So much of it all comes down to your budget. I’ve had numbers of tube amps That I’ve loved like the VTL Ichibon’s however, I don’t want that much heat and tubes to maintain. I use an auto bias S 200 amp now and I’m thrilled with the push button ease You’re never gonna get the holographic sound out of solid state that you get out of tubes. A good newer, Pre Amp, like a Conrad Johnson ET5 or something that has one tube is perfect. In my mind. I still have solid state back ups but there’s no need to run those amps unless I have catastrophic failure & less is more with regard to Tube’s. Something that has for kt120 tubes is plenty but it’s also all about matching as I don’t like EL34 tubes with my Harbeth. It’s too Syrupy, but with horns, it would be great My gear plays rock ‘n’ roll. Perfect but I have a nice Rel sub to tighten that bottom end. Enjoy whatever you do
Solid state. Based on my amplification (Yamaha RX-Z9 in Pure Direct vs Melton P/P KT-88s) the highs are so much crisper and articulated through the Great Heils. Levels are matched to within 0.1 dB.
Yes, definitely tastes change over time. I climbed mountains, jumped out of airplanes, and dove below 120’ in the ocean. As I got older I more in tune with more subtle and nuanced sound. Street racing of one’s youth becomes a passion for high performance Farari and Maserati later in life… one learns. I don’t like cars… but Kurt Vonnegut has been replaced by Tolstoy and Henry James for sure. Onkyo replaced by Audio Research.
"However, my hard-core audio friends (20+ people) have almost all made the transition to a predominantly tube system during our shared 20-30+ years of audio journey. Maybe that tells something."
This is an interesting comment, in that I not only went through it myself doing the gamut of cheap SS, better SS, good SS, hybrid, and ultimately on to good tubes, but my journey also mirrors the majority of serious audio guys who’s journeys I’ve witnessed. When I was younger, you would have had a hard time convincing me that lower powered tube gear in triode mode would sound better to me at some point than my bullet proof 250 watt per channel SS amp! 😉
We all have unique sensitivities that require a music system that can uniquely satisfy our tastes....and tastes do change, There’s no wrong way to do it if you get there, but there is always the chance that you’ll still morph towards a different sound. Some people want their systems to sound like a dance club, others want it to sound like a symphony hall. Neither is wrong, but we all need to pick the sound that best matches our reference, whether it be row 10 center, front row balcony, or the mash pit.
I think it's up to system synergy - some speakers match solids, while other match tubes. Clashing of egos and disappointment happens when people do not understand this, and think you can go on the dance floor in a heavy diver's gear, assuming that because it has binding posts you can hook it up to anything and live happily forever.
Also, it depends what one wants, what sort of representation: a more mechanical or a more humane view, a 3rd person or a first person observer effect.
Plus, there's fine SS and trash SS, and there's fine tubes and trash tube gear.... like the karateka or the MMA fighter will win. (The better prepared fighter will win, regardless the background.)
In addition, tastes change over time. Younger people are usually happy with solid states, and as their habits and listening skills mature they go for tubes. If the listening skills decline (hearing damage - a case for most men over 50) then solids will stay as a more wide-spread option. However, my hard-core audio friends (20+ people) have almost all made the transition to a predominantly tube system during our shared 20-30+ years of audio journey. Maybe that tells something.
You can run a good tube preamp into either tube or solid state power amps, so there’s no reason NOT to run a tube preamp if you get a good one. But power amps are a different story. I’ve had more than one friend spend Large Cash on a tube power amp solution that just didn’t work for them. BIG BUX tube amps.
I see the problem as being one of matching the tube amp to the loudspeaker. Some loudspeakers are much easier to drive than others for tube amps. I saw a recent ad of a guy selling off his beloved Marantz 8B power amp which he used to drive Altec 604E loudspeakers. That’s a well-matched choice.
But some loudspeakers are a much more difficult thing to drive and a tube amp may well not be the right choice. Most tube amps have only modest amounts of power, which also limits your choice of loudspeakers. Many who run tube amps use them to drive horn systems, which is a problem right there. Horns are flared pipes and are inherently resonant and colored, especially in the mid-range.
Today a lot of serious audiophiles are getting into multi-amplification with active crossovers, or powered loudspeaker systems like the Dutch & Dutch 8c, or some of the powered KEF systems. Systems like that have already made the amplifier choice for you.
One of my all-time favorite loudspeakers, the big Avalon systems, have extremely complex passive crossovers and don’t play well with most amplifiers. Even with a big, powerful tube amp, they probably wouldn’t do well. They don’t even like many solid state power amps. Their reputation is that they only play well with Rowland Research amps and they ain’t cheap.
Lastly, tube power amps are expensive to buy and expensive to maintain as the output tubes wear out and are costly to replace.
Get a tube preamp you like and make the power amp and speaker choices a different issue.
And of course, your budget has a lot to do with this and you didn't say anything there. My reservations about tube amps aside, one of the most magically musical systems I ever heard was a pair of late 1970's vintage KEF Calinda loudspeakers being powered by a Marantz 8B amp.
Tubes in main system with efficient speakers, and big Class A power and pre in the other two systems, one with conventional speakers and one using electrostats.
Those who can do, those who can’t teach.
Those that can do both coach.
@spaceguitaristI am an MSME and have an MBA but you would not want me as an accountant. So because you play guitar, listen to the stereo and teach makes you impervious to making an ignorant post?
No one said you are ignorant just your ranting about tube amplifiers.
Of course, as stated above : I'm an ignorant (I'm just an Hifi audio enthusiast since 40 years, professional Jazz musician and teacher since 30 years, endorsed demonstrator for several manufacturers, electronic engineer by my studies, and also administrator of several high fidelity discussion groups, .... but I just discovered that I'm an ignorant compared to some of the experts around here, as it seems).
