Streamer Upgrade

Congratulations! Cool. The Yggdrasil is a great DAC, glad to hear the Rose complements it in your system.

Update for anyone that cares: I ended up getting a HIFI Rose 250. I don't need the DAC as I have the Yggy but the display and deal I got, I figured I'd try it. I'm super happy that I did! This is only day one but has been a significant upgrade. One that I was unsure about months ago when I made this post but I'm super happy with how this turned out. Thank you all for your input! I appreciate you all!

OP,

Congradulations. The Yggdrasil is a really good DAC for the new component price. Obviously, used, even better. It is best to spend time with each new piece of equipment, enjoy the upgrade and become intimately familiar with your systems new sound.

The Yggdrasil sets you up well to purchase a high end streamer and get the most out of it when you get there.

Happy listening.

Just wanted to say that I appreciate all of the feedback on this. I ended up picking up a used Yggdrasil and am in love. Still going to do a streamer upgrade in the not too distant future but I'm really loving my system at the moment. Thanks again!

-Will

I love spinning records and enjoy the sound quality. Been streaming since the early days started with a PC, went to Cocktail Audio unit better then PC, then Roon which is better then Cocktail unit now with Lumin T2 best yet for me. Still play plenty of records but this T2 matches my records. C2600 tube pre, MC275's in parallel, VPI TT to Klipsch Forte III's no need to list CD, Tuner, Cassette:) 

@silverfoxvtx1800 Naim Uniti Atom is ok and the Nova ok plus plus for what they are.  I have an Atom (for the output wattage).  Obviously the Naim Uniti Atom isn’t separates but could you get computable separates for the price? I’m not touching that one? Bueller? Bueller/?

Willg,

Since you have the Yggi on the way, I'd definitely give it a shot with the Node. I have mine wired directly from my switch with a Supra Cat 8+ ethernet cable, and go from the Node to the Yggi with a nice USB cable (again I use Supra Excalibur). For my taste it was "almost enough".....until I added a DDC

@ghdprentice thanks for the advice! It is close and is hard wired. That made a biggggggg difference. 

Love it @malibu457 

If you have the budget for it, you should check out the Cary Audio DMS series that begins with DMS-600.  I have the original DMS-500 which sounds awesome.  They are really leaders in that technology and it works flawlessly and the DAC would be worth the price tag alone.  Good luck with your journey.

my Bluesound 2i was sounding outstanding last night. i upgraded the stock power cord and use an external DAC.

OP,

Congratulations on the Yggi ( I evaluated DACs for a friend… bought a Gungnir to test my theory and then got him a Yggdrasil). Remember it will need a couple hundred hours of breakin. I used to own a Aurlic Aries G2. It is hard to criticize, it has a great interface. I prefer Aurender… but they are both good. I prefer a box to plunk down and use instead of screwing around with other software (like Roon). I want and audio system that just works… like my Aurender.

Just in case this comes up. If your router is not near your system (which is why I bought the Aries, it wasn’t)… just buy a wall wart wifi extender and plug it in next to your streamer. I have a fantastic system running this way… and know of many others. I found the Aries really unreliable… as far as signal, needed constant rebooting… and the sound quality is much better in my two Aurender. Ok, I admit it, I did not have a good experience with my Aries.

@willg1985 Unless they recently changed gears, Auralic doesn't support Roon. 

IMHO check out Sonore Rendu line of streamers. They are all Roon Ready. I've moved up from a low cost microRendu to the opticalRendu and haven't heard anything that beats unless you're ready to spend on top models like Grimm or higher Aurender models. Cheers,

Spencer

Thanks @adasdad. I actually just bought a Schiit Yggdrasil that gets here tomorrow. I will still be looking to upgrade my streamer. I'm all in on streaming. I think a display would be great and that's one thing I like about Auralic. It also needs to be able to do Spotify connect for the wife. The Mac Mini doesn't do any streaming direct, all of that comes through the Node. The Node is connected via coax to my DAC. 

What does everyone think of the Naim Uniti Atom?

@willg1985, first let me ask you, what do you want your music server/streamer to do? Does it need to be an all in one box with its own built-in LPS, RFI filters, a variety of inputs and outputs, and some kind of screen so that you can see the music that you’re playing? Or do you want a simple computer that just helps you pick the music you want to hear? I ask because I read that you’re using a MacMini as your Roon core and Bluesound Node 2i with a Teddy Pardo power supply. 

