I have been a musician nearly all my life and also a HI Fi nut. I am very into string quartets and have had various ensembles to play them back. My first real forage into chamber music playback was a pair of Stacked Quad ESL 57s. They were much more dynamic than a standard pair of speakers and that midrange was magical. They certainly were no good when they were trolling the depths of the cello ( Fried a few panels and cost a good few Quid.) I got rid of the quads and then went to Rogers LS35As along with a REL sub which was much more successful albeit the Rogers needed lots of watts to give a decent sound and perspective. After a few years with that setup I then scraped up enough to purchase a pair of ATC SCM40 speakers and that was when happiness set in at last the cello shone. To put a bit of perspective on things I am very acquainted with live string quartet playing having gone to the Edinburgh festivals for 40 years and heard many many quartets, Amadeus, Alban Berg, Edinburgh, Tacacs, and many more and the ATC's seemed to capture that special sound of quartets and also the intimacy of them.
Speakers for string Quartets
Hi, I know already this is not a great question to ask, but…I’m looking for speakers that will only be used for string quartets. Looking for something that will give me some of he sound of the body of the violin, not just strings. Looking for transparency with great tone, but don’t care too much about bass.
I have a large room, but never listen above 80db
current amps are Pass xa25, first watt F8, Aric Audio Single ended kt88, PS Audio m700.
just looking to really hear the violins, cellos.
hHopefully the narrow range of music can reduce the list of prospects.
thanks
I just came upon this post, so I am late to the party. I am utterly devoted to string quartet music, and it has always been a significant factor in my selection of equipment. I’ve personally owned Magnepan, Quad ESL 57s, small bookshelf speakers (not out of the BBC mold) and full range floor standers. I’ve found that speakers that exhibit anything less than superb coherence will be a distraction, if not an annoyance. Pay particular attention to crossover frequencies. Magnepan speakers, for all their virtues, in my experience all exhibit an obvious transition between tweeter and midrange as a violin descends in frequency. This manifests itself both spatially, where the violin moves in space, and qualitatively, where the difference between the sweetness and purity of the ribbon and the lack thereof in the midrange draws attention to itself. I’ve also heard this in some monitors, where beryllium tweeters are used. They are so fast and clear that the descent into the midrange produces a similar lack of coherence. Pay particular attention to how instruments are presented in space. This is another area where Magnepan speakers have issues that can be exposed by small ensembles and even more so by a single instrument. The Bach sonatas, as example, sound as if they are being played with a 7 foot long violin. Most decent monitors, floor standers, and the Quad ESL 57 will get this right, or at least better, than Maggies. For me at least, it is two strikes and you are out on Maggies for quartets. Speaking of Quad ESL 57s, I bought a nice pair of fully rebuilt 57s several years ago based on recommendations from several people whose opinions I deeply respect. A couple of those people are professional musicians. Honestly, I was disappointed. I have Atma-Sphere M-60s, which are a preferred amplifier for these speakers, and yet I just couldn’t get them to work for me. Perhaps they are not right for my room. The midrange is very nice, but I could not get beyond the lack of extension at high and low frequencies. In my opinion, you need that extended high frequency to properly capture the strings. Those upper harmonics are really essential. However, if you or anyone else wants to give a pair of 57s a try, I would part with them at reasonable cost. The best I’ve heard for quartets in my own system is a pair of Coincident Super Victory II speakers with rebuilt crossovers. These feature a ribbon tweeter that crosses over fairly high, a 7" mid, and a 12" woofer that rolls off at about 26 