Speaker Suggestions for Next Move

@bigkidz ,  

You (and many others) were not kidding about Revival Audio's Atalante 5s.  I have them in the room, breaking in.  Good golly these are seductive. I'd pay much more for these. They aren't perfect (no speaker is), but boy are they compelling. This is a special loudspeaker. 

BTW, the fit-finish and quality of everything was a bit surprising at this price point.  

Thanks Duke! You put so much into words in a great way.  I agree with it all.

@jbhiller wrote: "I’d like to get a bit more depth to the soundstage..."

Ime there are two types of soundstage depth.

The first type would be a deep-soundstage "they are here" presentation. A "they are here" presentation is an approximation of the musicians playing in your acoustic space. Minimizing the reflections off the wall behind the speakers, either by distance from the wall or acoustic treatment on the wall or both, along with minimzing the first same-side-wall reflections, contribute to a deep "they are here" soundstage. The soundstage depth is still somewhat constrained by the room, BUT is can be much deeper than if no attention is paid to these early reflections.

The second type would be a "you are there" presentation, wherein the venue spatial cues on the recording are perceptually dominant over the "small room signature" cues of the playback room. So the sense of space (including the soundstage depth) varies from one recording to the next, corresponding with the venue spatial cues on the recording, whether they be real or engineered or both, and is not constrained by the room’s dimensions.

Imo the second type is the more enjoyable and the more elusive, and I can go into a bit more detail about it if you’d like.

I’m not saying that favorable room interaction is the ONLY contributor to good soundstage depth, but ime it is one of them. Another factor is, the loudspeakers themselves should free from strong edge diffraction, as that can degrade the image localization cues, including depth.

Duke

dealer/manufacturer

@mezzguy2 , Thank you for your input--it's extra valuable coming from someone who owned the CWIVs and who generally likes them--as I do. 

I'm going to try the Revival Audio Atalante 5s (Great recommendation @bigkidz).  I'm very curious and if I don't like them after a few months I can sell them--they appear to be selling like hotcakes. 

I had a great two nights of listening with the CWIVs this weekend.  But the sessions  confirmed I want to move on.  

Vote fo Tekton  , If you Go to CAF , you also can listen a lot//

@jbhiller   HiFi Direct is Mike O'Keefe  use my name peter from vu jade audio

Hi there - I was in the same position with my CW IV’s about a year ago and ended up finding a demo pair of Graham SL5/5s and pairing them with two REL s510’s and couldn’t be happier with the set up. The used price I paid with two new rels is right in your budget. The Spendor Classic 100s should sound pretty similar to my Grahams. Before the CW IVs, I was running Spatial Audio M3 sapphires, which are still one of my favorite speakers. They do vocals extremely well, but not as detailed or balanced as some others, but great bang for the buck and super easy to drive. Only other thing to note is that the Grahams are a little harder to drive than the CW IVs…happy listening and curious where you end up!

Give a listen to JBL L300 I have a pair for sale

You might look at Fyne Audio speakers.  I have the F-702s (made in Scotland), and, while needing a sub to augment the 8” bass, sound superb.  The F-703s are in your price range and have a 10” woofer, and F-704s have a 12” woofer.  The imaging and tonal qualities Iare superb with a Rogue Audio tube preamp and Odyssey solid state monobloc amplifiers, the latter connected to the speakers with Silversmith Fidelium cables with bi-amp adapters.

I have a couple of suggestions in your price range.  The first is the Linkwitz LX521 system, which you can readily afford as a DIY system.  You can buy it fully pre-built and delivered to your doorstep, with amplification, for about $21k or so, but thatʻs out of your price range.  This is the premier open baffle design there is, multi-amplified.  Cost to build the speaker, with active crossover, $3500 for drivers and crossover, plus another $1000 for the flat pak kit.  You could also build it yourself if you have wood working tools.  The big question in expense is amplification, but you could certainly get it all done for less than $10,000 total.  Easy.

The LX521 is extraordinary and matches up against the $50,000+ systems and more.  Just killer.

The other choice at the edge of your price range is the Dutch & Dutch 8c system.  It is a full system built-in amplification, DSP EQ and DAC.  I have never heard anything that imaged better.  Amazing.  

You owe it to  yourself to find a way to hear one or both of these systems.  They really will amaze you.  Leave Klipsch and the 20th century behind.  Check these systems out.

@jbhiller I recommend Marten Oscar Trio speakers.  I don’t think they have a lot of dealers in the U.S. though.

Great suggestions. I’m busy researching.

Not sure about Focal. Can’t they be a bit brighter on top end? Tekton’s looks are deal breakers for me. Sorry.

My friend has Revel Salon 2s and my other friend is a revel dealer. Very accurate but clinical sounding. Dynamics were lacking to me personally.

