Why do so many sellers take offense to offers on their listings?

@carlsbad I agree with you. 

Negotiation is part of the process. I expect offers when I list something. I evaluate supply and demand and determine how much I’m willing to move on offers. When buying, I often make polite offers.

Those who are offended by offers are generally:

1. Control freaks.

2. Likely to keep owning the items listed for sale for a long time.

Jerry

PS  If you have to announce that you will ignore lowball offers then you aren't very good at ignoring...if fact, you have already acknowledged them before they are made and I bet most of the time you will respond to them, probably with a smart ass remark of your own.

I have a process that I follow before and during selling.This is just my opinion.

1. When pricing your item don't look at what sellers listing price.  Look for the "sold or complete" price on all websites to get your base price to list. Many sellers will list a ridiculous price and they think this is what the market pricing is. 

2. Unless the price is firm; I will accept an offer with a 15% and 20% less. This is retail sales standard practice. Some sellers believe that 10% is a great discount, but in my opinion,10% is not an exciting offer to give for items under $500. 

I think the seller, making it clear that he feels no obligation to respond to every low ball offer is just good communication.  if the offer is close enough that he feels it's worth his time to respond then he will.  Nothing personal either way, just good communication that the seller may not deem it worthwhile to respond or counter offer.

As I was reading some of the responses, the sob story 'buyer' comes to mind. The 'hey, I'd like to buy it, but Hurricane Sandy took my house out to sea, we're living in a shelter and my kid was just diagnosed with rickets...would you take $250'?

Good to know, and appreciate the heads up @saburo. The PM had me thinking though, for I’ve proposed (reasonable) offers in such a way before with no response from said sellers. These particular items I knew wouldn’t sit for long therefore I chalked them up as, “snooze you lose.” Dusted myself off and planned the next move.

@dabel I’ll give you some of my stats (anecdotal). . I will have 1 - 10+ private message (PM) inquires on individual items I have for sale, call it 4 - 5 on average. Four out of 5 times the offers come over PM and not through the Audiogon "make offer" tab. Of those offers via PM, I’d say 1 in 5 turns into a sale. Half the PM offers to buy, I think, are well-meaning vacillators that back out. They almost always NEVER contact me later to say why. The other half are time-wasters. My advice to buyers: be sincere and ready to buy. I’ve never regretted not taking an offer that was low, because I don’t price anything that is out of reason. Also, I don’t have to ’make a deal’ I own everything outright and have no debt. I think the vast majority of sellers fall into the same camp. if you need back up to support your offer, use Hifishark.com. the Blue Book is dated and out of touch with current market values.

@saburo, are these PM’s standard protocol and adhered to by the vast majority of Audiogon sellers?

@saburo I make real life offers. 

"Why do so many sellers take offense to offers on their listings?"

How are you making your offer, is it binding through the Audiogon system or is it a weak-ass, noncommittal PM where it means nothing? I can handle low ball offers and respond in kind. I have nearly 300 transactions on A’gon and have been here 20+ yrs (in spite of my profile saying 11-yrs). What I do here is purely hobby related, in my professional life I sell for a living and know what pre-qualifying a buyer is all about. If you contact a seller through PM you are def relegated to tire kicker status (i.e. time waster). I can’t tell you how many times someone said "ill buy it at X price" through PM and not follow through. The PM function is for asking questions, not making offers to buy.

When I see the phrase "Make an Offer" my interpretation of that is the Seller is attempting to encourage dialogue. The person wants to sell the item, knows that it is used, but feels that his item deserves consideration at a specific price but is also open to considering another price.  I see noting wrong with this.  I take no offense when I receive a price that I think is too low.  I have sold at least 2 or 3 items where the buyer started out lower than I expected and we were able to eventually come to an agreement on a price that we both felt was fair and we completed the transaction.  Its called Negotiations.  Neither party gets exactly what they expected but at the end of the day each agree on a price that they both are satisfied with.  

well said

When I see the phrase "Make an Offer" my interpretation of that is the Seller is attempting to encourage dialogue. The person wants to sell the item, knows that it is used, but feels that his item deserves consideration at a specific price but is also open to considering another price.  I see noting wrong with this.  I take no offense when I receive a price that I think is too low.  I have sold at least 2 or 3 items where the buyer started out lower than I expected and we were able to eventually come to an agreement on a price that we both felt was fair and we completed the transaction.  Its called Negotiations.  Neither party gets exactly what they expected but at the end of the day each agree on a price that they both are satisfied with.  

