. Your integrity is important to you. The past actions of your friend have nothing to do with how you conduct yourself now. He is responsible for his actions and you for your’s alone. Go ahead and try to contact him. Ask him if he wants them and if so to please arrange to have them picked up by a certain date. If he does not want them, then just confirm you are good to sell them and keep the proceeds. Make no mention of the money he owes you, but be gracious. In the end this approach will win your past friend over more than any other action you could possibly take. You also maintain your impeccable character and integrity. No downside to reaching out and concluding this matter. If he cannot be found after taking reasonable measures, then sell them. Good luck. |
If you and/or him did not sign anything about money or/and records then it’s just an illusion (a mutual agreement from 11 years ago). No one can prove anything. A pretty common situation between friends. You will never get your money back unless he will give it to you for some reason. He will never get his records unless you will give them to him for some reason. Very simple. You both have been waiting for 11 years already. What you have to know is that records DO NOT COST MUCH unless there is something rare, dealers will never tell you the real value of this collection and they will resell all the records separately for much higher prices. If you really want to sell records you have to look for each record online on the sources like popsike and discogs , then you will be able to separate rare and expensive records (if there are any) from cheap garbage. Dealers will rip you off again giving you about $3 per vinyl and then you will see them for $30 or even $300 (if there are rare records) at their store! |
I've learned my lesson with a similar situation. If you loan money to a friend, be prepared to either lose your friend or lose your money. The only thing that worries me is suppose he calls you next week and wants to pay you back and get his records? That would be a difficult conversation. I would (at least) try to get in touch with him once, then do what you want. If he ever contacts you, you can always say you attempted to contact him. |
I just hope that when you lent him the money, your financial situation was such that you could afford it. Otherwise, I wouldn't have given him "thousands of dollars." As for the records, yes, they're now yours given the time lapse and the fact that he stiffed you. Clear your conscience of any moral qualms you might have, and do with them as you wish. Apparently, your ex-friend had no moral qualms about not paying you back. |
Here's what I would do. Stare neurotically at my navel, ask a random bunch of even more neurotic navel gazers what should I do I am so conflicted, etc etc, circle back to gazing impotently at my navel, lather rinse repeat until another 11 years goes by, try and remember wtf was the question, then start another discussion what is the most neurotic way to figure out how to sell them? Where should I list them? For how much? One at a time or in batches? Ha. Just kidding. I would never ask anyone here what to do, about anything! Why? SCROLL UP AND READ!🤣🤣🤣https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jOwmWJV0q8 |
Perhaps there are two separate issues here..;) One is the money you lent to your 'friend' and which perhaps he now still owes you ( assuming you had some kind of deed or note)- and two- is the sale of his possessions. I do not think they are connected. As such, unless you have his permission to dispose of his possessions, I would be very careful in doing so. ( More than likely there is a legal answer to this point. One which you have been advised to discover). You stored his possessions for 11 years, which was done at your cost, unless you had a lease agreement with him. Interesting conundrum..and one which if you are seriously interested in doing the right thing, should be legally consulted, IMHO. |
There are any number of record dealers who post clips on YouTube about large collections they've acquired. I would suggest you contact one of these dealers to ask their opinion of whether you have the right to sell the goods. If their response is encouraging, you then contact an attorney for a consultation about the legality of you selling the property. This could be a single consultation for which you would pay a flat fee; you wouldn't have to involve the attorney any further. I doubt a dealer would buy it from you if he wasn't sure you had the right to sell it. Another option open is to hire a private investigator to find the whereabouts and contact information for the person who left the records with you. You could then negotiate with the owner, and perhaps get a written agreement to accept the the abandoned property in lieu of payment of the loan. This could also be done through an attorney, who would have established relationship with investigators. Whatever course you take, arrange a flat fee for the attorney's services, and then decide if it's worth it to you. |
I have lent money in excess of $1,000 about four times… I have NEVER gotten a penny back. Never lend a significant amount of money to a friend. Ever, unless you consider it a gift. Dispose of records as you see fit. I am sure the eleven years of storage fees now cover the whole cost of the collection. |