Hz. The speakers are nicely coherent. There are no clues evident what the music transitions between drivers. Instruments (and voices) are presented with realistic spacial clues. In a well treated and well set up room, imaging is superb. I can at times hear the first and second violins as instruments separated in space. This is something I wouldn’t normally hear even in a live venue. BTW, that should always be ones absolute reference. I trust you are a frequent attendee at live chamber. The largest downside with my Coincident floor standers is that the midrange is not the most refined I have heard. I suspect that a top notch smaller midrange, perhaps a 5" or smaller, would do much better in this regard. I don’t think that your leaning in the British direction is unreasonable. I think that the ability to audition is going to be very important for you, unless you are willing to go used and buy and sell until you find what you are looking for. Good thread! Keep us posted. |
Tannoy Prestige. Absolutely loved the tone, body, and texture of string instruments and piano I got from my Turnberry SE, especially after replacing the crossover parts with high quality stuff. Surpassed the Sonus Faber Cremona M they replaced by a pretty wide margin in those aspects. Also the scale! They are pretty high sensitivity and easy load so your amps should have no problem driving them. |
Couple of things: If you're interested in British BBC-heritage monitors, do read Robert E Greene's reviews at TAS online. He is a violinist and has reviewed many of those speakers. That could help you choose among them. I don't disagree with @mahgister that acoustics of the room are important. That wasn't your question, but it does pay dividends. |
Jazz piano genius Fred Hersch has a recent album with his trio and a string quartet...friggin' great stuff. I recently bought a Pass XA25 to see what that was all about and man, it's GREAT...giving my SEP Tube amp a rest. Freya, SA25, Klipsch Heresy IIIs (I like the titanium midrange better than the new IV version) and 2 REL subs (the 2014th time I've mentioned this stuff)...strings for days along with anything else I throw at 'em, from Hindemith to Little Feat...who knew? |
Stradivarius.....jk... Big string quartet fan here, and I love my Harbeth P3 ESR XD's in my desktop setup. I bet their bigger brothers would sound terrific in your large room. I also love a ton of jazz and the Harbeth's really capture the intimacy and warmth of that genre as well. I had an opportunity to see the Borodin String Quartet perform the entire Shostakovich string quartet cycle over the course of 3 days, some years ago. It was truly a life-changing experience. |
Agree with Sailboat & zgas. I too spend much time listening to live performances of small ensemble string & piano. Nothing will qet you closer to reality than Quads. My 63s are highly modified but stock speakers will be magic if properly set up. Match them with Spectral electronics if you can. If you need dynamics & high volume look elswhere or get a second system. |
I have KEF Reference 5 speakers (not the brand new Meta version). I love string music, especially cellos. I am amazed at the realistic way these speakers reproduce the woody sounds of cellos, violins and violas. They’re not cheap although big discounts are available now that there’s a revised model. The KEF Reference 3 has similar sound characteristics with a little less bass at a lower price. I’m really eager to hear the new meta version. .
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Thanks for all the perspective!!!! I’m leaning towards the “British Invation”… question…with a pretty large room, open to kitchen/dinning room, I’m hesitant to go for bookshelve/monitor size. I believe Quads would be great, but I don’t know if I could go to something with so little dynamics after loving my horns for all the dynamics! Harbeths seem to be my go to to audition, but I’m sure you pay a lot for the name. Any thoughts on the current KEF line up? Somehow I don’t think they’re very “British” anymore. Out of left field I’ve become interested in Great Plains Audio Altec 604 coaxial 15” drivers. From what I’ve read it may have possibilities. thaks again!