You're not dealing with sales professionals, for the most part. Most of the time they're inexperienced in dealing with 'customers' and way too emotional about what they think the value of their special DAC or turntable is. If I got insulted every time someone gave me a ridiculously ill informed offer, I would have been broke many years ago.

I wouldn't get my "undies in a bunch" over an offer that I'd consider "low ball", when I've gotten them, it's usually someone contacting me through the email feature, so they are not really "committed" to making that offer.  I usually respond with a price I'd consider and leave it at that.

Speaking of using the email feature, I'd not at all consider an email contact as an "offer", I'd insist that the potential buyer make a formal offer on the site.  One time the potential buyer asked for my cell number, as he said he had some questions, I gave it to him and what he really wanted to do was negotiate, we came to an agreement on the price, but when he arrived at my home for the pickup, he said he thought about it during the drive and said he'd only offer $600 less than we'd agreed upon.  "No Thanks".  After that experience, I've insisted on the buyer making an offer on the site.

the primary purpose of this site is to buy and sell gear...though there is discussion of music, there are many other sites more focused on music and quality recordings...

Just look at all the posts here, how many are about music, less than 10%???

There are threads that are dedicated specifically to music and it's probably safe to say that many of the participants in those threads spend 80-90% of their time in the Audiogon forum there.  Who knows, maybe some of them have even banded together outside the confines of Audiogon and spend a lot more time somewhere else discussing music as well as gear.

Either name your price or put it up to auction.  I don't understand why this is an issue.

Many different ways to go about selling but I only deal with the not offended type. It’s just as easy to reject an offer and offer up an acceptable price.

I respond to low ball offers by informing the buyer I only had one at his offer and he just missed is offer being accepted 10 minutes ago. Sorry. But I have another one  at a little higher price if he wishes. It has worked.   This fun thread reminds me of the question, what is the worst thing in the world?  answer,   when 2 poor people owe each other, one can't pay and the other can't wait.  

I have to say this has been an interesting and useful thread. I made it all the way to the end so far, and that doesn’t happen very often.  So many good comments.  

I’ve been an A-goner for a while now but rarely buy much, other than accessories.  I’ve resisted the temptation to sell my old gear here partly because of the rude way people talk to one another; it sets a certain tone that makes me wonder if getting rid of something could possibly be worth the potential aggravation.  Audiophiles are such a sensitive bunch ; ).  

Communication IS key.  
If an offer is ignored that speaks for itself and I think it’s unnecessary to reply in a negative way.  However, a polite response that you are looking for something closer to asking price, continues the dialogue rather than ending it.  

I gotta say though that things are definitely different now than they were some time back.  I searched a few topics recently like subwoofer settings I think and was instantly struck by the difference in tone.  The older the thread, the more pleasant the conversation.  After reading quite a few threads from 10 - 15 years ago I realized I was not imagining it.  

My point is that while someone’s lowball offer may seem rude, there likely was no bad intent, and there’s nothing to be gained with a snarky response.  More importantly, doing your part to keep the conversation agreeable, benefits all of us.  

Now that that’s out of the way, does anybody need a 20 year old 7.1 ch AVR that weighs 65 lbs and has no HDMI switching? 
Lowball offers accepted.  
 

Woof 

Less than 10% sounds about right @gnaudio. 

Early on in the audio game, I began inserting "No lowball offers, please" in my F.S. listings. I did so because I was often getting emails/posts offering 1/4 to 1/2 of my the asking price, usually w/no other questions about the item. That’s not a negotiation; It’s a drive-by opportunist hoping to find a desperate seller.

The other reason I put that phrase in my F.S. listings is that I’m plugged into the hobby and have a very good idea what different types of gear are selling for. Before even deciding on a selling price, I research that gear category as a last-minute sanity check...maybe things have changed for those who sell X, and I need to know that. Either way, the price I choose is carefully chosen to be market neutral (not too high, not too low), and also to reflect the condition and use pattern of the F.S. item.