@jbhiller If you're going to upgrade your speakers, you may want to consider upgrading to an end game pair of Focals.  The speakers you've listed, and others have mentioned aren't in the same league as Focal Scala Utopias or Focal Sopra 3's.

They check all your boxes - your room is large enough, there are some used pairs out there that fit your budget, they're easy to drive by SS or tube amp.  I used to drive Utopias with a New Audio Frontiers 845 tube amp with only 25 watts per channel.  

Best of luck with your project.

Fink Team KIM

Fyne Audio Classic 12

DeVore. Audition the O93 and the Gibbon Super Nine and see which presentation is right for you. Happy Super Nine owner here and have no desire to change anytime soon. 

ProAc D48R they sound huge width, height, depth. But also tremendous focus and musicality. They also do the disappearing thing incredibly well. Lastly not hard to drive.  Vandersteen’s for sure . Quattro Wood CE are really good too.,” if you’re in the NY NJ area Audio Connection is a great place to visit 

You must listen Wolf Von Langa model : Son  , end of the road speakers they are field coil and you can adjust them to your listening room

Sorry but the Revels, Magico, and Wilson’s are in a much higher league than Klipsch, and especially any magnepan speakers.

If you want the more current technology at a $10k savings, look at the Revel f328be speaker instead of the Salon 2s. If you don’t need that much bass or have a smaller room, the revel f228be or f226be might be an option. I had a friend that had the larger 20.7’s with many rel subs and eventually went to a nicer box speaker.

hORNS out of Poland makes a lovely line of speakers.

If you like the immediacy that a horn provides, but want more realism, I'd suggest going with a Tekton Design model.  The Moab with the new ceramic drivers and beryllium center is most likely astonishing value.  My friend just ordered them and they should get there next week.  The designer, Eric Alexander recommended those over the Encore model that someone here recommended.  I have the double impacts and the impact monitors and run them with rhythmik subwoofers as they are in large listening spaces.  I'd give tekton a call and talk to Eric the owner about your preferences.  They have so many models and options that it can be a little daunting.  But I'd say moabs with ceramics or their new Ulfbehrt 15 would probably crush the competition. 

Best of luck to you in your search!  I suggest sticking with your speaker swap for all it's worth.  As nice as the Cornwalls sound (i've heard almost all the klipsch designs) I think the tektons are just way more realistic sounding from top to bottom.  Check out the stereotimes, and stereophile articles on their models that have been reviewed!

Try the Yamaha NS5000 which I have in my Livingroom with a CODA #16 and Schitt Yggi+ OG DAC. I think the drivers on it are unsurpassed by ANY cone driver speaker. The drivers are made of a material called Zylon and it is very similar to Beryllium but not harsh sounding. The 12-inch woofer is made of the same material as the tiny tweeter (and the mid). No one does that and the coherence is amazing because of this. Try finding a 12-inch woofer made from Beryllium.

This speaker is the successor to the Yamaha NS1000 which was the first speaker (in the 1970’s) to use Beryllium on the tweeter and the mid. Yamaha has moved beyond Beryllium.

I compared this to a few Magicos | Parasound Persona (tweeter and mid made from Beryllium) | Revel | Vandersteen | Clarysis .(sp?) | Magnepan.

The NS5000 price is from $10k to $15k. I paid $12k for a new one. I also threw out the shipping boxes.

I recently lost my home office space and sold my Magnepan LRS+ office system. The best part of that is that I now blast the NS5000 from my Livingroom while I work on the open second floor space. Incredible sound even in this setup.

They are called bookshelf speakers but that must be a joke. You need a large room. Luckily, I have very tall ceilings (over 20 feet) to offset a medium sized room.

OP: "I want to replace my Klipsch Cornwalls with new speakers"

Responder: "No you don't. I don't use them, but Klipsch Cornwalls can be made great by switching all your other equipment."

Why is it so hard to treat the OP as a rational person that knows what he wants?

If depth, scale and live music vibe is what you’re looking for, why not Magnepans?

That’s why I have them.

I highly recommend seeking an audition of the Børresen X3s somewhere, preferably with a ballsy amp, not one of the Axxess integrateds of their sister company.

I power mine with a Yamaha A-S2100. Out of ≈40 pair of loudspeakers I’ve owned over the last decade, the X3s have been most consistently good at handling all genres, and not once have I been disappointed with any particular song I’ve played through this setup. They are also the only speaker with which I haven’t encountered at least one “wart” after a couple months of ownership. The only real “weakness” if I had to pick one is the lack of first-octave bass. With most music they play plenty deep and I can enjoy them completely without a subwoofer. Coming from Cornwalls though, you’d likely be very content with their bass extension.

