What is the proper loudness for listening?

Your gear, your speakers, your room along with treatment (or lack thereof), the equal loudness curve along with your personal preference all play a role.

9 to 11 clock position.

Your age!

60-70’s on the Decibel Meter ap set on “C” for me. I guess I have young ears…80’s + just too much of a good thing and need to left to short stints.

What is the proper loudness for listening?

                  Whatever floats YOUR boat.

There is no one volume.  Brian Eno made recordings where he prefers 

the volume level to drop off completely.  Then there's Kuma's Corner, a bar in the Avondale neighborhood in Chicago where the proper volume is ear bleeding, brain damaging loud.  Fantastic burgers and beer and drinks choices.  Just bring earplugs and come on a warm night when you can sit outside.  You'll still need the earplugs though.

@mapman That’s certainly true. I have a higher end system in a medium size superb listening room. I prefer listening in the 80s db range with 100db maximum peaks, depending on music. No distortion problems. I can also enjoy music at low levels and in-between due to the great tonal/colorful sound as well as relative dynamics of the recording. This is more true of my classical music than jazz and then of my rock music. There is a range of loudness which is preferred for typical listening versus background listening. I occasionally listen to music laying down on a couch with the music playing in the 60 or 70 db range. Can’t sleep because the dynamics, color and resolution of the performances keep me aware/awake.

It’s good to have a great audio system and room. More levels of enjoyment.

P.S. I was tested last year, at age 66, with a frequency range up to 16kHz, exceeding the typical 66 year old (limit of test equipment range).  I have avoided 100+db sounds all my life (except cap guns as a child), no rock concerts or using heavy equipment without hearing protection.  80db listening over 6+ decades did not negatively impact my hearing, minimum listening time is 2 hours nightly and up to 10 hours studying/reading in my teens and 20s. 

"A whisper is about 30 dB, normal conversation is about 60 dB, and a motorcycle engine running is about 95 dB. Noise above 70 dB over a prolonged period of time may start to damage your hearing. Loud noise above 120 dB can cause immediate harm to your ears." CDC

Assuming above is true, seems normal conversation 60 dB is minimum to hear into the music and maybe 70 dB is the safe recommended max.  Anything above that and you get into risk/reward, and risk tolerance is highly subjective.  I'm risk adverse and am very protective of my hearing from damaging sounds - excessive dB levels, not the sound of a nagging spouse :)

Take live piano as a reference from quiet to the loudest sound. This listening range is ideal.

Better ask to my wife, she will convince you that all you need is a 1 watts amp 

I made and setup my system to sound very good at low levels. About once a week my wife will spend a day with one of her friends, and that is the day I will turn it up a bit. Not deafening, but a fairly healthy volume. 

Those of you who constantly listen to levels 85 db and higher and have a spouse, either she's deaf, or doesn't care. Lol

How about you all put away the SPL meters and turn the music volume up or down to the point you enjoy the listening experience.

If the level you enjoy listening at bothers someone else, put on earphones.

 That depends on how many glasses of wine you had!

Since moving to an apartment I’m restricted to 80 dB.  I do not enjoy rock and blues as mush as when I played at 90 dB. However here’s the question .  Are we measuring dB as A or C rated values?  

I have found 80-85 DB is best in my room.  

Until the police is knocking at your front door

Play it really loud and go outside to listen to it...as Neil Young yelled, "more barn." 

The db levels are informative to a point. What’s the ambient noise level of your room?

I don’t have to listen LOUD to get it, but if I crank it a bit more than mild, I’ll energize the room with the subs and can get more. It is not necessarily better, I listen to tonality, texture and a "filled in" dimensional sound- I usually start with the midrange anyway, if that isn’t grainless and transparent, I’m out. But in terms of volume level, depending on how loudly a particular level is cut into a specific pressing, there’s an ideal loudness level within a range. Beyond that, you aren’t going to get more. Is it a system failing? if so, I don’t care at this point.

Be happy, don’t worry. Or something.

I agree with Paul McGowan. I don’t pay attention to db levels as my guide. My guide is what the particular music should be played at to be in proportion if it were live, and per where I am ‘sitting’ for the performance. Of course, I play a lot of acoustic music, where that is more easily defined in ‘size’.

