Streamer Upgrade

Depending on how much you want to invest, it could be a huge leap in improvement. I went from a whole Bluesound house to in the end having one with a power supply upgrade, moving to a NAD M50.2 streamer which is now discontinued, but was leaps ahead. I’ve tried a number of better streamers, from  Innuos, Laufer Teknik, Auralic, and Aurender (in full disclosure I am an authorized dealer for Aurender) as well as many home-baked PC servers. 

While the modded node is very good for its price, the power supply upgrade is just piece, and overall the Node is not protecting itself from any noise. Once you upgrade to a streamer that cares deeply about isolation, clocking, caching and all, you will realize how much more clarity and information you get with less fatigue.

Awesome post. Thanks @blisshifi. I'm assuming that you are using a Aurender currently?

@willg1985 Yes I am. Using the N30SA, which is their reference streamer. I came a long way in the last 10 years or so. Upgrading to it made a bigger difference in sound quality than spending even more on a DAC upgrade. After buying the N30SA I slimmer my vinyl collection a bit and sold about 200 records in two months. Now I listen primarily to local files and streaming. I still have 600 vinyl records or so and listen to them less than 10% or the time.

What I would say is that the cost for entry to great streaming is very expensive. If your budget is less than that, definitely seek guidance and do research on the best solution for yourself. If you want to share what you’re considering and/or budget you want to invest, you might get some good guidance from the community. 

Wow very honest and refreshing post.  Thank you.

Thanks again @blisshifi. Maybe one day I could get to the N30SA level. I was planning on spending about $3k on a streamer. The Lumin U2 Mini and the Auralic Aries G1.1 were the 2 that seemed the most do-able right now. 

If you have CDs you still listen to you might also consider an Innuos Zen Mk3 as in addition to being an excellent streamer it’s also a server with its own disc drive so you can just load them directly into it and have access to all your music from your chair.  And their Sense software is reputed to produce excellent sound relative to many other apps out there, and by all accounts Innuos has very good customer support as well, which is nice with products like streamers where issues can pop up now and again.  Just another potential option FWIW, and best of luck. 

Thanks @soix, I like the thought of that a lot but it doesn't seem that it has Spotify compatibility. I personally use Qobuz but no Spotify would be a deal breaker for the wife. Great option otherwise though. 

@willg1985 Innuos’ Sense platform is compatible with Spotify Connect. If you can swing for it, the Innuos will be a better performer overall as well than the two units you mention. 

You can access Spotify for Innuos via a third party app, which is also the case with Qobuz that you need to access through mconnect HD that I actually prefer because it is very similar in layout/function to the Qobuz site so very low learning curve.  Think it would be a similar experience with Spotify, and here’s how to get it to work…

https://innuos.com/kb/configure-the-spotify-streaming-service-innuos-2-0/

Can highly recommend Bricasti M5 as a Roon endpoint.  It features a self contained LPS, and is built like a tank.  I picked up mine used about 6 months ago from TMR, and I see that the TMR folks currently have one listed for sale.  Prior experience was with Bluesound kit and Roon Nucleus with Sbooster LPS streaming to itself.  The Bricasti was a big step up.  They are currently asking $1799 for it.  Would think that you could probably pry it away from them for something more like $1500, and maybe less if you have something worthwhile to them to offer in trade.

I used to use a Schiit Gumby multi bit dac as well, I still regret selling it. 

I recently moved from a pc based streamer ( optimized for streaming audio) first to a Roon Nucleus, that was a down grade IMO, it is one of the most over price streams on the market IMO. Unless you love roon and need it in a dedicated streamer I'd pass on the nucleus, specially after you open the box and see an empty chassis.  I sold the Roon as it wasn't even close to as good sounding as the Optimized PC with Tidal. 

After i sold the Nucleus I got an Arender A10 with an Internal DAC ($6k). this is build like a tank and the chassis is stuffed full. but in the end its about the same sound as the optimized PC i was using prior. I honestly think the DAC in it is lacking in many areas like extension and sounds rather boring. 

I wish i had the Schiit Gumby milti bit DAC still, i sold it to help fund a preamp. It's better IMO then the DAC 2 board in my McIntosh C2700 preamp and the Aureder A10's internal DAC. The Aurender is really a disappointment to me for what it costs. yes i have done a side by side comparison. 

If it was me any my $ I would upgrade your DAC maybe to one of Schiit's Yagys and call it a day. Or another quality DAC. I just don't hear the huge difference others seem to hear with these expensive streamers. I find the DAC has more of a change in sound then the streamer. i'd pick one you like the interface with and stick with it.

As of now I feel an Optimized Computer is better then the dedicated streamers ive tried thus far. 

