Why do so many sellers take offense to offers on their listings?

@travelinjack BINGO!!!

@boxcarman Don't you see your problem? It's right there in front of you. You expected $800.00 for an item and stereobuyers offered you $400.00. What did you expect? It's an $800 dollar item and they are a reseller. They're certainly not going to offer you market price for an item, You have to understand the situation. See the last sentence of my post above.

@simao Seems to get it. First of all from a selling standpoint. If I want $2000 for an item, I'm going to list it for $2500 so I have some negotiating room. If someone really wants the item and they offer my selling price or even a couple hundred less, I still come out ahead. From a buyers stand point, you have to know what you are willing to pay for an item. I have received many offers at a low price and then neverget a counter offer. I think a lot of people don't understand the art of negotiation. It's a used piece of gear. You want to sell/buy it. You should expect to negotiate. Some people are so offended on either side of the trade. Don't be offended.....negotiate! If I am willing to pay the $3500.00 asking price for an item, my first offer is not going to be the ask. I will say something like, can you live with $3000.00? If I get a yes, then I know the person is wanting to move the item on, If I get a no then I will split that amount to see if we can settle at the $250.00 difference.

You also have to understand how to control a situation. When I purchased our home I told my wife, we're going to offer "X" and they are going to counter with "Y" and we are going to quibble over a few thousand dollars on a large dollar purchase. I told my wife that if we pay the asking price the conversation is over an we control the situation. We offered full price with possession at closing and made the deal. No one here should be offended. If you receive an offer simply justify your price....(this is a current model unit that is in excellent shape at half the price of new) If they aren't willing to come back with a better offer then so be it. There are always ways to negotiate, both parties need to be willing to do so. As a successful salesman I can tell you that you don't get unless you ask. Have a starting point but be willing to haggle. For sellers, understand that people are going to go fishing to see what they can catch. Simply counter offer and then you know where the person is really at. Remember, if you are "offended" then that is on you, not the other person. Being offended is just plain dumb. 

It may well be an issue of culture, or education. There are times a potential buyer, giddy with the thought of falling it the deal of a lifetime, is tiresome and unappealing when parting with something you have found value in. Perhaps like shaking the hand of a teenager who has just come out of the bathroom with a skin mag and would like to meet your daughter. She may be technically "fair game" but that does not mean it is pleasant to deal with the pimples or greasy hand. We are in this for the pleasure of music not low life ego trips.

I’ve bought and sold gear, sometimes made money and occasionally broke even. Mostly ’common’ brands, Martin Logan, Emotiva, Tekton, NAD, Topping, B&W, Buchardt, etc. I price things just below the next lowest seller. I figure it gives me a slight advantage and ensures the buyer is getting a fair deal. My ultimate goal is for the buyer to be satisfied, and enjoy their purchase. Occasionally a buyer will low-ball, and I explain my pricing strategy, which will either lead to a sale or not. I figure if the lowest price available isn’t good enough for them, then they’re probably looking to resell. I’d rather keep the gear for a rainy day, dig it out of the closet a couple years later and it’s suddenly like a new toy again. There’s no offense taken by low- ball offers. People (myself included) can make financially sound purchasing decisions - especially with such non-essential items. And sellers (myself included) can be doing the same with selling decisions.

@bubba12-definitely agree on any offer being fair for something that hasn't sold in 6 months. 

@schw06 if you are selling at a reasonable price then you are probably not the person I am referring to in this post. One time I offered a pretty low offer on a piece because it had been on the site for over six months. At that point I don’t think there are any offensive offers.

Knowledge is king, do your due diligence on the item you are either buying or selling both technically and financially. When it comes time to list or buy you have confidence in making a good transaction. One lesson I learned the hard way, is when you purchase an item with the idea that someday you will sell it to upgrade or no longer need it buy something that will retain some resale value. Case in point: Bought a Triumph Trident 900 motorcycle years ago for a good price and rode it for several years and then decided to sell. It was in perfect condition with only 5,000 miles, but Triumph is a niche brand, not like Honda orYamaha, and appeals to a certain crowd so it took a while to sell at 1/2 of the original cost. Now only buy items that I have confidence in selling in reasonable time at mineable loss.

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Have any of you ever used "stereobuyers"?  Full page ad in Stereophile.  I am trying to sell My Vincent hybrid 150 Watt integrated which retailed for $2000 when I bought it.  I was expecting $800 to $1000 for it as it is in Primo condition.  They offered $400!  I am still insulted.

There has been a lot of talk about sellers egos but a low ball offer suggests one of several things to me.

1. That buyer is a Low Baller Phenotype(there system has $100,000 worth of retail goods they got for under $10,000). They almost don’t care what they are buying as long as it’s at a fire sale price. They enjoy showing pictures of their system and regaling stories of their incredible deals to anyone that will give them a pulpit.

2. That buyer is a Win at all Cost Phenotype. Their goal is to beat you in negotiation. They aren’t interested in a fair price. They want to win and want you to lose in the negotiation...great ego boost and they can continue to look at that piece of audio gear daily reminding them of their conquest.