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Because i can control at will all acoustical factors in a room designed for specific speaker, i think that acoustical treatment and especially mechanical control import way more than the brand name speaker itself... Even in near listening... I repeat that because all people with different ears, with different speakers boast their favorite speakers, but who spoke about the huge improvement from acoustic control over the relation speakers/room ? My box speakers in a well controlled room are not behind but better than magnepan in a bad room by the way , EVEN IF TECHNICALLY the magnepan are better speakers...I know one of my friend own big magnepan but in an horrible room..... Then....Conclude yourself.... The choice of speakers itself matter least than room control and treatment... Timbre perception dont emerge magically from the speakers techs sheets, but from his specific relation to the room acoustic content and all other acoustic factors too comes this way... Pick the best speakers ratio/price for your needs and for your room size and geometry and think acoustic treatment and mechanical control ... Acoustic listening experiments are way more fun and enlightening for us than "buy this brand name and plug it"... But it is for me at least.... Deeper purse with no time to loose in experiments think otherwise for sure.... 😁😊😎😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
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Lots of good (and predictable) advice here. Electrostatics, the English Invasion (Harbeth, Spendor—and don't neglect B&W, DGG's monitor of choice, favored by John Eliot Gardiner); Sonus Faber, Vandersteen. Quad ESLs get mentioned a lot, and I have a friend with a pair. Underwhelming. No one has mentioned Vienna Acoustics, which sound very civilized with chamber music. So let me add my contentious two cents, just to poke a stick in a few eyes (or ears, as the case may be). First, and despite the conventional wisdom that any good speaker will reproduce any music well, I do think there are brands better suited to String Quartets vs. Heavy Metal. I like Tool better on a friend's Klipsch corner horns than on my own system. Those speakers can dislocate your spine. No one's spine was ever dislocated by a String Quartet. When I bought my speakers, I auditioned them against Vandersteens and B&W. Both of those contenders seemed to veil the music slightly, and were distinctly disappointing with loud, bass-heavy rock (the B&W 802s less so). In my home, I've compared my beloved Teslas (yes, that's right, but they were made by Mike Maloney of "Scientific Fidelity" back when Musk was a toddler) against PSB Synchrony Ones, Von Schweikerts, various B&Ws, and the enormous MartinLogan "The Quest." The Teslas always prevailed. Unfortunately, you won't find them; a bad review from Corey Greenberg in Stereophile pretty much killed them. Too bad. They're beautiful to look at, too. For what it's worth, I play cello in a String Quartet. Granted, the listening experience is different with the instrument cradled in one's body. But, of course, I've had many hours of experience in the audience. The Teslas rule, IMO. Check out my "virtual system," if you're curious. Besides the photos, there's a long account of my "audiophile journey," to repeat the cliche. |
I have the Magnepans. 7's and l think they really excel with stringed instruments, in my opinion. Any Maggie's for that matter.The YouTube vid I've attached of my stereo rig should give some indication Keep in mind that l feed my Maggie's with a very power amp with lots of watts/current and l also have one SVS ultra 13 sub My setup and equipment is in the description
Watch "Magnepan .7's & audio system" on YouTube https://youtu.be/WmHjTmDRO88
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Consider a single driver speaker that is not a horn, e.g., Voxativ. This German speaker uses the cabinetry to drive bass notes, like a piano. It is acoustically designed using many of the principles of high end piano design.. Vox’s are high efficiency, very fast, and not cheap. I run my pair with a 300B SET. |
Most posters are blasting past the amplifiers you have. You would need to decide between the lower powered ones and higher power. Most recommend choosing a speaker and then getting the right amp to power it. For timbral purity with lower powered amps, such as you mainly have, I'm going to repeat my recommendation of Audio Note. I was at Deja Vu in Washington DC and put on my favorite CD of English viol consort music (the antecedent of the string quartet) and I was blown away. |
fascinating read, Re tonality of speakers Im amazed to hear strong recommedations for Vanderteen. My limited experience of that touted brand was entirely negative, One of our respected audio store here in Toronto was offerin a record cleanibg service for LPS back in the day. About 10lps having been cleaned and dried he played one back on the house demo system-the speakers being Vandersteen Towers. Well the lps were cerainly cleaned up but the sound was brutal. Id assume this upscale shop wdve had the speakers properly set up in their listening room and paired with sympathetic electronics but granted the reputation of the brand very likely not. At any rate my experience and that long ago. |