@jazzman7  thanks for sending this. This unit looks awesome but the wife wouldn’t be happy without Spotify connect. I love TMR too. 

@willg1985 

With respect to supporting Spotify.  I understand.  That is why I maintain an old Bluesound N100 (the original cube) in my main rig, just so that when my son is in town he can access Spotify.  

Sonore makes a line of music streamers and the ultraRendu is a good one. It's only $999 and sounds much better then Bluesound.

I find that using a streamer lets your DAC sound it's best. The streamer dosn't change your DACs sound it just eliminates all the noise that keeps your DAC from it's true sound.

I have an Auralic Aries G1 and am quite happy with it's performance. I stream exclusively through WiFi and have never had an issue with it dropping out or sounding compromised by a poor connection. Auralic states that they dedicated a lot of focus on performance over WiFi matching direct ethernet wiring. 

I sent a question into Auralic prior to purchasing the streamer and their head engineer replied directly back to me the same evening answering my question so it would seem that they are focused on good customer communication. At least in my one instance. 

I also have a Bluesound Node 2i that I use on another system and while I think it is a great streamer for the cost I do like the Lightning DS application from Auralic over the Bluesound streaming app. With Roon that most likely is not a priority for you. 

I have never compared Numin, Aurender or Innuous to the Auralic products so won't make any comments but I am sure they all make very good streamers in comparison. Price and features could be a deciding factor. 

My recommendation would be a used Aurender, or Aurlic Aries G… the Lumin sounds great… but many are unhappy with the interface. Both Aurender and Aurlic have great interfaces. 
 

I have owned an Auralic and now own two Aurenders, after listening to the N10. Aurender only makes streamers…their flagship is the most used in audio shows. They are the company to beat. Great customer service. 

@jazzman7. Yeah, that's a good call out. I guess I could still use the Node on a different source. 

Highly recommend the Moon By Simaudio Mind2 Network Player.

Very rare to see these in the previously loved market..

And made in North America. Simaudio even makes their boards in their plant in Canada er Montreal, QC. 

I second the Mind 2 recommendation. I am very happy with mine. If I were you, I would get the used one that’s currently available. I don’t think they show up used very often at all. For that matter, it’s not easy to find a new one here in the states.

+1 on the Mind 2. Never heard one myself but I bet its a an upgrade and you don't see them much.  There are some Bryston BDPs around on USAudio as well.  There is a BDP Pi over there for around $600.  I have the Pi and know for a fact they make a great Roon endpoint.  Negative is they are out of production.  If you are looking to upgrade the entire chain you could consider getting an SGC Sonic Transport to run the Roon Core  and a Ultra Rendu  endpoint for less than $2K.  I bet that combo would be a significant upgrade. 

@willg1985 

I just bought the new Node and was looking at doing the power supply upgrade.  How big of a difference was there when you did yours and do you think it was worth the money?

Thanks.

I’m now on a Mercury streamer by Pi2design. I mean, I’ve already mentioned it way to much here, but it just keeps blowing my mind.

It’s based on a raspberry pi 4, but with some extremely high end clocks, a well built-out/extended board, and some really heavy duty galvanic isolation circuitry. Already leaps and bounds ahead of the Bluesound Node, seeming to perform even better than the new ifi stream (more reviews are about to drop soon I think). It also acts as its own ddc, being able to spit out coax, bnc, aes, I2s and optical simultaneously. Roon is more than compatible, and very flexible in that you can change out the OS with just the switching of an SD card.

Caveats: even though it comes preloaded with Volumio software, can be a bit glitchy during setup. Occasionally on playback as well. So not as plug and play as other more expensive streamers.

But INSANELY great for the $600.

I personally don’t find a dedicated streamer necessary from my comparisons 

a little green computer with SS  drive, and linear power supply 

sounds very clean ,a much bigger difference is your main power into the house 

ihad installed awg10 copperwire a 4 wire 30 amp breaker pure silver breaker contacts siemensGermany , one ground wire common ground ,the other insulated

isolated ground to a dedicated grounding strip in the main circuit breaker box to a externalsilverplated copper rod  the background is exceptionally quiet ,much better 

then stock and all outlets gold over Copper outlets ,No brass on Any contacts in any parts of my audio system copper is 5x less resistance, as well as conductivity

everything adds up .

I love streaming and I felt for the McIntosh MB50 Streaming / DAC and it is runing on Play-Fi. I live with it till today and love the big, clear, warm sound signture of this McIntosh streamer. I am surprise how come the world is complaining about Play-Fi apps being problem but I find no problem with it. No drop-out at all. May b 1 out of 1000 when my wifi gives me the problem. I used some exp streamers (I dont want to mention the brands) with their own apps but got problems with the apps. I sold them and keep this McIntosh. I even find Roon cumbersome needing to have the Core running and did dropped out on me. 