I don’t get every single price right. When something isn’t selling, I’ll either reprice it, or take it off the market. Either way, I never accept low balls. Life is too short.

And it goes without saying, so I’ll say it: I also don’t make lowball offers of others.

No need to go into detail. What is going on here is rather commonplace in all areas of retail business. I don't buy that much Audio online but fortunately the companies I deal with for audio have never given me any grief regarding a sale item.

That is not to say that there aren't dealers that use so called "sale items" as a come on to attract business. It's that simple

@mikelavigne , my first three cars were Hondas. 

I do not take offers and have a polite one word answer, no. I usually am selling something just to get it out of my way and have already priced it below Blue Book value. If audiophiles are so concerned about money they should stop buying silly sh-t that does nothing. They might even try building their own cables.

@dabel my comment was about the reference to people getting mad about an offer that could somewhat be alleviated by them learning how to communicate better with other humans rather that being on here complaining or listening to music all of their spare time. I also don’t believe fully that music brings us together here, equipment does, it’s very different than music. Just look at all the posts here, how many are about music, less than 10%???

there have also been long, at times contentious threads, about what actually constitutes a low ball offer...I certainly have been watching enough items, that some do sell at very low prices, so I guess some will make many low ball offers knowing 1 or 2 will be accepted...some here care less than others what price they get, they just want to get rid of stuff...though since we don't know each other, I never think of it as personal or offensive, just business as usual...

Actually, I do take offense at some low ball offers. Why, we both are smart enough to know what it is worth new and the depreciation value, but yet there are people who "want something for nothing" and I will respond along the lines, you are kidding...right?!

There are times where low ballers will offer 30-50% but are prepared to pay much closer to ask price. I know this because when I ignore their offers they keep coming back with higher offers…but I still ignore them because IMO they are more likely to try to take advantage of me after the sale. 
 

Agon, to its credit has fewer low ballers than other market places IME. 

I understand that oranda, though I think most realize this is no longer a "hobbyist" site,  but a very commercial site as well now...

As Eric Idle says on Monty Python's The Life of Brian "ya got a haggle"

@jl35 Its amazing the number of sellers you will find that are overly proud of their gear.

I do not think many sellers  take offense to offers,  just a vocal few...

I don't understand it.  Buyers want a bargain and sellers want as much as they can get, generally.  So what?  As a seller, if you get lowball offers, just say no.  No reason to get offended by it. Buyers can't  be faulted for trying to get a bargain.

Just to add, as a Seller I have a set price(ad)and lowest I am willing to accept. If need be, to help my ad along, I will offer "free shipping" in asking price "only" inside my country. It also depends on what I'm selling, a cable is free, a 60 lb amp not so much. If I come down in price during negotiations shipping cost and insurance always plays into it. PayPal fees are always mentioned in the ad and will be charged to the Buyer at going rate, "unless" it is sent as friend/family which is free to the Buyer.

Last, negotiating is always part of the dance, and hopefully all parties leave the floor smiling and with each others phone numbers......

@gnaudio, “music a little less” our universal language. :-(

Less communication and “more of that good stuff” is what brings us together, know? Maybe :-)

What you are running into may itself be a negotiating tactic. Acting as though you wouldn't consider and are insulted for having received such a "low ball offer" may just be another way of asking you or suggesting that you should increase your offer. Make whatever offer you feel comfortable with and it the seller doesn't like it you don't make the deal. The smart seller would try to negotiate but not all sellers feel the same.

So many sellers prices are inflated, I sell high but my equipment is always in perfect, as new condition. I personally pay more for that when I buy. I’ve also “lowballed” because the selling price was too high, not near market price, I’ve also purchased this offers as the seller realizes they are too high. Negotiations are a skill, so many just make rude comments and walk away if the price is too high. I encourage buyers to suss the seller out. You may find a great deal. People talk in absolutes in this hobby, there are no absolutes. Maybe people here should listen to music a little less and try to interact with humans a little more! It could be beneficial.

Some sellers are great to deal with, and some are plain rude.

In my opinion offers that are about 30% off the asking price are fair, and we can negotiate from there (both as a seller and a buyer.) One of the smoothest transactions I've ever had on audiogon was for an item priced at $3300. I offered $2700, seller countered with $3000 and he paid shipping and we had a deal within a few minutes.

