I don't take seriously any seller who insists on F&F.
PayPal Friends & Family listings. Why is this becoming so common?
I think most sellers now realize they are not going to have a taxable profit.
The F&F listings at market price don't seem to sell.
It seems like buyers demand around a 20% discount to take on the added risk of F&F.
I'm really just curious to hear what buyers & sellers think of this practice.
@cleeds +1 |
I've done about six deals on U.S. Audiomart. All but one was F&F. The one that wasn't was a dealer listing. I would never do F&F unless a seller had excellent feedback or if the dollar amount was small. A few sellers were willing to do standard PayPal goods and services if I paid the 3% PayPal fee. I see the same thing on Gunbroker. Many sellers add 3% if you pay with a credit card. |
My last listing a few weeks ago on Audiomart was F&F at the request of the buyer. Honestly, I didn't see a downside for me (Seller). I'm not a dealer and things I sell are always at a huge loss so I wouldn't get taxed anyway. It's just more paperwork for me on my side when I file my taxes. If I was the buyer this would be a very different situation for me. I would have to really know and trust someone to do that. |
I have had some scammers beg me to let them use regular PayPal when buying from me. The seller takes all the risk. If you want hard guarantees, buy from a dealer. I have made numerous purchases using F&F with no problems. Do your homework, ask the right questions and speak to the seller on the phone for significant purchases. |
“It seems like buyers demand around a 20% discount to take on the added risk of F&F. ” I have not experienced that at all…my last 12 transactions on USAM, all F&F ranging between $16K - $150. I have sold items within 95% of my asking price. If a buyer wants protection, they can fork out 4% PayPal fee. IRS is a non-issue as you seldom make any profit when you reselling an item. As far Trust goes, it’s a two way street. You need to do your due diligence in every transaction (feedback and pay close attention to how they are communicating), there are lot of good people out there. BTW, PayPal protection is worthless! I never relied on them to do right by seller or buyer. |
Not my experience either. With fewer folks buying new gear, there is less used gear on the market. The power has shifted from the buyers to the sellers, and the sellers are simply trying to indemnify themselves against fraud. If F&F makes anyone uncomfortable it's really simple, dont buy from those sellers requesting it. |
I base my statement on US Audiomart, where I moderated the forums, and this may not be representative of the broader market at all, and certainly does not take into account Craigslist and the like, but currently there are 11,000 active listings on USAM, that has ranged to over 24,000 at times. Assuming their data is correct, that is very low and much lower than the pandemic years. So granted I may be using the wrong metric. What metric are you using? |
2 reasons plain & simple... |
I've bought and sold gear here and on AM for 35 years. The above example is always a huge fear. Thankfully its never happened to me. Although anything of great value I'm extremely careful on who i will sell too. Question for all- I thought the IRS put on hold the demand for PP to disclose any transactions over 599.00,. or the issuing of a 1099. Is still the case ? Any and all info on this would be greatly appreciated. I'm not trying to hijack the thread...but feel this is relevant info regarding the OP original question. |
+1 @lalitk @freediver I try to avoid PayPal altogether. My intention is to use Venmo going forward. |
As you know, IRS requires documentation. If you bought an amp for $2500 and sold it for $2K then you shouldn’t pay any tax cause you actually took a loss. I keep records of all transactions upto 5 years. I prepare an excel spreadsheet each year of all of my purchases and resale transactions and keep it handy for IRS. |
Years ago, I purchased two cables for $900 from a buyer with 100% positive feedback. I never received the cables. Since USPS Priority Mail uses geotracking, the local Postmaster confirmed that the package was time-stamped and delivered to my home. It probably was stolen off my front porch. Paypal Protection requires that purchases with a value over $750 to have shipping insurance. The buyer wanted to save $3.95 and didn’t get the insurance. Paypal issued a full refund to me within 24 hours of my claim. The seller lost $900. - - - - Whenever I sell an item via Paypal F&F, I always include Signature Confirmation Required - as well as shipping insurance. It’s worth $10 to me for peace of mind. |