I just bought Lumin u2 Mini (1 week ago) for MQA playback and to use the USB out to my Esoteric k-03XD dac. Sound is also very good but I find the play-fi app is simple and better and meet my purpose of streaming without any complication. Lumin app is way advance with many options but I find it is more complexes. 
Both Play-Fi and Lumin apps seems very stable to me without any drop. 
But I prefer Play-fi app anytime which the world is complaining about. lol
Cheers and enjpy your streaming music.


 

@curiousjim, in all honesty its hard to say. I had the Node 2i before and bought this Node second hand already upgraded. I never got to A/B them but I will say that I am quite happy with it. I got it for a good deal considering how much just the power supply upgrade is. I read a lot about it and many claim that if you are using the on-board DAC with the Node then the upgrade is significant. I also read that it helps even if you are using it as a stand alone streamer. If it was me though and you are using the on-board DAC of the Node, then I would put the money into a new DAC vs the Teddy Pardo upgrade. I think that you would see a bigger improvement there. Something like a Denafrips Ares II would be nice. Again, I think it sounds pretty good and I think I have a decently revealing system. (Mcintosh MA6900, Schiit Gumby, JBL L100 Classic 75’s)

Thanks @juanmanuelfangioii and @m669326!!

+1 on the Sonore streaming products and Small Green Computer

Go fiber if you can with the network connection

Good company with good products

I now have an Auralic Aries G1 with upgraded power supply from Stephan Hoer-Wege, The upgrade brings it very close to the Auralic Aries G2.1, it’s very very good. 

@blisshifi Thank you for your thoughts on this.I have a power supply modded node, and it was a big improvement. Migrating my music files from an iMac to a Qnap nas also made a huge improvement in sound and performance. So at this point if I can get things sounding any better that they are I might start concentrating on digital only. I’m interested in upgrading in the future either Lumin which I have heard or Aurender which I have not. I think you’ve helped me decide on Aurender. 

@curiousjim 

Info given on this site as any other needs to be taken with a grain of salt. The OP says that the Teddy Pardo LPS would be a good recommendation for the Bluesound specifically if you use its internal dac. Well, I got the absolute opposite recommendation from someone who was highly knowledgeable with the technology and explained it with technical jargon that went well above my head. What he says is upgrading the LPS on the Bluesound if using its own dac is a waste of money due to the configuration of its dac, but highly worth it if using an external dac. He also mentions examples of high quality dacs with external LPS, and the difference in cost when they sell their dac with internal or external LPS to explain why the Teddy Pardo cost vs value is so high. I use the Gustard X26 PRO dac and am very pleased with upgrade in clarity and sense of space. Sometimes I just have to put my two cents in because info given here can take you right down the rabbit hole :)

BTW, I owned the Aries 2 also but the Gustard beats it plenty, even for an analogue fan as my system demonstrates. Not sure about that R2R thing. It was highly recommended here and is another example of advice I could have done without. However,  overall, it still has been a good education to research stuff here but no reason to dive all in on anything specific you hear without backing it up through further research. So many sites, so many opinions...

@dinov You’re welcome. I’m going to reach out to you via PM to share some thoughts more directly with you. 

If you are looking at U1 Mini, there is also a power supply upgrade as well.  PD Creative in Poland.

@baylinor 

I have the new node and it’s going to a Pontus ll DAC. I was looking at getting the PD Creative power board and the S Booster power supply. Together, they will double the cost of the Node N130, so if the benefit outweighs the cost, I was thinking about trying it.  If not, I’ll eventually move on from the N130 to??

@curiousjim I paid $515 for the NODE, $545 for the Pardo and yet plenty worth it. Look at my post in the Did you notice discussion. It will tell you plenty.

@curiousjim 

I also have the new Node with Pontus II. I got the PD Creative board and 
a Jay's Audio LPS. The Jay's LPS was more reasonable than S Booster
especially since we are dealing with a $600 streamer.

The first of my two posts.

Just opened the home page of Simaudio Moon Mind 2 Network Player Streamer.

Be aware, those who need it: even in the latest version, the Mind 2 doesn't offer USB output to DACs or DDC units.  This is a pretty big hole for today's evolving connectivity.  I can't use it with my Denafrips Iris DDC.  Many of the older brands are upgrading their units right now to incorporate this.

@ericsch 

Thanks,  I’ll check them out now.

JD

@gregjacob so you want to introduce more noise using the USB interface.

pointless for a streamer. Use the AES or a digital cable and noise is a non factor. 
 