Quad 57's with the right room set up and proper amps matched to them Quad 2805's again, with proper amps matched to them. the 2805's perform well down to about 33hz Quad 2905s. more speaker area. more bass response. 2905s perform well down to about 28hz... again with proper room set up and amps. Magnepan's: several great options. I used Maggies for over 30 years. I like the 1.7s, the 3 series... and hot rodded Tympani's. Maggies need a bit more power than the Quads. and again proper room set up and proper amps matched to them. I am not a big fan of the ML's. the ML's are nice. really good in fact. I personally don't care for the bass range being driven by a cone speaker and trying to match that with the planar mid range / treble via a cross over. Again very good. But for what you are specifically looking for.... nothing will come close to the Quads. Seriously. NOTE: I have not tried Quads with any of the amps you list. I drove my 2805's with AirTight ATM-3 mono blocs... sublime!!!! I know several amazing violin and cello players. some are world famous. I am familiar with standing near them while they play live. I know the sound and the feeling in my bones from strings being played, I have been actually in the recording studio with some famous violinists and know the sound WELL. The Quads are stunning close. Especially when set up properly. The Maggies are quite nice as well. I just prefer the Quads.. they are amazing. IMHO |
No one mentioned time coherence. Quads got me interested in coherent speakers more than ½c ago. Vandersteens are pretty good. Maggies can be if set up properly. Spice TC-50 on stands with sub in a good room can transport you. Tri-amped, time corrected Eminent Tech LFT-8b w dual subs are outstanding! 😉 With 650 wpc, they will make you duck in the finale of the 1812 or have you stomping along with Queen’s "We Will Rock You". Jaqueline du Pre and YoYo Ma live here! Small string ensembles in a good room are extremely rich in coherent harmonics. Speakers plastered on a flat plate are never going to cut it.
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While you don't NEED a separate system for acoustic string music, I have a hard time parting with gear from old systems so tend to assemble them into systems with certain strengths. My 'string system' is a pair of original Martin Logan CLS powered by a large Class A amp (Classe DR3 VHC). It is magic for acoustic strings.
The chap that suggested Quad ESL 57s was on the same wavelength. Both are fast enough to reproduce the subtleties of low level strings. You might think that you'd miss out on the low bass, but even a stand-up bass fan will be happy as those speakers are fine with the 250-500 Hz low end usual for that instrument (although they will play lower). My CLS are 3 dB down at 45 Hz. The Quads are good to 50 Hz, |
Unfortunately,the Quads, as good as they are, cause listening fatigue rather quickly. IF you have quality electronics, I recommend you try Magneplaners IN YOUR ROOM. If they are set up properly with quality electronics, you should be pleased. If not, I guess keep auditioning speakers IN YOUR ROOM until you find one you like. Cheers! |
Suggest trying Harbeth SHL5+ with a lower powered amp & see what you think. I own them because they work well for me across many genres of music, but I enjoy cello and they certainly sing for that instrument - very musical down low, beautiful voicing and clarity throughout. Again, I’ve never played these with an amp putting out less than 40 wpc, but your needs obviously dependent on listening distance, volume etc. Let us know how your thinking evolves and what you choose! Have a great day |
There tends to be a bit of false conventional wisdom about reproducing string quartet music because of the fact that we are dealing with four instruments instead of a full orchestra. String quartets can have significant dynamic range and the fundmental on a Cello is at 65hz. So while it is 20hz above a double bass, it's still well down in the bass range. Apart from the PS Audio, any of those other amps in a big room are going to need a pretty sensitive/efficient speaker. The DeVore 96 probably fits the bill best. I would also look at Harbeths but do not rule out listening to one of the bigger models like the HL5 Plus XD. If you really want a stand mount speaker and are prepared to compromise on bass extension, the original Sonus Faber Guarneri is worth seeking out. |
IMO "String Quartet" is not a silly constraint. I take it to mean that the OP is interested in speakers that do an excellent job with small-scale, intimate arrangements emphasizing the mids. He isn't so interested in deep bass, a super wide sound stage, or the wide dynamic swings you get in orchestral music. I had a pair of Totem Arros that worked very well within those constraints, in a small to mid-sized room. The speakers disappeared, the center image was very clear, the mid range was beautiful. The price was under $2K. |
