Why so many angry audiophiles?
My primary goal, from archaic GE turntable/radio combination to current OPPO/Maggie system is that the equipment is a tool that delivers music. I have $ tens of thousands more tied up in media that can become music than in the equipment itself. Yes, it's good to upgrade the equipment as personal tastes, equipment availability and budget allows, but should I ever win a $ million lottery, 99 % of the winnings aren't going towards equipment upgrades. I guess the anger comes from some that can no longer relax whilst hearing the music. |
Thanks Mapman, you make a good point. This used to be an enlightening forum in every sense of the word. Social media rage appears to have found it's way here. Hopefully the self appointed judges of all posters will get tired of telling everyone how to think and go troll somewhere else...but it's not likely. There's still plenty of good content here and plenty of people who love music and get enjoyment from working with their systems. Cheers |
I know I don’t have the technical knowledge or the experience with equipment of many on this forum, so it is easy for me to find threads that discuss something interesting to me. I especially enjoy the postings of those who can take a highly technical subject and explain it in terms that the average person, like me, can understand. Of course, I notice the sparring here and took that as a duel of wits, but then obviously it gets testy at times. I just skim over what doesn’t interest me, and I have sampled other audiophile forums for a frame of reference. I still prefer coming here. |
Anything that exhibits a high level of emotional involvement is bound to engender an elevated degree of conflict over choices made to enjoy such.... Vivaldi vs. Van Halen, and how to listen with what where when and why. So much like sport fans, overlaid with more than just whose jersey one shoulders.... *S* At least we don't sit in stadiums smeared with team colors wagging foam hands....or do we? Tubes, or tragedy. Solid States of sibilance. The A, A/B, D factions struggle over the possession of Truth and Beauty. "VTA, VTA, all is involved in VTA!"....one can almost hear the chant of the section, while the digital division debates a retort... Pretty damn funny, if one steps to one side of the crowds... ;) All this, for bliss....truly transient, totally engrossing edification. What a wonderful motley mess we is. (Hope your team 'wins'....*G*) Enjoy your music by whatever means is meaningful to you. 'Nuff said.... |
Some interesting quotes from Einstein. "Hail to the man who went through life always helping others, knowing no fear, and to whom aggressiveness and resentment are alien." "The only thing more dangerous than ignorance is
arrogance." "Stay away from negative people. They have a
problem for every solution." "I speak to everyone in the same way, whether he is the garbage man or the president of the university." "I believe in intuitions and inspirations. I sometimes feel that I am right. I do not know that I am." "Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the Gods." What does this have to do with the OP? Nothing, directly. But it does apply to a common occurrence found on these threads. If you've been on these threads for any length of time you will know exactly what this post is about. +1 to mapman and +1 to inna and +1 to any others who have shown compassion for others. |
Perhaps because of my age I have recently developed a certain intense dislike for the over abundance of self-righteousness I perceive around me in social media as well as another forms of media. Regardless of the subject matter politics, religion, love, sexual inclinations, and yes speakers and cables, ..I forgot the great dialectic about analog versus digital , it appears that this psychological malady is permeating our social fabric. Since I think it would be challenging to treat those individuals suffering from this malady, the best we can do is to treat its manifestation, so it does not infect the rest of us. How? Since ego plays such important role in the attitude of the self-righteous a possible solution is the use of shame. Hence language is the tool, we should not stand indifferent or silent to any instance, but point out how laughable that utterance is, the intensity of the ridicule measured to the degree of stupidity of the self-righteous manifested in its message, not only based on its content but as important in the tone of voice used to deliver it. I hope I am forgiven, it’s too early and I have not had my first cup of coffee. |
OP: Good question. It has been one of the thing most likely to abandon the forum. While you posed it as a rhetorical question, my assumption is that we can’t just "call on our better natures" to stop being angry. We need to think about why it’s happening. Here are a couple thoughts. I’m sure there are other reasons. This is a forum and I’m spitballing. 1. We are in a culture where debate is modeled constantly for us on television and other popular media. There, disagreement must be stark and dramatic or it’s not entertaining. If it’s not entertaining, it’s not watchable and people turn away -- and the purpose of TV is to make money. This is why it’s called an "Attention Economy." So, many of us (consciously or unconsciously) repeat the way we see argument modeled on TV. That leads to anger in our lives. 