@glennewdick Did you use the Nucleus as your streamer straight into your external DAC, or did you have a ROON endpoint in-between?   Am asking because my experience streaming QOBUZ with ROON using the Nucleus with an IFi Zen Stream as the ROON endpoint provides superior sound quality, user interface and connectivity dependability vs. my previous setups with Bluesound streamers and an Aurender N10.

I use USB between the Bluesound and Gustard and have similar blackness as my CD player. I would never use any other connection as USB is the only one I know that allows the clock of the dac to be used rather than the clock in the streamer. And my Gustard dac is way superior than the Bluesound dac.

Well my Simaudio 680D has the Mind2 module. Only have my CD Transport connected via AES. Blacker than black. Last weekend had a friend over and connected his Lumin U2 Mini and neither of us could hear a difference from the Mind2.

Will keep the Mind2 for now as my plan is to reduce the number of boxes and heat generators. My listening room has a southern exposure and get warm most of the year.

"pdreher

@glennewdick Did you use the Nucleus as your streamer straight into your external DAC, or did you have a ROON endpoint in-between?   Am asking because my experience streaming QOBUZ with ROON using the Nucleus with an IFi Zen Stream as the ROON endpoint provides superior sound quality, user interface and connectivity dependability vs. my previous setups with Bluesound streamers and an Aurender N10." 

I used the Nucleus directly into a Schiit gumby Multi bit DAC same as the optimized PC prior. I'm using Tidal. I used the USB output to the DAC, I believe, I think if i remember i used the optical as well with lesser sound quality. Why would you use a Roon endpoint with A Roon Nucleus isn't that your endpoint? 

Where it really seemed to be an issue is with the Tidal master series tracks they just did not sound even close to what I got out of the optimized PC. It sounded about the same as the CD quality coming from the none master series tracks. rather flat sounding to be honest.  not even as good as the CD player I have (McIntosh SACD/CD player). 

I don't seem to find MQA (fully unfolded) out of my Aurender A10 is superior either. personally i don't see the hyp of MQA in my current set up.

I'm frustrated with streaming to be honest. my Apple 4k tv box  (digital out to DAC) with the Tidal app sounds about as good as the Nucleus did, and easier to use, that's why I sold it. 

The Aurender is better of course and i see some of what can be had but it should not be this difficult to use and set up to optimize the sound. none of these streamers are plug and play, really. The Aurender app is a bit of a mess IMO, too many setting that seem to do nothing, to many steps to connect your tablet after a power on, etc.  

When i run the optimized PC, I can hear a defined increase in sound quality when i switch on the master tracks in Tidal.  I do not here the same level when streaming through the Roon nucleus or the Aurender A10. 

That said I sold the Schiit Gumby DAC when i got my Preamp (Mac C2700 with the DAC 2 board). I don't think its at the same level as the Schiit Gumby Multi bit DAC to be honest. I was hopping the Aurender A10's DAC would be superior but i don't think it is.

I'm going to borrow another DAC and try to see if that's the Issue. 

good luck and have fun, 

glen 

I respectfully disagree with @blisshifi in that I don’t think you have to spend much to get great streaming.  The Node is an ok entry point but the Cambridge Audio CXN 60 is a staggeringly good value at about $1200.  It has a beefed up power supply compared to the Node, an excellent Wolfson DAC, a great app, and adds Chromecast and AirPlay. It has enhanced Internet Radio capabilities relative to most streamers.  I added the Google Cast app to my phone for $3/year and I have several downloaded albums on my phone.  I could easily live with this as my only source although glad that I don’t have to.  In the analog world this kind of money won’t get the same level of return 

Rose Hifi.....I have the 150b that recently replaced a DCs network bridge and find it to b very good.  They have a 250 version that may fit ur budget.  Good luck w ur search.

I have been lsistening to streamed music almost since it started. First with Slim Devices Transporter, Node2i and Aurender N100H.  Aurender has worked a lot on its USB.  The N100H gives you the same sound as bigger models if your Dac has a good USB input. I have two of them, one to a Denafrips Pontus and the other one feeds a Devialet 220 Pro then Raidho X3. No harshess, grain or fatigue. Much better than using Airplay or Mconnect with a direct RG45 Internet connection to the Devialet.  

Finally, there is less and less difference between localy strored music and Qubuz stream. Flipping the same Hirez sound in two modes, it is so close , it comes to a guess.

@mrmanisundaram I’ve definitely been intrigued by the HiFi Rose stuff. They look beautiful. My biggest hang up is that I’ll only use it for the streaming side not the D/A side. Would be cool if they come out with a streamer only version. 

@willg1985 

Up until I got the Rose, I used an external dac......and have had a variety of dacs over time....last one was a ANK 4.1LE.

The 9038 dac in the Rose is impressive.  

Another Auralic fan here, I have an Aries G2.1, a fantastic streamer