....just kidding.

All the best,
Nonoise

For me it is just before the pass labs needle begins to move unless I've got a snoot full and the woman is away. Peace and Nirvana through music!

I typically listen at 75-80 dBSPL C weighted. 

@chester_bunger re your question about Android SLM app, I believe they are problematic without calibration.  Unlike iPhones, which all use the same mic calibration, android phones do not adhere to a standardized mic sensitivity spec. 

I use Decibel X Pro on a Samsung Galaxy S9+, and using a calibrated Sound Level Meter I found I needed to introduce almost 15 dB of calibration offset to get an accurate SPL reading! Fortunately this app allows for calibration...not all do.

If this is not an option, even a relatively inexpensive Sound Level Meter is a useful tool to have for someone interested in audio.  I would recommend one with both A and C weighting, and Fast and Slow response.  They are available on Amazon for under $40.  While not lab grade, they would be much better than an uncalibrated Android app.

Oh and get rid of the reverberations in the room.

                              Couldn't agree more!

                 Room treatment = absolute necessity

Things sound better than louder they are. Just below the point where it gets uncomfortable and where are you notice distortion. 

Treat yourself every once in a while. But overall keep it around 75 because it does damage hearing over Time.

Oh and get rid of the reverberations in the room.

 

@snilf,

Frequencies below 500Hz are felt as well as heard, see Bone Conduction.😎 Article

Mike

Whatever volume I happen to enjoy listening at at the time is the proper volume. 

60-75 dBA during the days and 40-65 during the nights. Anything beyond 75dBA in my listening position in room becomes too noisy. And, yes, my best half will come to give me a friendly reminder. Also, when I listen with foobar2000 / laptop at 60-75 dBA, I will turn on the EQ with 2-6 dB up in the bass bandwidths (below 110 Hz) and 2-3 dB up in the treble bandwidths (above 7kHz) to possibly reach the equal loudness contour levels. At night, these SPLs are raised to 4-9 dB in the bass bands and 3-4 dB in the treble bands.

I mostly listen to jazz on vinyl, average 80db with peaks of 96db-sh

75 avg/dB 85 dB peaks, treated room with a 24 dB noise floor A weighted 

Huh...what??...speak up

@snilf Wrote:

Thank you, @ditusa. These are very informative links.

For one thing, low frequencies are felt as well as heard. Surely you (ditusa) are not advocating for measurements that ignore low—and high, for that matter—frequencies!

Your welcome. No, I am not advocating for measurements that ignore low and high frequencies. The Department of Labor bulletin #334 I posted about OSHA standards is their standard for safe levels, they don’t care about audio, like you and I do. I.e. full frequency bandwidth from 20Hz to 20KHz. They only care about safety, bass frequencies below 100Hz are not as detrimental to our hearing as frequencies above 100Hz. You are correct, frequencies below 500Hz are felt as well as heard, so yes C-weighted dB(C) would be better for audio.

FWIW, I bought a pair of JBL 4343’s in 1979 for my home stereo, see JBL brochure below last page top right hand corner caution:

Mike

https://www.lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/specs/pro-speakers/1977-4343.htm

 

Those two items on each side of your head will be the guide as to how loud you can go with the sound. Your room will also dictate this and whether you're listening alone, what time of day/night you are listening, etc. If you plan on listening into old age as I am, then don't go overboard on the volume control!

Some very good insight here, I enjoyed reading through this thread understanding there's always the factors of the individual person, system and room.

 

Personally, I find myself in 70-75db as a sweet spot for most types of music although I'll go slightly above that for classical to feel the scale and peaks. 

Thank you, @ditusa. These are very informative links.

Note that, according to your third link, "The A-weighted sound level discriminates against low frequencies.... In this setting, the meter primarily measures in the 500 to 10,000 Hz range. It is the weighting scale most commonly used for OSHA and DEQ regulatory measurements. The C-weighted sound level does not discriminate against low frequencies and measures uniformly over the frequency range of 30 to 10,000 Hz." This is just what I maintained in my earlier post, except that A-weighting actually cuts off at 500 Hz, rather than 100 Hz—which, of course, makes my point even more important.