I started music streaming with my Roon core on my MacBook Pro laptop, and I used a USB cable to plug directly into my Chord Qutest DAC. Yes music did come out of my headphones. But this setup definitely was not optimal when it came to sound quality. What I did realize is that Roon’s software had the best user interface that I had tried. So I asked my audio gear dealer which was the easiest music server to use and which one had the best sound? And he said that the Roon Nucleus was the easiest to set up and use, and that any music servers sound would be almost completely dependent on how good the surrounding components were, with the DAC being the most important piece in any listening chain. 

 Now from here on out there really is no absolute right way to go because internet music streaming is not an exact science. But for what you’ve got now I’d say replace the Schitt Gungnir and get the best DAC that you can afford before looking for a way to replace the MacMini and the Bluesound Node 2. Because whatever server/streamer you have the internet stream still has to go through your Gungnir DAC. I hope this helps.
 

Hello. You may want to try the Metronome DSS network player and streamer. Quite an improvement compared to the BS Node (more clarity, more details, sharpened sound but no fatigue).

Another Auralic fan here, I have an Aries G2.1, a fantastic streamer

@willg1985 

Up until I got the Rose, I used an external dac......and have had a variety of dacs over time....last one was a ANK 4.1LE.

The 9038 dac in the Rose is impressive.  

@mrmanisundaram I’ve definitely been intrigued by the HiFi Rose stuff. They look beautiful. My biggest hang up is that I’ll only use it for the streaming side not the D/A side. Would be cool if they come out with a streamer only version. 

I have been lsistening to streamed music almost since it started. First with Slim Devices Transporter, Node2i and Aurender N100H.  Aurender has worked a lot on its USB.  The N100H gives you the same sound as bigger models if your Dac has a good USB input. I have two of them, one to a Denafrips Pontus and the other one feeds a Devialet 220 Pro then Raidho X3. No harshess, grain or fatigue. Much better than using Airplay or Mconnect with a direct RG45 Internet connection to the Devialet.  

Finally, there is less and less difference between localy strored music and Qubuz stream. Flipping the same Hirez sound in two modes, it is so close , it comes to a guess.

Rose Hifi.....I have the 150b that recently replaced a DCs network bridge and find it to b very good.  They have a 250 version that may fit ur budget.  Good luck w ur search.

I respectfully disagree with @blisshifi in that I don’t think you have to spend much to get great streaming.  The Node is an ok entry point but the Cambridge Audio CXN 60 is a staggeringly good value at about $1200.  It has a beefed up power supply compared to the Node, an excellent Wolfson DAC, a great app, and adds Chromecast and AirPlay. It has enhanced Internet Radio capabilities relative to most streamers.  I added the Google Cast app to my phone for $3/year and I have several downloaded albums on my phone.  I could easily live with this as my only source although glad that I don’t have to.  In the analog world this kind of money won’t get the same level of return 

"pdreher

@glennewdick Did you use the Nucleus as your streamer straight into your external DAC, or did you have a ROON endpoint in-between?   Am asking because my experience streaming QOBUZ with ROON using the Nucleus with an IFi Zen Stream as the ROON endpoint provides superior sound quality, user interface and connectivity dependability vs. my previous setups with Bluesound streamers and an Aurender N10." 

I used the Nucleus directly into a Schiit gumby Multi bit DAC same as the optimized PC prior. I'm using Tidal. I used the USB output to the DAC, I believe, I think if i remember i used the optical as well with lesser sound quality. Why would you use a Roon endpoint with A Roon Nucleus isn't that your endpoint? 

Where it really seemed to be an issue is with the Tidal master series tracks they just did not sound even close to what I got out of the optimized PC. It sounded about the same as the CD quality coming from the none master series tracks. rather flat sounding to be honest.  not even as good as the CD player I have (McIntosh SACD/CD player). 

I don't seem to find MQA (fully unfolded) out of my Aurender A10 is superior either. personally i don't see the hyp of MQA in my current set up.

I'm frustrated with streaming to be honest. my Apple 4k tv box  (digital out to DAC) with the Tidal app sounds about as good as the Nucleus did, and easier to use, that's why I sold it. 

The Aurender is better of course and i see some of what can be had but it should not be this difficult to use and set up to optimize the sound. none of these streamers are plug and play, really. The Aurender app is a bit of a mess IMO, too many setting that seem to do nothing, to many steps to connect your tablet after a power on, etc.  