The highest classic way by far is a good SS amplifier ,and Vacuum tube preamp .
please note: buying a good preamp with plenty of power supply power
the biggest mistakes are and ones the biggest inside if you see a round silver volume pot or attenuator -Run , why for its just a $20 volume pot with metal plastic wipers, you want a resistor ladder type, or relay control ,you loose a lot of low level detail with the cheap alps or Bourne type . I know for I owned a Audio store for 10 years . The power supply too is very important, for dynamic swings and soundstaging. Many times in lesser preamps when the performance gets complex and the spl levels a bit high on less expensive units say on average $$3k or less
the soundstage depth collapses and image starts to get thinner and loses focus .vs a good quality unit.
please keep this in mind . Spending a minimum of $5k is a good rule of thumb
And make sure you have at least the 2 items mentioned , balanced input to output also truly makes a Sonic improvement.
Don't forget to include hybrids. Clean background and oomph can come from SS, but adding tubes on the preamp can be the best of both worlds. At least consider.
My Pass XA-25 has a "tube-like" sound in that it's capable of making me like listening to it. Even when it's off it puts out a vibe, as does the tube Had amp as that thing is beautiful to look at. The Pass amp looks like an industrial slab, but it is easier to dust.
@spaceguitarist … Use tube only if you prefer Low Fi and enjoy this vintage sound. :)
While there are a lot of ways to generalize stuff in high end audio. Different people may be drawn to different sound characteristics. But well, that statement is just wrong. Some of the finest gear in high end audio is tubed.
I have been a all tube guy for the last 40+ years but I decided to try a SS integrated. I bought a Boulder 866 and could not be happier. Very musical and incredibly quiet. SS can be very satisfying.
@spaceguitarist: It’s not a good practice to try to speak for others who have different tastes, opinions, and situations than your own. I ultimately trust my ears, not marketing or the opinions of others. Do I take the opinions of others into consideration? Yes, I do. But the final determinant is my own listening. I favor vinyl played through tube equipment because it sounds best to me. I also stream music, and it sounds great, but, to ME, not as great as vinyl (in my system). You are welcome to share your experiences, but telling others their preferences are “wrong”, because you say so is arrogant and presumptuous. Think about what you wrote from the perspective of a reader who has a different viewpoint. It’s offensive.
For anyone looking to get into tube amplification I would suggest that they start with a tube preamp. Look for one that has a low output impedance so can be matched with either SS or tube amp. Choice of amplifier is highly driven by the speaker in use. I use a tube preamp with either a tube or a SS amplifier. Enjoy both.
Another vote for the McIntosh MA 352 Hybrid; plus if you decide it’s not for you, you should be able to sell/trade without losing much compared to some other options.
I think what you are driving is the biggest determining factor for whether tube/SS output stage is right for you-- if your speakers are not the most efficient, I think most people would agree that you'll likely be better off with SS with plenty of headroom. If you're driving speakers with at least 92dB or greater sensitivity, then I think you could go either way on the output stage, depending on your preferences. There's really no substitute for an in person demo, ideally on your own or very similar equipment. In the end, there's always going to be the critically important subjective component--- what sounds good to YOU.
This might come as a shock for some but its impossible to design amps or preamps to favor a certain genre of music. If the amp is bad on massed strings it will be bad on electric guitars with heavy drums too.
I agree. Just as you can’t design speakers for certain genre of music.
i think Tubes are better for Jazz and Classical music like Vaughn Williams string works where you can recreate that ethereal sound you get with a live symphony. for Rock its solid state all the way, so ideally 2 amps are needed.
This might come as a shock for some but its impossible to design amps or preamps to favor a certain genre of music. If the amp is bad on massed strings it will be bad on electric guitars with heavy drums too.
I have a tube (hybrid) system and a ss system in the same room the differences are huge, the tube system sounds much better, warmer, more magic. The ss system has much less noise and sounds more accurate (true to the original recording). In recording studios like Capitol they use analog mixers and then record to 192khz ProTools digital. Tubes are warmer a lot like your favorite blanket and your Moms hugs. SS is colder, cleaner and more to the point like your rich aunt who has that house that never had anything out of place.
My professional mixing is SS, my listening for fun is tube. But I'm getting fed up with changing all these stupid tubes and not really knowing when they start loosing their magic it happens slowly and soon enough you are listening to an expensive system that sounds not as good as it should.
Both tube and solid state audio components have their benefits. My tube gear is euphonic sounding, whereas my solid state gear tends to be more analytical.
Hybrid components can offer the best of both worlds. It all depends on what type of other components you’re using in your audio system. In particular, what speakers you have.
Depends on your personal preferences of music choice. By my opinion tube amps couldn’t handle high dynamics of some genres. Metallicas Hardwired Album could be used as a tester. Try to listen to it on tube amp and compare to SS and you’ll understand what I’m talking about.
10 tube Audio-GD pre and GaN 400 Amp...nice combo for powerful sound w/ any speaker.....also use the pre going into a 2.8 watt Decware Zen triode integrated ( use the Decware as an Amp Only) for finesse sound of pure musical enjoyment with high efficient speakers. Enjoy Both. Good luck to you.
In my main system my tube preamp and ss amp gives me the tube smoothness without compromising bass slam and articulation. However, my other vintage system is all tube, and I get very good results from that because the amps are McIntosh MC30s and they are unlike any other tube amps. I’m fortunate to have both, but if I had one to pick for reliability only it would be the solid state amp and tubed pre.
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