3. Haven’t taken the time to investigate recent prices of what that item sold for. Their mindset is some fraction of the retail price regardless of other market forces like scarcity, age etc...

Bottom line is that I don’t want to deal with any of them. My prices are always firm, based on current trends, and typically slightly below market value. There are enough fantastic buyers out there that someone realizes it quickly and rarely do I have something for sale more than a few days. I want the buyer to "win" knowing they got a good deal. I win by securing a sale before the ad goes stale.

I've been lowballed a couple times on an integrated I have for sale. It's not worth my trouble sell at a lower (than already fair) Price. I will keep it in the closet for a spare. It's their loss.

Well I sold a lot of items on Facebook market place but ones in a while I get low ball Offer less than 50% off asking price lol 😂 so what I mostly do is click their name and block them for life 😉☺️🤣

I took low ball offers personal 

thanks to Google it’s easy to do quick research for selling price of most items out there 

I'm with @mikelavigne ​​​​​​. I work in sales and price is usually the starting point the buyers use to engage and smokescreen. It's up to the seller to provide something besides price if they want to close the sale and keep their margins. I've made two fair offers to two different sellers in the last 30 days on a $4k amp and a $14k amp. Neither felt they needed to budge and both are still and will continue sitting on those items until they cut their price or offer something else to entice the buyer. I just personally won't overpay because they feel I should. 

@rhodes, still working on absorbing all that....*L*

If on the hunt, I study the market on it prior to.  If I think it's fair enough, the seller gets theirs and all happiness....  'Let's make a deal' w/ a 'firm' generally a no-start, obo begats curiousity why...

Shipping is what it is, but private party packaging can be a crapshoot.  Insist on insurance, or nogo...

No Returns?  PayPal it.

Mho....Buyer ought to beware, just 'cuz...

Dealer’s don’t have to sell.  They can always ignore low ball offers.  It takes more energy to pour scorn on a lowball offer than it’s worth.

When selling an item here on Audiogon and I make a counteroffer to a potential buyer, am I obligated to sell it to him even though I may have received a better offer while waiting for his reply?

ozzy

@markpao hmmm. I think you are wrong. I have made numerous deals and I have made low offers that were sweetened as we negotiated. Not to mention a ‘no response’ makes me hesitant to go after other items a person has for sale. There is one dealer in particular that lists items over and over again. After no response 

from him a couple times I have written him off completely. 

@jond i am pondering your generous offer, i can get back to you with my counter in a decade or so. Look for an email from getoffmylawngrouchyaudiophile.org

Thanks for making my Dad’s day……

@bubba12 

"I just believe a seller should come back with a reply of what they would be willing to accept"

IME, replying to a lowball offer has never resulted in a sale, ever. 

"If the price is firm don't leave the offer option available"

I use the "Offer" feature so I can check out the buyer. You can't do that with "Buy it now"

my favorite tim_p was when selling a heavy pair of mid sized speakers,without boxes,  local sale only, "how much to ship to Paris?"...

I have sold quite a few pieces through CAM/USAM and at the bottom of my ad I always state, "please, no trades or low ball offers, those that do will be ignored", and yes, people still email with stupid offers and I just ignore or I will respond if it is truly ridiculous.

What I truly dislike is when people ask, so how much is that in US or Euro funds? Umm, it’s called an "online currency converter" its free and readily available online even...

@tony1954

nailed it ! Point, set, and match …in tennis jargon.

But with a qualifier IMO that problems created in ad communication is not necessarily tilted more towards some Sellers,, but rather equal in number and in poor form with unrealistic 1st steps of some Buyers .

Whatever I am buying. If the initial asking price is not realistic I move on.

If the asking price is over what I think is a fair price, based on model, age and condition, then I assume the seller has built in a buffer so I offer a little under his price and see where it goes.

If the price is fair, I don't quibble and pay the asking price so I don't screw myself over a few dollars.

On average, I believe more problems start with the seller, than the buyer.

Unfortunately there are resellers who will offer you an amount that guarantees that they will make a massive profit when they sell at your current asking price.

I think it's fair to call these lowball offers and not develop kind feelings for them. 

"If you haven't noticed the audio market seems to have come to a standstill" 

No, I have not.

People get too emotionally invested in the gear.

People frequently overvalue what they have.

No one is forcing you to sell at the lower price. Be a grown up and ignore it if you don’t like it.

It is business after all not personal.

I treat reasonable offers from potential end users reasonably. Those can maintain an intelligent conversation about a product, and tend to ask relevant questions. Sizable discounts may go to those who deeply understand the product.

I dislike lowballing from those who just want to make a quick buck on resell. Those don't care about the product at all, but just mechanically offer a low enough price virtually guaranteeing a profit on resell.

I sold something last year and low-balled myself. Can't win for trying! 

It seems everyone here has a different spin and that’s ok. I just believe a seller should come back with a reply of what they would be willing to accept. It seems easier than all the other approaches.