When i run the optimized PC, I can hear a defined increase in sound quality when i switch on the master tracks in Tidal.  I do not here the same level when streaming through the Roon nucleus or the Aurender A10. 

That said I sold the Schiit Gumby DAC when i got my Preamp (Mac C2700 with the DAC 2 board). I don't think its at the same level as the Schiit Gumby Multi bit DAC to be honest. I was hopping the Aurender A10's DAC would be superior but i don't think it is.

I'm going to borrow another DAC and try to see if that's the Issue. 

good luck and have fun, 

glen 

Well my Simaudio 680D has the Mind2 module. Only have my CD Transport connected via AES. Blacker than black. Last weekend had a friend over and connected his Lumin U2 Mini and neither of us could hear a difference from the Mind2.

Will keep the Mind2 for now as my plan is to reduce the number of boxes and heat generators. My listening room has a southern exposure and get warm most of the year.

I use USB between the Bluesound and Gustard and have similar blackness as my CD player. I would never use any other connection as USB is the only one I know that allows the clock of the dac to be used rather than the clock in the streamer. And my Gustard dac is way superior than the Bluesound dac.

@glennewdick Did you use the Nucleus as your streamer straight into your external DAC, or did you have a ROON endpoint in-between?   Am asking because my experience streaming QOBUZ with ROON using the Nucleus with an IFi Zen Stream as the ROON endpoint provides superior sound quality, user interface and connectivity dependability vs. my previous setups with Bluesound streamers and an Aurender N10.

@gregjacob so you want to introduce more noise using the USB interface.

pointless for a streamer. Use the AES or a digital cable and noise is a non factor. 
 

@ericsch 

Thanks,  I’ll check them out now.

JD

Just opened the home page of Simaudio Moon Mind 2 Network Player Streamer.

Be aware, those who need it: even in the latest version, the Mind 2 doesn't offer USB output to DACs or DDC units.  This is a pretty big hole for today's evolving connectivity.  I can't use it with my Denafrips Iris DDC.  Many of the older brands are upgrading their units right now to incorporate this.

The first of my two posts.

@curiousjim 

I also have the new Node with Pontus II. I got the PD Creative board and 
a Jay's Audio LPS. The Jay's LPS was more reasonable than S Booster
especially since we are dealing with a $600 streamer.

@curiousjim I paid $515 for the NODE, $545 for the Pardo and yet plenty worth it. Look at my post in the Did you notice discussion. It will tell you plenty.

@baylinor 

I have the new node and it’s going to a Pontus ll DAC. I was looking at getting the PD Creative power board and the S Booster power supply. Together, they will double the cost of the Node N130, so if the benefit outweighs the cost, I was thinking about trying it.  If not, I’ll eventually move on from the N130 to??

If you are looking at U1 Mini, there is also a power supply upgrade as well.  PD Creative in Poland.

@dinov You’re welcome. I’m going to reach out to you via PM to share some thoughts more directly with you. 

@curiousjim 

Info given on this site as any other needs to be taken with a grain of salt. The OP says that the Teddy Pardo LPS would be a good recommendation for the Bluesound specifically if you use its internal dac. Well, I got the absolute opposite recommendation from someone who was highly knowledgeable with the technology and explained it with technical jargon that went well above my head. What he says is upgrading the LPS on the Bluesound if using its own dac is a waste of money due to the configuration of its dac, but highly worth it if using an external dac. He also mentions examples of high quality dacs with external LPS, and the difference in cost when they sell their dac with internal or external LPS to explain why the Teddy Pardo cost vs value is so high. I use the Gustard X26 PRO dac and am very pleased with upgrade in clarity and sense of space. Sometimes I just have to put my two cents in because info given here can take you right down the rabbit hole :)

BTW, I owned the Aries 2 also but the Gustard beats it plenty, even for an analogue fan as my system demonstrates. Not sure about that R2R thing. It was highly recommended here and is another example of advice I could have done without. However,  overall, it still has been a good education to research stuff here but no reason to dive all in on anything specific you hear without backing it up through further research. So many sites, so many opinions...

@blisshifi Thank you for your thoughts on this.I have a power supply modded node, and it was a big improvement. Migrating my music files from an iMac to a Qnap nas also made a huge improvement in sound and performance. So at this point if I can get things sounding any better that they are I might start concentrating on digital only. I’m interested in upgrading in the future either Lumin which I have heard or Aurender which I have not. I think you’ve helped me decide on Aurender. 