Same as a seller. If you make a super low offer I politely decline. No need to get personal. Unless you're a scammer who "purchased" the item I sell and never pay for it, and ask me to send it to another country or your friend who's going to pay me later... 

I've sold a lot of things on eBay, very often with the 'Offer' option. I had one item listed at $995, it was probably worth $850-900. I never even saw one eager buyers first 6-7 offers, they were so low they were automatically ignored. He started at $225, then kept adding $10. Was I offended? Nope. I did contact him eventually, complete waste of time. My favorite ones are wannabe buyers contacting me to bitch about my 'way too high price', how it's not worth that, and will never sell. I make sure to let them know when it does, lol.

I guess I’m not alone in thinking an offer is a starting point to a negotiation. I am happy to hear it.

@bubba12 I have bought and sold items that started with a lowball offer, so yes, that is certainly wrong. The one way to guarantee the death of a transaction is to end communication.

As a seller, I don’t need multiple great offers. I just need one. Buyers can offer what they want. I don’t need/want to know their phenotype, psychological issues, if they were breast or bottle fed... If I don’t like their offer, I don’t accept. If the offer is good, time to start packing the gear for shipment. It’s that simple.

As a buyer, how am I to know what the seller’s final sell point is? Unless the sale is marked as firm, many times they don’t even know. So for a seller to take offense to the fact that a buyer did not guess the magical, secret number that allows them to feel warm and fuzzy about a sale is absurd. The objective of a transaction is to exchange money for goods, nothing more.

Quick story: I was recently looking at buying a somewhat popular, not so expensive item that was listed in 3 or 4 different ads on eBay. I received an offer from a seller that was a bit below his original asking price. I wrote the seller simply asking if they could let me know what their best price was as I was looking to make a quick deal. They wrote back insulted that I would ask such a thing and that they would never sell to me regardless of my offer. I ended up buying off another ad. The offended seller had to re-list multiple times and after months and months, they stopped posting. Not a shock that it never sold.

There are some sellers who think they deserve top prices on what ever they sell and are complete jerks if you ask for even a penny off. I understand they have bills to pay, but they really should try to let people down a bit more Graciously.

“Anybody who lists an item for sale and notes “lowballs will be ignored” is potentially missing lots of opportunities to sell.”

If a buyer walks away from an ad after reading above message then what does that say about the buyer? Is he a lowballer or lacks the ability to strike a cordial communication with the seller?

From a seller point of view, I interpret this message as seller is not interested in haggling over price nor wasting his time over back n forth negotiations.

There are always ways to break the ice with someone who isn’t flexible on price. I hate to say it but most people are just plain rude in their communication to the seller. The above message doesn’t deter me from reaching out to the seller. I always start by greeting the seller and ask them politely if there is room for negotiations and state my offer price along with short explanation on my offer price. And what does my offer include i.e. who is paying for shipping and PayPal fees. 

The best way to respond to any offer, including a low ball is to send a counter offer. Being offended makes no sense. If you offer me 1000 on a 10000 lusting I will counter at 9,900. Show you are a serious seller and respond to all offers.

@falconquest @fernski  I agree with both you gentlemen. Great answers!

I had a boss who once told me that prior to setting a product price he would contract so market research, look at the competition and then finally ask the customers what they were willing to pay. 
 

There is plenty of info available to allow the seller to set a price in the ballpark of current and recent offerings… but that doesn’t mean buyers have the same view. And, at the end of the day, the seller doesn’t have to sell. 
 

Why does this seem to happen more and more frequently?  I suspect it is because our culture has become “deal” oriented vs fair value oriented. 
 

Personally, I care as much or more about the credibility of the seller and the condition of the product as I do about the price. 

I feel the same way @bubba12.  What does it take to say no to a “lowball”? One second? Often if you thank people for their interest and politely decline the item now becomes something they can’t have and naturally they want it more.  Then they can’t let it go and negotiations start.  I’ve often made reasonable sales that started with a “lowball”.  Anybody who lists an item for sale and notes “lowballs will be ignored” is potentially missing lots of opportunities to sell.  Not very smart.