Townshend.
Turntable Isolation
Im looking for an isolation base for my VPI Signature 21. My listening room is over my garage and a times my footfalls cause the table to skip. What have you used that works?
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Fantastic- glad the OP solved the footfall problem For hippo dancers, maybe something like this |
Well if you can’t do a wall shelf why not do a hanging shelf attached to the ceiling. I had a few customers who successfully implemented a hanging shelf for their TT.
Alternately go and buy a Sota turntable - their hanging suspension provides phenomenal isolation at a modest price. |
Update on the Townshend platform: initially the wrong cells were installed on the platform per the weight of the turntable. I was then sent a set of the corner platforms for my rack. This was the solution to a number of problems. My footfall issues are gone and the overall sound has improved with a quieter background and a wider soundstage. my entire system has seemed to benefit from the corners. I have moved the platform over to my DAC. I am so astounded by the benefits of the platform and corners, I have ordered the podiums to go under my speakers. I'm totally bought in to the benefits of the Townshend isolation products. A huge shoutout to John Davis Hannant for his tireless customer service and his dedication in getting me the solution I needed. |
I had the trouble too with loose floor. I created a suspended platform held up by bungee cords attached to 4 small pillars at each corner. The idea is to put an appropriately sized board held up only by the four bungee cords threaded through those corner posts. I drilled a hole into each 2 inch by 10 inch post so the bungee can be pulled tighter or looser to perfectly level the platform. I have lock sliders on cords to hold them in place. Sorry no pics but I think you've got the idea. Now my wife can dance through the room, the bass can thunder, and my cheap turntable is playing very clearly. With turntables isolation and vibration cancellation is everything. This thing works great! Build frame first to hold posts securely far enough away to allow about 14 inches of bungee per pillar. Connect bungee underneath board. Thread through post and done. You should be able to push turntable and see it gently sway and quickly damp down any movement. Level adjustment by simply pulling bungee shorter or looser through pre drilled hole per post. If you build square base first, securely attach four pillars at corners alls well. be sure bungees don't touch plinth. Only attach on bottom of hovering board. Success! Dance away!! |
@elevick I used an original Sapphire for 40 years and a Cosmos now. I am well familiar with the stability of these turntables. The hammer demonstration always amazes people. Hanging the turntable works great as long as the ceiling does not double as the upstairs floor. If the shelf and turntable are heavy enough it is much harder to get it swinging. If you have a good arm swinging will not bother it at all, it might make you dizzy.
It seems we have a bunch of Sota users here. Some of us know a good turntable when we see one:-) |
Townshend does not solve the footfall problem, but eliminated vibrations and improved the sound incredibly. To solve the footfall problem (which interestingly enough, the Townshend platform created due to some wave interference), I had to put the table (which is very light, a Rega P8) on a wall mounted shelf as Max Townshend told me I would have to. RIP - he was a great guy to talk to, kind of like a mad scientist who said you can have worse sound with no footfalls or tip toe with his platform, or put his platform on top of a wall shelf for the best of everything. If you can't do a wall shelf, you're stuck with tiptoeing or buying a more expensive table, or putting up with it (not a great option). |
Similar issues in my home. I had a VPI Classic 2. The footfall issues weren’t as pronounced as most other tables I tried, but still there. I now have a Sota Sapphire and zero footfall issues. My Technics SL-1200 MK2 is also a champ at ignoring footfalls after upgrading the feet with Mnpctech feet. You might look into one of the newer Technics models. |
Knownothing, I haven't played with the Mapleshade system. I'm sure it's in the same price realm as a Townsend but a lot bulkier and way flashier looking. Those cork & rubber blocks are ok but most of mine sit unused. Mijostyn-Hanging a table, really? Swinging in the wind... You would love my Sota, bring a bowling ball and pins. See if you can get it to skip. I dare you.