I now have an Auralic Aries G1 with upgraded power supply from Stephan Hoer-Wege, The upgrade brings it very close to the Auralic Aries G2.1, it’s very very good. 

+1 on the Sonore streaming products and Small Green Computer

Go fiber if you can with the network connection

Good company with good products

Thanks @juanmanuelfangioii and @m669326!!

@curiousjim, in all honesty its hard to say. I had the Node 2i before and bought this Node second hand already upgraded. I never got to A/B them but I will say that I am quite happy with it. I got it for a good deal considering how much just the power supply upgrade is. I read a lot about it and many claim that if you are using the on-board DAC with the Node then the upgrade is significant. I also read that it helps even if you are using it as a stand alone streamer. If it was me though and you are using the on-board DAC of the Node, then I would put the money into a new DAC vs the Teddy Pardo upgrade. I think that you would see a bigger improvement there. Something like a Denafrips Ares II would be nice. Again, I think it sounds pretty good and I think I have a decently revealing system. (Mcintosh MA6900, Schiit Gumby, JBL L100 Classic 75’s)

I love streaming and I felt for the McIntosh MB50 Streaming / DAC and it is runing on Play-Fi. I live with it till today and love the big, clear, warm sound signture of this McIntosh streamer. I am surprise how come the world is complaining about Play-Fi apps being problem but I find no problem with it. No drop-out at all. May b 1 out of 1000 when my wifi gives me the problem. I used some exp streamers (I dont want to mention the brands) with their own apps but got problems with the apps. I sold them and keep this McIntosh. I even find Roon cumbersome needing to have the Core running and did dropped out on me. 

I just bought Lumin u2 Mini (1 week ago) for MQA playback and to use the USB out to my Esoteric k-03XD dac. Sound is also very good but I find the play-fi app is simple and better and meet my purpose of streaming without any complication. Lumin app is way advance with many options but I find it is more complexes. 
Both Play-Fi and Lumin apps seems very stable to me without any drop. 
But I prefer Play-fi app anytime which the world is complaining about. lol
Cheers and enjpy your streaming music.


 

I personally don’t find a dedicated streamer necessary from my comparisons 

a little green computer with SS  drive, and linear power supply 

sounds very clean ,a much bigger difference is your main power into the house 

ihad installed awg10 copperwire a 4 wire 30 amp breaker pure silver breaker contacts siemensGermany , one ground wire common ground ,the other insulated

isolated ground to a dedicated grounding strip in the main circuit breaker box to a externalsilverplated copper rod  the background is exceptionally quiet ,much better 

then stock and all outlets gold over Copper outlets ,No brass on Any contacts in any parts of my audio system copper is 5x less resistance, as well as conductivity

everything adds up .

I’m now on a Mercury streamer by Pi2design. I mean, I’ve already mentioned it way to much here, but it just keeps blowing my mind.

It’s based on a raspberry pi 4, but with some extremely high end clocks, a well built-out/extended board, and some really heavy duty galvanic isolation circuitry. Already leaps and bounds ahead of the Bluesound Node, seeming to perform even better than the new ifi stream (more reviews are about to drop soon I think). It also acts as its own ddc, being able to spit out coax, bnc, aes, I2s and optical simultaneously. Roon is more than compatible, and very flexible in that you can change out the OS with just the switching of an SD card.

Caveats: even though it comes preloaded with Volumio software, can be a bit glitchy during setup. Occasionally on playback as well. So not as plug and play as other more expensive streamers.

But INSANELY great for the $600.

@willg1985 

I just bought the new Node and was looking at doing the power supply upgrade.  How big of a difference was there when you did yours and do you think it was worth the money?

Thanks.

+1 on the Mind 2. Never heard one myself but I bet its a an upgrade and you don't see them much.  There are some Bryston BDPs around on USAudio as well.  There is a BDP Pi over there for around $600.  I have the Pi and know for a fact they make a great Roon endpoint.  Negative is they are out of production.  If you are looking to upgrade the entire chain you could consider getting an SGC Sonic Transport to run the Roon Core  and a Ultra Rendu  endpoint for less than $2K.  I bet that combo would be a significant upgrade. 

I second the Mind 2 recommendation. I am very happy with mine. If I were you, I would get the used one that’s currently available. I don’t think they show up used very often at all. For that matter, it’s not easy to find a new one here in the states.

Highly recommend the Moon By Simaudio Mind2 Network Player.

Very rare to see these in the previously loved market..

And made in North America. Simaudio even makes their boards in their plant in Canada er Montreal, QC.