2. Political debate has become more acrimonious because it takes place largely according to its dominant format -- TV. (See point 1 above.). We create political debates (in tone, form) out of debates about audio. We need to stop doing that. As you point out, we’re debating over luxury items. 3. People ask questions they care about, but these wind up requiring deeper technical knowledge or greater experience than most on the forum have. Yet, it’s no fun to participate in a forum and not write *something.* When people get a bull-hockey answer or a half-assed answer to a question they care about, it annoys them, and they express that. Or -- their question is just ignored. Conflict is now lit. 4. Relative anonymity leads people to say things they wouldn’t in person. For some reason, people think that they can discharge whatever off-forum anger they have, here. Weird thing about anger, though. Unlike the "catharis" theory of anger -- the idea that anger is like pressure that needs to be "released" -- acting in angry ways just makes you (and others) angrier. (See: "Venting doesn’t work even among people who believe in the value of venting, and even among people who report feeling better after venting (Bushman, Baumeister, & Stack, 1999). In fact, venting has the opposite effect—it increases aggression. The better people feel after venting, the more aggressive they are. Venting can even increase aggression against innocent bystanders." https://alltheragescience.com/commentary/four-questions-on-the-catharsis-myth-with-dr-brad-bushman/ ) |
These are volatile times for sure. That's why I have decided to not engage in any political arguments or discussions on THIS site. I have a lot of opinions but I had to ask myself why I joined this site and engage in these forums. It was to learn from others all things audio. I have learned much with a long way to go. I will have my political discussions/ arguments on other social media sites and in person and leave this for all things audio! Happy New Year, left or right and may we all enjoy the wonder of music to the fullest extent possible. |
Perhaps angry folks are just afraid to adjust their paradigm to the changing times. Change is frightening (to some). 'If you can't see my point, or believe how I do, you're an idiot' There are as many roads back home as there are travelers. I gotta say, I'm the consistently happiest person I know. I just let people be who their gunna be. Allowance. |
I try to speak to others as I would like to be spoken to. The tough lesson is understanding "the more you do it, the more likely you will continue to do it". You practice good behavior, you will be treated in kind.. "Turn the other cheek" is good for ONE turn. There is NO "S" on cheek. When empathy and mutual respect are left out of the conversation, it's not a conversation it is a LECTURE. I see that as a HUGE problem.. When the person that's posing the question is just looking for others input. If we can't look back and see good, in our answer, it's best to just erase it.. If you can't offer and honest answer without insult, BE QUIET. I'm one happy fellow, BUT I find animals a lot more truthful the older I get...THUS I stay happy. I care for them and they care for me... AND the Good GOOD Lord takes care of both of us. Good health, and a safe and secure family goes a long way for this old Dad, too.. Regards to all |
I have a relatively (for this forum) inexpensive system. Sometimes I get angry because its not a reference system and I see its warts. Sometimes I am fully content because the music its playing is wonderous. When I am in the anger mode, I try to remember I have a loving wife who understands my need for a dedicated listening space and the occaisonal equipment upgrade. I also remember that my address is not a cardboard box, I have enough to eat and hopefully a sufficient retirment nest egg. Lets face it, everything beyond that is essentially a luxury. |
+1 mapman I for one have not posted a question on this forum simply because I didn't want to read the inevitable responses from those in attack mode. But, it is not a constant it ebbs and flows. I will certainly post again as I do enjoy the interaction. We may think that we are all connected by a common hobby, but the fact is we lead very separate lives and that one commonality is a very thin thread indeed. Thank you Mapman. Regards, barts |
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Used to be that people with "far out" views of how things worked lived in obscurity, believing what they believed, going on with life, angry at the world perhaps, but content because they were somewhat shielded from it. Fast forward to now. Not only are they no longer shielded, but they can embrace their views, stand on their soap box, and gather a like audience. But just like the world is no long shielded from their "far out" views, they are not shielded from having them any more. People love to share their beliefs, they want everyone to agree with them to validate those beliefs, but like all things based on belief, they don't stand up well to scrutiny. So why are people angry? - People hate having their beliefs questioned and challenged - Some don't suffer fools easily Did you see how I did an analysis of why people are angry while making people angry at the same time? Yep, its a gift :-) |