However, I will admit to some puzzlement about the clause I elided: that A-weighting "discriminates against low frequencies, in a manner similar to the human ear." In my experience, audio system measurements are almost always given with C-weighting. Sometimes this is explicit, but even when the weighting filter is not specified, the numbers seem to be C-weighted. After all, we do certainly prize systems, and speakers, that produce sound below 500 Hz! To eliminate these sounds from the meter’s measurement because the human ear is less sensitive to them would not be what an audiophile would want to do. For one thing, low frequencies are felt as well as heard. Surely you (ditusa) are not advocating for measurements that ignore low—and high, for that matter—frequencies!

In any case, when I see the dB levels folks on this forum cite as preferred listening levels, and then try to match them on my system, I find that the higher levels (90 and above) MUST be C-weighted. My ears begin to bleed when I approach 90 dBA, but 90 dBC is just excitingly loud.

@snilf Wrote:

Be aware, by the way, that "weighting" on SPL meters is crucial. Most are "A" weighted (note that the OSHA standard ditusa cites is given as "dBA").

See the tutorials below Decibel A, B and C:

Mike

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/decibel-d_59.html

https://www.vernier.com/til/3500

optimal level totally depends on the situation... including other people in the room, your purpose, time of day, are you engaged in other activities, etc. ... and depends on the speakers, etc., too.

some speakers need to be "turned up" to come alive... I'd never want such speakers.  Others do very well at even quiet volumes; I'm constantly impressed by the dynamism and richness coming from the Klipsch Heresy at very low volumes, for example, and some of the most interesting listening experiences I've had with the Epi 100 over the years have been at low volumes late at night: they have clarity and sparkle.

Yes. Another way to say it is the optimal level is the loudest you can go for extended periods without risk of damaging hearing. Dynamic peaks in the mid to upper 80s db level starts to breach into that territory. A sound meter app like decibel on iPhone is your friend! When you start peaking in the yellow zone you are where you want to be in most cases ….. beyond the green and short of red.

 

 

I have always asked the question if one can measure dynamics by a decibel number. There is a certain point in volume that makes the music come alive. You can hear the instrument separation, you can feel the kick drum punch you in the chest, and you can listen for hours with no fatigue. Yes the room, the room treatment, and the components will all play their part but I still think there is a low and high range you can measure that will always work and achieve that sweet dynamic sound stage or nirvana. 

For me, between 60 and 70 db typically. 75 db is the most I ever want or need.

At what ever volume makes you happy, but as others have said, louder volumes can produce hearing damage, so if you do play at loud to very loud volumes take frequent breaks and keep your listening sessions short.

When instrument volume sounds like what your hear it to be like in a live environment?  Except for rock concerts which may be detrimental to your hearing at the supposed actual volume.

Some approximations are below.

Generally, an acoustic guitar will put out between 70 and 90 decibels.

Piano (normal practice): 60 to 70 db. Piano (fortissimo): 84 to 103 db. Oboe: 90 to 94 db.

Cello ranges from 82-92 dB.

Violin ranges from 84-103 dB.

Chamber music in a small auditorium range from 75-85 dB.

The trumpet can range between 80 and 110 decibels, while the trombone can peak at around 115 decibels.

A drum set and cymbals is 119 dB loud on average but can range between 90 and 130dB (decibels) depending on what instruments are being played.

Generally, 75db is more than enough for me in my room, which is still on the way to being better treated.  Once it is treated properly, I may change my mind.

I like 70  to 85 dB.  Does not sound as good and feels pushed on me if it gets louder.  

I've found that Paul McGowan has a point: especially with acoustic music (solo, unamplified voice; solo acoustic instruments or small ensembles; piano), the volume usually sounds best when it reproduces accurately the volume that instrument would produce in your environment. Therefore, even a piano can easily be played too loud; if your room is small, a grand piano would overwhelm it, and not just by taking up too much space. One of the things a good audio system should do is to accurately recreate the size of the instruments being played. Perceived size is not entirely a matter of SPL, but they are correlated.