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I hate to say I told you so. Sorry about that. I guess I did not comment until after you had ordered the Townsend. All those feet thingies are also garbage. To properly isolate a turntable the suspension needs to be tuned below 3 hz, three bounces every second. That is so slow you can count it. Try this experiment. Put the turntable on the floor. If the footfall problem improves at all a shorter more stable rack will also improve the problem. Then down the line you can either replace the floor or get a Sota Sapphire, Nova or Cosmos. Easy choice I think. Hanging the turntable is another viable solution. People laugh at it, but it will reliable vanquish the footfall problem. All you need is a drill and a ladder. Get a big butcher block carving board, 8 hooks, chains and turnbuckles. |
@elevick have you tried Mapleshade’s complete vibration control system with the wooden platform and the brass footers along with the cork/rubber blocks? I am not suggesting that the blocks alone are adequate. Not that a VPI table really needs more mass, but the wood platform adds significant mass in between the blocks and turntable feet/brass footers that helps reduce vibration coming from both the table and from the floor/room. It is also both less expensive and less elegant than the Townshend platform, which is within the OP’s budget. But some folks may like the quaint funkiness of the Mapleshade design. kn |
Going a bit further than what @elliottbnewcombjr recommended, you can go with Mapleshade’s complete vibration control system. A bit much visually, but I have found it to be effective, both in protecting from footfalls and cleaning up the treble at higher listening volumes. Also considerably cheaper than the Townshend or some other solutions. https://shop.mapleshadestore.com/Vibration-Control-Systems_c_23.html kn |
If your problem is a floor that moves when you walk, get yourself a turntable wall-mount. Because you have a VPI Signature 21, I'd recommend going to a local shop that does metal fabrication and have one made for you. Those VPI tables are very heavy. |
@polkalover I am a advocate of Solid Tech 'Feet of Silence'. I have these as footers that superseded all others used on a particular weight of TT. Those who I have loaned these to but wished for a little more weight to be supported have fabricated their own suspension platforms based on the design/SME Design. I have heard these DIY Version in use against the users previous footers and their DIY Types of suspension platforms, and am totally convinced that everything the ' 'Feet of Silence' can create as a sonic improvement/attraction is present. . If a Densified Wood was used as the Platform I am certain these DIY versions will have been a further improved design. |
that isn’t correct. First of all, your design means there is some physical contact between the plates, if not the top goes shooting off to the side. The other thing is it is not a magic carpet suspended in air. There is a force from the lower magnets pushing up on the ones on the top plate. Shake the bottom and the top reacts. It is NOT 100% isolation. it may be damped, but it is absolutely not 100% isolated. and lastly, there is the question of leveling it. If the load on top is not symmetrical it will tilt. Not good for a turntable.
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Or build a plywood box at least 6 inches deep and wide enough and long enough to accommodate your TT with a few inches to spare on all 4 sides. Then fill it with beach sand. Then sit your TT on a slab of wood, any wood, that is resting on the surface of the sand. If that doesn’t kill your problem, put springs under the sandbox. |
There are only two platforms that will work reliably, the MinusK and the Vibraplane. This assumes that your equipment rack or cabinet is laterally stable. Movement straight up and down is easy for the tonearm to handle. Lateral or sideways deflections are always a serious problem. When you walk on your floor it does not deflect straight up and down. It forms an arc which causes the rack or cabinet to sway. No turntable, not even a good suspended one can handle that. With a bad floor the first thing you do is keep the rack as short as possible like coffee table height. This decreases the distance the top of the rack will sway. Wall racks usually help but you say that is out of the question. Your budget puts the MinusK and Vibraplane out of the running. The turntables best able to handle a bad floor will be the Basis Inspiration, the SMEs and the suspended Sotas. You are more than likely wasting your money with the Townsend. I think you should probably get the turntable closer to the floor and make sure the rack is very sturdy without any tendency to rack. After that start saving for a good suspended turntable, The Sota Sapphire comes to mind. The reason the above turntables are best is because the chassis is suspended by the springs. This is a way more stable situation than the chassis sitting on the springs which can actually make the problem worse. I have seen the Sapphire successfully quell some pretty severe footfall problems. This is also another good reason to avoid longer tonearms. In the meanwhile I would practice your tip toeing. I forgot about one solution, suspending the turntable from the ceiling. You hang a shelf from the ceiling via 4 chains, 3 with turnbuckles for level adjustment. The holes for hooks in the ceiling can be easily patched. This is also an extremely cost effective solution. Chains, hooks, shelves and elbow grease might cost you a whopping $50.00. This also assumes there is nobody walking around upstairs. |
I had the same issue with a turntable in the bedroom. Putting a record on a walking around would make it skip.not the mention the impact on the sound quality too. After trying many things I bought a couple of heavy duty brackets online and 20 sq inch by 1.5 inch plywood board to make my own bracket. This thing can handle about 75 lbs. much better than the so many commercial brackets I reviewed. Works a charm even when I dance to rock music now! Now I have also added isopucks to the bottom of the table; however I don’t think they are adding much more to what I already had with the wall mounted brackets. |
Another thumbs up for the Townshend platforms. The Symposium Segue ISO shelf was the one that finally eliminated footfall issues for my Xerxes tt and eventually led me to Townshend. My next purchase was the Townshend Podiums for my speakers and was such a revelation. Now also have their Platform under the cdp. I think you will be amazed by the isolation for your table. |
@dogberry so if I stay outside of the box, and I let Brian Wilson do the raking, I should be good? |
@grislybutter I believe that method lets only Good Vibrations through....though you have to do the concentric circles with a tiny rake in the right direction. |
Isonoe feet. They're like a 4x4 offroad suspension for your turntable. |
When Idler Drive Damping become a buzz topic, Squash Balls and Half Squash Balls become a regular used footer, as well as a concealed part in some of the Commercial available Plinths. What was learned as time went on, was that a spent of its energy Squash Ball was for many DIYers chosen as the better option, it is worthwhile visiting a local squash court and seeing if a batch of spent balls can be picked up. These can be used as a comparison to a new squash ball, and will again be a much cheaper option that going immediately for something like the Ginko Cloud, which is seemingly using a version of a method that had popularity in the 90's and 00's. |