So why are people angry?I am rarely angry, but i dont suffer dogmas parading as science....Or sophistry parading as intelligence... Or free sarcasm at the expanse of some group of people , here "audiophiles"... If you are "cool" like i usually am, perhaps you will be able to read your post in a cool way and walking through your own sarcasm, you will discover why you are a sophist all the time along...It is only an elementary logic exercise dont be afraid! I will help you.... Replace the word "angry" you apply to all "audiophiles" by the word "stupidity" then read your post, you will discover easily the fallacy of your sarcastic sophistry... And you will no more laugh at the expanse of someone... So why people are stupid? -People hate having their beliefs questioned and challenged ( except me) -Some dont suffer people stupid easily ( especially me) Did you see how i did an analysis of why people are stupid while making people stupid at the same time? Yep, its a gift:) «Why are you so intelligent Groucho they said? Simple, when i look at someone very stupid i go to look myself in a mirror first »- Groucho Marx |
I think the same, and one time i even make a comparison with one of my friend and the difference were , if there is one, we were never sure, minute one.... This is not a proof at all by far.... I understand then those who prefer vinyl in totally other conditions than mine....But i think also that on all counts it is better.... |
I’ve already thrown that one back twice already.People here are not fish you can keep and reject... Arguments, yours or mine, must be logical, but way more than that, we must truthfully try to understand them .,.. Bashing people is not an argument in my book... People are not all stupid because they are "audiophiles"... «Humility is better than intelligence, in the first case we never cease to learn, in the last case we already know»- a fish who dont want to be a fisherman |
audio2design711 posts01-12-2021 9:14pmI've already thrown that one back twice already. It keeps jumping back on the hook. |
Catch & release. Fillet fish. Make fish soup. (Flounder or halibut makes for a default to #1.....) Don't understand the 'anger'....I thought 'enjoyment' and 'exchange' was the concepts to be pursued. *sigh* Wrong yet again... As one who 'goes against the grain' in general in pursuit or conduct, that I may have been silenced by some is Your call, Your option. In a era where some have decided that trampling and ransacking a public building, threatening those who've been elected to (perhaps) be our advocates there...I find deplorable at minimum. Unfortunately...expected. Trying times, indeed. Any public venue and adventure has drifted into 'us vs. them', easily devolving into teethgritting shouting matches and the clenched fist. All in all....send me the tab for a round. I'll stay home, and play something appropo...and drink alone. Cheers...:( Enjoy your bitters.... |
I am almost certain that the
answer is because most audiophiles score lower than average on what
psychologists define as trait agreeableness.
Agreeableness is the degree to which your behaviour towards others is motivated by the desire to like and be liked by other people. As a highly agreeable person, if you don't agree with someone you are more likely to just smile and say something nice rather than pick a fight with them.
Agreeableness correlates strongly with an interest in people - so the majority of individuals who work in people or care giving fields such as health care, hospitality, teaching etc, score higher than the average for the population on trait agreeableness.
Lower levels of agreeability correlate strongly with an interest in things - so the majority of people who are engineers, mechanics, industrial designers, inventors etc score lower and agreeableness than the average for the population.
Audiophiles tend to be the latter and therefore don't tend to smile sweetly when they disagree with someone, they tend to say what they think and say it with a sugar free coating!
As an additional insight, the most disagreeable people in the world, say the bottom 4%, are close to 100% of the prison population! They are also almost exclusively men whereas the top 5% of the most agreeable people in the population are exclusively female.
Men and women differ on agreeableness by about 1.5-2SD depending on which tool you use to make the measurement. It is why the majority of audiophiles and most engineers are male and the reverse is true for teaching, nursing, hospitality etc.
There are some very robust papers that explore the idea of ‘Men with things, women with people’ if you care to look for them. |
Free Speech is under siege. The younger generations don’t like dissent. “Your words are hurting me”, “I don’t feel safe”, etc. Couple that with the ubiquitous tendency for people to get aggressive during Internet arguments in a way that they wouldn’t in real life, and therefore create a need for moderation, and soon every discussion will be limited to total uniformity. |
I'll tell you what makes me angry, coming on this forum to read threads that have gone political, or social justice. I mean come on. This is an AUDIO forum. If I want to hear or read about that shyte I can go basically anywhere else in life and have to put up with that garbage, the news, social media, late night TV, professional sports, movies. This is and should be a place to get away from all that for a little while. Our own little space to avoid that and discuss a hobby that we love. For those of you who insist on bringing those subjects to this forum, I say, you are ruining it for everyone else. If it keeps up, oh well, I've lived several decades without this forum and can go several more without it. My $0.02 |
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