PayPal Friends & Family listings. Why is this becoming so common?

Cash and local pickup only. I’ve had people drive hundreds and over 1000 miles to pickup the item, even when I had the original boxes.
When I have sold items overseas, there is no signature required option after it leaves the states, so I demanded that the money be sent to me and clears before I ship the product.
 I used to sell with F&F thinking it was safer/less hackable but it isn’t.

BTW, PayPal protection is worthless!

Years ago, I purchased two cables for $900 from a buyer with 100% positive feedback. I never received the cables. Since USPS Priority Mail uses geotracking, the local Postmaster confirmed that the package was time-stamped and delivered to my home. It probably was stolen off my front porch.

Paypal Protection requires that purchases with a value over $750 to have shipping insurance. The buyer wanted to save $3.95 and didn’t get the insurance. Paypal issued a full refund to me within 24 hours of my claim.  The seller lost $900.

- - - -

Whenever I sell an item via Paypal F&F, I always include Signature Confirmation Required - as well as shipping insurance. It’s worth $10 to me for peace of mind.

I just ignore anyone who insists on F&F.

Krellpuppy, making false statements, to bolster your dubious credibility, and then doubling down on them, is in keeping with the current climate; you must feel right at home, LOL. That’s what I got out of your little temper tantrum.

@krelldog 

As you know, IRS requires documentation. If you bought an amp for $2500 and sold it for $2K then you shouldn’t pay any tax cause you actually took a loss. I keep records of all transactions upto 5 years. I prepare an excel spreadsheet each year of all of my purchases and resale transactions and keep it handy for IRS. 

Not sure. My wife has had an account for a while, I just recently opened mine and haven’t used it yet.

OZZY- Are there daily limits with Venmo ?

I was in on the ground floor...okay on AGon 28 years. Your a complete ahole if thats what you got out of my question. And buying and selling locally before that.

WTF is wrong with you ?

+1 @lalitk ​​​​​@freediver 

I try to avoid PayPal altogether. My intention is to use Venmo going forward.

I sincerely doubt that you have been buying and selling here for 35 years. Audiogon was not in existence in the 1980s and started in 1996.

Example to the above... If I buy a used amp that sold new for 5000 and I buy it for 2500. I then eventually sell it for 2000. If I get a 1099 for 2000...how would I prove a loss at any of the above example? I wouldn't have an documentation to support my loss based on second hand sales.

I've bought and sold gear here and on AM for 35 years. The above example is always a huge fear. Thankfully its never happened to me. Although anything of great value I'm extremely careful on who i will sell too.

Question for all- I thought the IRS put on hold the demand for PP to disclose any transactions over 599.00,. or the issuing of a 1099. Is still the case ?

Any and all info on this would be greatly appreciated.

I'm not trying to hijack the thread...but feel this is relevant info regarding the OP original question.

2 reasons plain & simple...
1:Sellers are already having to discount prices beyond absurd just to move their gear & are not willing to throw another 3.5% for PP G&S fees away on top of that...
2:Unscrupulous buyers are using PP's Buyer First protection to scam sellers by causing some minimal damage to products then claiming "Not As Advertised",forcing an even further discount on already rock bottom pricing...I have,in the last year,fought off 2 different POS buyers trying this because I photograph every sold product heavily,as well as final packaging & attach these pics to shipping confirmed emails to buyer before they go out..

“If F&F makes anyone uncomfortable it’s really simple, dont buy from those sellers requesting it. ”

I am curious, all those opposing F&F option, would you be willing to pay PayPal fee?

I base my statement on US Audiomart, where I moderated the forums, and this may not be representative of the broader market at all, and certainly does not take into account Craigslist and the like, but currently there are 11,000 active listings on USAM, that has ranged to over 24,000 at times. Assuming their data is correct, that is very low and much lower than the pandemic years.

So granted I may be using the wrong metric. What metric are you using?

@viridian 

 there is less used gear on the market

my experience is the opposite

The only way to buy on "friends and family" terms is if the seller first sends the goodsout first on approval.

Not my experience either. With fewer folks buying new gear, there is less used gear on the market. The power has shifted from the buyers to the sellers, and the sellers are simply trying to indemnify themselves against fraud.

If F&F makes anyone uncomfortable it's really simple, dont buy from those sellers requesting it. 

“It seems like buyers demand around a 20% discount to take on the added risk of F&F. ”

I have not experienced that at all…my last 12 transactions on USAM, all F&F ranging between $16K - $150. I have sold items within 95% of my asking price. If a buyer wants protection, they can fork out 4% PayPal fee. IRS is a non-issue as you seldom make any profit when you reselling an item.

As far Trust goes, it’s a two way street. You need to do your due diligence in every transaction (feedback and pay close attention to how they are communicating), there are lot of good people out there.

BTW, PayPal protection is worthless! I never relied on them to do right by seller or buyer. 

I have had some scammers beg me to let them use regular PayPal when buying from me. The seller takes all the risk. If you want hard guarantees, buy from a dealer. I have made numerous purchases using F&F with no problems. Do your homework, ask the right questions and speak to the seller on the phone for significant purchases. 

My last listing a few weeks ago on Audiomart was F&F at the request of the buyer. Honestly, I didn't see a downside for me (Seller). I'm not a dealer and things I sell are always at a huge loss so I wouldn't get taxed anyway. It's just more paperwork for me on my side when I file my taxes. If I was the buyer this would be a very different situation for me. I would have to really know and trust someone to do that.

As has been mentioned, between the potential IRS involvement and scammers, it is worrisome.

ozzy

I've done about six deals on U.S. Audiomart.  All but one was F&F.  The one that wasn't was a dealer listing.  I would never do F&F unless a seller had excellent feedback or if the dollar amount was small.  A few sellers were willing to do standard PayPal goods and services if I paid the 3% PayPal fee. 

I see the same thing on Gunbroker.  Many sellers add 3% if you pay with a credit card.

@cleeds    +1 

Many buyers and/or sellers don't want to pay the additional cost involved with a regular PayPal transaction.

Many are afraid of the IRS 1099 reporting requirements.

Some sellers don"t trust PayPal's buyer's protection policy where they always (reportedly) side with the buyer regardless of circumstances.  PayPal's "Friends and Family" does not afford the buyer with any protection. 

I don't take seriously any seller who insists on F&F.