I am very familiar with the Klipsch Heritage sound. One thing that both the Cornwalls and X3s excel at is low volume dynamics. I pretty well agree with Steve Guttenberg’s review of the X3s with exception of soundstage—the X3s are the only speaker that have managed to achieve soundstage depth equal to my departed Magnepans. One thing of which I am certain is that you’d be impressed by the X3’s level of refinement. That’s not to knock the Klipsch, merely stating that they’re on a completely different level in that regard. But then the X3s are more refined than most $10-$15K speakers IME.

@treepmeyer , very interesting. Thank you. This is something worthy of researching to learn more. 

OP - I'd like to respectfully suggest that before you traded in your Klipsch speakers you consider another solution for your desired "scale in presentation."  I have had the Theoretica Bacch4Mac application for spacial realism and the Bacch ORC for advanced room correction.  I use this with Stirling LS3/6 speakers.  Take a look & do some research.  You may get what you want and get to keep your CWIV's.  Best of luck.

+1 @doyle3433 Volti Lucera, or Volti Rival, maybe Volti Razz. Very efficient.

I heard Volti Razz at several audio shows, sounded great top to bottom. The new model Lucera has the same size transducers as the Rivals. I own the Rivals.

Listen to Vandersteen

@jbhiller JBL M2 will work for you nicely! in your room you will not be needed more that 10W amp to make walls shaking! JBL is highly competitive manufacturer, and provides customers (ref series) with comprehensive test results for each unit (freq response, distortions etc).

If you already have heavily modded Khorns and still want more, I'm going to jump on the "work on the listening room" bandwagon or the electronic equivalent by measuring room response and figuring out how best to improve it with PEQ. In the 'buy another pair of speaker' camp I will go on record saying Khorns are among the best sounding speakers I have ever heard in stock form Circa 1980. I put in the same category Ohm As. The current model Ohm F5 is a worthy contender according Evan at Ohm loudspeakers, he says the F5 is even better than the Ohm A that preceded it. I cannot vouch for the F5 but the Ohm A sounded better to me than the Khorns with the kind of soundstage that you want. You may not know how much you want it, but trust me You want what Ohm offers. Before making that kind of investment, I suggest you find someone within reasonable distance to audition a pair of Ohms of any size or age so you can experience the soundstage. I very much like my Ohm 2000s especially because of the soundstage. I think you will too. Give Evan a call, his number is listed on their website.

Have you considered corner horns?  Volti has a Khorn upgrade kit that added to a used pair of khorns will be in budget and compete with the best.  That was my plan but my corner horns sounded so good that I focused on all the electronics instead and am saving the upgrade till last.  Mine are about 18 feet apart and fill the whole space like no other speaker I've heard

++++++++1 for Volti speakers. I have a friend that is a long time Klipsch guy, and in fact spent thousands and thousands of dollars modifying his speakers to the point where they sounded really good.

He now owns Volti Razz speakers in his second system, and Volti Luceras in his main system. Better than any Klipsch stock or modified I have ever heard (and it is not even close), and the Luceras are magic. I will add another pair of speakers in 2025 or 2026, and the Luceras will be in the final list. I have never heard the Volti Rivals, but I suspect they will be out of my price range anyway

The Fyne speakers can be really really good, but the models I would like (Vintage 10 or Vintage 15) are out of my price range.....but I prefer them to new Tannoy models.

jbhiller,

The monitor audio platinums are on a whole different level, they're one of the very few speakers that can throw a huge three-dimensional sound stage that envelopes the whole room and makes you feel like you're right in the middle of the performance there's not too many speakers that can do that, not Magico not Rockport, not Wilson and many other very expensive speakers, the platinums will best speakers costing two to three times as much.Their driver technology is way ahead of a lot of other high-end companies.

@mofojo 

Makes perfect sense. I over damped the mid horn in a pair of khorns once and had to remove some of it. Too much of a good thing sometimes.

When I got my Cornwalls they were completely lined inside with No Rez from GR Research. I removed the No Rez from 1 speaker and compared to the other one. I much preferred the non No Rezzed cabinet. The No Rez sucked the life and mid bass out of the speaker. It did however seem to extend the lower bass noticeably. YMMV. 

Borresen x3, Technic SB g90 M2, or Encore Tekton.

@zuesman , Yes, I have high respect for Monitor Audio. I owned a pair of studio bookshelf monitors in the late 1990s that I felt were so much better than B&W 805s that I lusted after. Monitor Audio does, just like you say, ride a nice line between musical and analytical. 

I've heard the Platinum 200s in some generation a few years back and liked them. I'll put them on the list too. 