Why are you upset if sellers think your offers are insulting?

Who cares what they think?

Get out there and toughen up your psychology.

@tomic601 It's your lucky day friend I will give you 2.5X retail a cool $500 for that 1961 MC240 and you're welcome! 🙂

@rhodes 

Life is nothing but negotiating. 

Sounds like a page from a Grant Cardone book...Sell or Be Sold!

@dayglow  +1

Life is nothing  but negotiating. Morning to night. From the day your born to the day you die.  The 3 r's are second compared on how to negotiate. A low ball offer on Monday might look real good the following Monday, buy it was missed. It is said sometime the customer is king, I say he is God. Nothing happens without a buyer no matter the price. Pricing can be  is very difficult. Market and taste change very quickly. Price is what you pay value is what you get.  The world of  negotiating can be ruthless. The subject is endless and the hunt can be the best part. Anticipation is greater the realization. The issue with audio equipment is the it is all purchased from discretionary income. No body is really hungry.               

IMO it's to avoid the buyer that wants something for next to nothing. Not all sellers are destitute, maybe they don't want the audio room or storage area looking like a cluttered repair shop. I have several boxed items to sell but don't want any dealings with buyers having a garage sale mentality.

OK...you guys have talked me into passing on these speakers. Anyway, another pair is about the last thing i need.

@mitch2

Exactly! My first shipment of Tannoy’s got damaged. I was quite shocked to see the inadequacies in the packaging on a $30K speaker. The dealer end up replacing the damaged pair.

The difference is when you purchase directly from the manufacturer/factory shipping damage is taken care of by having them ship out another new speaker but when buying used both the buyer and the seller are often SOL in the case of shipping damage.  Better to be safe.

I am usually more interested in the quality of the buyer so as to avoid the risk of problems after the sale, which is a practice that has served me well here for over 20 years.

A very good point. I've always been a value shopper, not a price shopper. 

@lalitk Good point. Although you'd think factory packaging would be sufficient.

I agree with @lalitk ​​​​@jjss49 , In general you will get buyers that want to see how far they can push limits on an offer. I just did this buying a car for one of my children and got most of what I asked for, I also would have respected them declining the offer and countering. When I get a low ball offer I respectfully decline and make a counter offer. Why get mad on either side?

agree this is a nice thread, speaks to the psychology and mindset of various buyers and sellers in our hobby, where used gear is a lifeblood for many who seek to experience different equipment at an acceptable cost

i personally don’t attach ego to selling any gear... you are a seller looking for a buyer, and thus welcome all interest - different folks approaching with different methods and tone of communication get different responses, some more friendly, some more terse than others - i do try to remember buyers are also audiophiles and we come in all different ages, backgrounds, experience levels, some have more money than others, some have more fear than others in buying used

i have also lived in cultures where haggling is pretty much a ritual on any meaningful purchase... so while i personally don’t care for it, i accept it as a necessary evil, if you want to sell something, you gotta play the game, even if you don’t have ego wrapped up in the sale, maybe the buyer does in his purchase, so maybe you give a little try make him/her happy?

but in general, i do as @lalitk says, on any lower or 'lowball' offer, i state what i am willing to do, and then wait for a response

My trip to the Honda dealer for service reveals a $40 k Civic with $10% ADM tacked on as the starting point…… I think Mike makes good points, good faith is essential…on both sides….

The ADM on a G wagon at the local Benz dealer was 40%. Glad i got ours when buyers had more sway……

As an old dude on a fixed income I look for value in quality used audio gear. I do my due dilegence and know within reason what the product offered is worth. I also will only purchase used gear close to home that is in excellent working condition. By purchasing used local  should any isue occur it can be resolved face to face and I don't have to pay shipping. My initial offer may be 10% or 20% lower then the asking price if the initial posting is in the fairly priced range.Since I look for used as a buyer I must be flexable based on who the manufactorer is and my desire to own that product. I was fortunate in purchasing newer gear with excellent reviews at a very good price.  The components may not be an ideal match but hey I'm buying used so compromises are expected. I might also add that the audiogon sellers were beyond reproach.

I’ve seen on USAM that there are people who seem to just low-ball everything. Occasionally they get a taker, and then the re-sell it here. Supplemental income, I suppose. Depressing. I guess you could call it arbitrage or market clearing.

Value is in the Eye of the owner. And sometimes we get emotionally attached as human beings. 

I've been shocked a bunch of times, at the low price an item I was watching, sold for (relative to asking price). Would have bought it if I knew how low price would go. I'm never offended by low offers, except the few that then argue why I should accept their low offer. Most of us here are not professional sellers.

@secretguy 

I would insist on freight shipping if you are dealing with floor standing speakers with cardboard packaging. Unless they are in wooden crates, they are unlikely to survive FedEx / UPS delivery. 

When I sell a used item, I mark the price as FIRM. My prices are almost always lower than others being currently offered. When somebody lowballs after that, I find it very annoying. It’s hard not to be rude to the low-ballers given those facts.