When it comes to amplified music (rock, most jazz, electronic, etc.), this principle is harder to apply. As long as your amp isn't driven into clipping and the high frequencies still sound sweet, your pain threshold is about right for a band like Tool or Massive Attack. After all, that's where the volume would be in a live show.

Be aware, by the way, that "weighting" on SPL meters is crucial. Most are "A" weighted (note that the OSHA standard ditusa cites is given as "dBA"). Most laptop SPL meters I've seen, and most inexpensive hand-held meters on eBay or Amazon, are ONLY "A" weighted. What this means is that frequencies below 100 Hz are NOT registered at all! So if you're listening at, say, 70 dB with an "A" weighted SPL meter, you're probably hearing music that would measure 80-90 dB in "C" weighting, or even more. I learned this the hard way.

                             How LARGE do you like your music?

     Unless a system can cleanly reproduce all the information (well engineered/recorded in an environment with good acoustics and mic placement) in a quality cut, to the original/intended dB level; It's listener will never hear that information.

              ie, regarding, "depth": the reflection off the venue's back wall.

      Of course: familiarity with the venue in which a recording was made,  would go a long way with regards to recognizing whether what one's hearing is actually accurate.    NOT that that's a necessity, when it comes to the enjoyment of one's music, BUT- having that knowledge, one can be confident that their other recordings are also being faithfully reproduced.

       'Checkerboard Lounge Live Chicago 1981' (on vinyl) is a favorite of mine, far as being able to hear the room, especially between songs.

        Especially, in the softer cuts of Diana Krall's 'Live in Paris' vinyl (45 RPM/180 Gram), I find the Olympia Theatre's back wall reflections nicely reproduced (with accurate depth).

         Back the the size-of-your-music thing: I turn my sound up slowly (a song at a time, to acclimate the ears to higher dB levels, without having them shut down), until my image height reflects where I imagine/know the performers to have been, when recorded.     Again: a system has to be able to reach that level cleanly/without distortion, or: it's just LOUD (iow: noise).

        It's been my experience: seated in the better/more expensive, front and center seats; it's easy to hear and locate individual voices (human or instrumental), on a stage and seldom would the level be low enough for some to consider, "safe enough".     Yet: no one complains, because it's clean sound (just big).

                    OF COURSE: different strokes, for different folks.

                                          Happy listening!

I have learned that the best way for any system is to turn it up till it starts to get harsh, then turn the volume down till everything comes into FOCUS like a lens.You can tell pretty quickly. I heard a LOT of systems at AXPONA 2023 with my wife and we both thought most systems we heard were too loud for the room. But, there are people coming in and out, talking, etc. So it is limited to say the least.

I am surprised how loud some are able to listen.

I use a dB meter, C-weighted, fast response.

75 dB peaks when my wife is sleeping in over the weekends.

85 dB peaks after she has joined the living, and it is LOUD to me.

 

For me 70 - 85 dba and I am more than happy.

Though this won't include Rock or some Acid Jazz, it is simple for me. The perfect level is found when you look for the soft passages, often found quite noticeable in classical music, and set that at a comfortable but yet soft volume i those portions of the piece, the rest takes care of itself. This after a while and a little practice, this  will come naturally. For those that think that music is good if it is loud, I can only offer my pity, Volume has noting to do with sound quality, with one exception. My speakers and I assume most quality speakers don't even 'Turn On' till they get a certain power level. This means that Yes they will play sounds at lower power levels but their excellence doesn't shine until that minimum threshold is reached. This is going to be different for every speaker made and is like in my example above, you set your volume higher to achieve this quality threshold, you may be pushing the limits of crazy when the more powerful portions of a piece come along.
What does all of that mean? It's totally up to your own particular taste and what wifie will permit before she gets the cast iron skillet out to clobber you with.

It’s really up to you. I listen at a variety of different levels based on what I want to hear, how I want to hear it, if it’s emotional to me, if there are other people listening with me, etc etc. Also listen so that you can hear the music clearly, define the soundstage, and enjoy the material. 

I agree with mapman in that I tend to listen in the 85 to 90 dba range. 

@chester_bunger Sure! I have the NIOSH SLM app on my iPhone and iPad. I’m sure they make one for Android. I think it works well.