I’m pretty new to the hobby, and consequently, don’t have nearly as much experience as most of these guys, but I own a pair of Martin Logan Summits that make quartets sound amazing. I’ve sort of marveled over it, really. Somebody mentioned timbre. I think that nails it. Especially when it comes to stringed instruments. As others’ve also mentioned, I guess there’s something about electrostatics. I’m just blown away by the image and soundstage that these speakers present. With the electronics you have and some good clean power I can only imagine how they would sound. One of the reasons I got these speakers is because of how gorgeous they are from a visual slash design standpoint. I don’t think I’d be as cool with the idea of pulling a box speaker out away from the wall the way I have with these, of course, so I can get excellent acoustics. But they’re sexy as hell to look at and I’m being serious. One of the reasons I got them is because, to me, they’re almost like a piece of art in terms of the industrial design. I consider it a real bonus that they fit so well with the design of my place. Visually, they’re very cool. They’re expensive as hell but if you can afford them I think they’ll do the trick. The 15A’s somebody else mentioned are kind of in a different league than mine and they’re probably the ticket. I read a little bit about the way the woofers oppose each other in the design of the bass cabinet back when I was shopping for mine and it sounds like a really cool design. The second ten inch woofer in mine is down firing instead of opposing and I think the 15A is actually a better design. If you’ve got those bucks I think they’re probably worth it. You know the law of diminishing returns, right? We all have to draw the line somewhere. : ) In terms of how the acoustic is formed, it’s my understanding that when you get the bass right, everything sounds better across the spectrum, esp the higher frequencies. And even though you listen to stringed music only, I’m thinking this is how you’re going to really get the sound you’re after. I hear you when you say you’re not really into bass, but my experience is that when I started to get a handle on the bass it sort of opened up the higher frequencies. It was like the missing piece, you might say. It sort of filled in the picture. @mahgister is right, it’s all about the room acoustic ... and especially, if for whatever reason you’re not into that, you know, treating your room. Or if you have an ideal space to set them up, then the next best option I believe is a speaker that’s designed to give you that acoustic. The way the sound waves move and interact in the room in the dipole configuration to form the acoustic is what I think is really cool from an acoustical engineering standpoint. The curved panel is part of what causes a unique wave launch, which is especially relevant in the higher frequencies I guess. I had to study room acoustics a little bit to get mine placed properly, in order to get them to perform to their potential, but when I did I was floored. And I’ve been in audio nirvana ever since. I think Mahgister gets it. : ) For me, it was the you don’t know what you don’t know, thing. I believe these speakers may be cut out for what you’re looking for though. Let us know what you decide and hope you enjoy!
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It's funny because I do have an answer... sort of. First of all, it goes without saying that the other components beside speakers are of paramount importance too. I haven't been exposed to lots and lots of audio gear, but of those I've heard the best electronics for string quartet were Accuphase (oh, and an expensive DAC from Luxman). This being said, the best speakers for string quartet that I've heard are the Harbeth M30.2's. Overall I preferred my Spendor SP2/3R2's so I sold the Harbeths but for string quartets they were kings. My current Martin Logan Impression 11A are also good (when paired with Accuphase) with better detail, extension, effortlessness etc. but not quite as convincing timbre and less tactility. So, yeah, Harbeth. And another contender might be Sonus Faber. |
^Agree^ Piano and vocals are the hardest to fake as we are pretty evolutionarily well tuned into the voice… and pianos are purer tones. |
I'd suggest you consider Russ Andrews' Plug-in RF Router or even the RF Router MK 2 as this type of music could really benefit from it. There's a recommendation to ground the cases of all equipment and a suggestion to do the same with speaker driver frames. I have extensive shielding to protect from EMI and RFI, so it is also connected to the unit. The routers are one way system, so any noise in the earth wiring is isolated and you are free from contamination. As I live in a multi level apartment complex it is a no brainer. There's a 25% sale starting on March 30 if anyone is interested. |