No mention of the recent release of one of the PS Audio Aspen speakers. Worth considering. FR10 or FR20 

+1 @sgordoxyz , The FR10 @ $10,000 which still gets the pm midrange would be considered high value in OP's budget. 

@sns ​​​​@ozzy62 ,

I use two REL subs, fine tuned nicely where you cannot tell there are in the system--unless I turn them off. I play in a couple of bands and my ear is pretty darn good at integrated a sub to taste. They help immensely. 

SNS, can you shoot me a PM with the inductor values on the CWIV crossover?  I never tested them. I'd be curious to the values and what you used. I may tried (just because and for fun).  I also may try to dampen the cabinet further.  I didn't go hog wild on that because, like Harbeth, the cabinet might be part of the sonic signature. 

I had Cornwall IVs pulled off the wall about 3 ft using dual 15" subs. Yeah, the imaging was better in that position but still not as good as non horn speakers.

Certainly there are certain designed in limitations with wide baffles of stock Klipsch Heritage. All the more reason to really pay attention to physical setup of system in room. Close to wall positioning in order to reinforce bass will compromise imaging, sound staging, pulling out from wall means opposite compromises. Only cure if keeping Corwalls is adding subs or dsp (equalization).

There are a lot of things to love about the Klipsch Heritage speakers and I'm certainly a fan. And I think they do image better than most people give them credit. But it's not their strong suit. I have owned many other speakers that have better depth and separation. You just have to accept it for what it is.

@jbhiller If you're open to further modding the Cornwalls changing out the inductors was extremely worthwhile, stock Klipsch not so good. I went to Jantzens, higher resolving, greater transparency, more natural timbre.

Klipsch Heritage can image if correct mods to speaker undertaken, room and setup optimized. High racks between speakers is no, no, diffusion on front wall is a good start. I've owned both box and open baffle speakers placed well out into room, my Klipschorns don't lack in depth of sound stage even though required placement has them right up against front wall in corner, I do have bay window between speakers which obviously serves to help in providing sound stage depth.

In regard to replacement speaker, assuming you like the horn presentation I'd stick with horns. As for myself, I know all about never saying never, but my Klipschorns are my end game speakers. Horns all about presence, you get an overwhelming sense of performers in room that is simply intoxicating for me. High resolution/transparency, dynamics inherent to the design. Get the imaging, sound staging and timbre right, you can have it all.

I have owned & thoroughly enjoyed my Volti Rivals for almost 3 years. I heard them at the Capitol Audiofest & bought the show pair after a few different listening sessions & comparing them to what I heard at a few other speaker companies including Klipsch. They strike a good balance of big, open, very dynamic & effortless sound yet still quite detailed, image well height & width wise ( ok on depth) & sound more like live music that most speakers out there. They’re also fairly easy to set up & get sounding very good. As they’re very sensitive, they don’t require heroic amplification to sound excellent although if you enjoy music up loud in a big room such as yours, a good quality 20- 40 watts / side would  probably be advisable for big peaks. 
 

There are many speakers in their price range that are a bit more detailed & bat range extended on the high end, can plumb the depths of sub 30hz bass ( although most likely no where near as tight & dynamic from 30 - 60 hz where it mostly counts anyway) & can pinpoint image better than the Rivals. If those are essential, then another speaker is probably a better choice. If you’re like myself where a good amount of those features are important but also want to be able to easily kick ass w/ big, live sound at realistic volume levels, the Volti’s should be given serious consideration. 

I had the Cornwall IV for some months last year. They did some things very well and were always a fun listen. I had to have them pretty close to the walls to get what I’d call respectable bass out of them. 
 

I picked up a pair of Paradigm Founder 120H after that while I still had them. Went back and forth for a few weeks and the Paradigms were definite keepers. If you can find a place to check them out I think you might be very surprised. The 120H in particular does not need a lot of power because of the powered woofers from 300hz down. They are dynamic monsters and refined to boot. I’m running a Pass Labs xa 30.5 with them now and the needle doesn’t move no matter how hard I push them. 

Tannoy or Fyne can be a logical next step from Klipsch, especially if looking for more refinement in presentation.

You should look at the monitor audio platinum series as well much better than the Wharfedale flagships, they are very three-dimensional airy and spacious and are very neutral sounding, The sound stage is very enveloping it will wrap around the whole room and make you feel like you're right in the middle of the performance.

You should check out the monitor audio platinum series they are very three-dimensional Airy and spacious and have a very enveloping sound stage, they make you feel like you're right in the middle of the performance. I have the monitor audio platinum 200 ll and I absolutely love them, I have not heard another speaker at any price that throws as huge as sound stage, it just envelops the whole room.

I would consider adding Sonus Faber to your list. You can find used Serafinos in your price range. I have never heard more lifelike spatial speakers.