Looking for a new (preowned OK) line stage under $5K: suggestions?

+++ Carry Audio SLP-05.  Runs newer 6SN7 and sounds great  bone stock. 

The reviews say right channel as slightly higher output the left.  Works for me.

I have seen some very good musicians who could have anything and know good sound and this is the preamp they currently own. 

 

OK after the suggestions and some research, narrowed my options to the following:

New:

Backert Labs Rhumba 1.3

EAR 868

Cary SLP98

Used:

Audio Research Reference 2 or 3

VAC Renaissance

Conrad Johnson ET5

I kinda prefer new as the used units may be hard to source and some might be going on 20 years old (ARC).

Any further guidance?

+2 on Conrad Johnson ET5. It’s a fantastic preamp with magical midrange.

Wyetech Labs Opal with 6SN7's is the best sounding preamp I've experienced (also the Ruby). Instant and noticable appreciation of the soundstage expansion and dimensionality. 

+1 on Conrad Johnson ET5. It’s a fantastic preamp with magical midrange.

VTA at http://www.tubes4hifi.com/. I bought the SP14 ultimate as a kit and have NEVER been happier. 

The Theta genviii s3 is also an option to consider, i love mine!

I recently purchased the PrimaLuna Evo400 line stage new. I could not be happier. Sound is awesome. Build quality is becoming legendary in the marketplace. They sell new just over 5200.00

I us d to own many Classe preamps and amps. If you like the Classe line, the cp60 is a big jump up, or the newer cp800. The newer preamps I’ve had recently or have experience with are the McIntosh 47 with included dac and 2 input phono preamp included (the dac was just ok, the phono preamps were better) or the ps audio bhk signature preamp. 

newer c-j is much much less euphonic that older stuff pv-12 pv-14 what have you... like many other makers, their sound has been modernized in recent generations, more air, clarity and slam without loss of midrange and imaging magic

As evidenced by this thread, there are a great many choices. We may have reached the point where recommendations become overwhelming and therefore useless.

At the risk of making things worse, I recommend either an ASR Basis Exclusive or a Zanden 120. Both of which pop up used for around $5K.

Good luck.

I’ve always liked CJ gear but a little too euphoric for my taste now when compared to other preamps... YMMV

bobbydd

 

Another +vote for Conrad Johnson.

 

Happy Listening!

get the best and newest c-j you can afford.... good luck in your quest

I recently bought a Pass XA25 (an amazingly great sounding amp) that is proving how superb my Schiit Freya actually is. I don't recommend buying a Freya (Freya + now) as although having recently garnered a "Class A" rating it's way too inexpensive to fend off audio price snobbery and hey...who needs that?

@jumia 

 

From my experience DSP is a great way to remove the musicality of a system. While improving… still touching and fiddling with a signal is the quickest way to low FI. 

"as a touch more midrange bloom"

Any tube unit will do.  I did that once.  If you want the tone of one equipment to make up for another, give it 15 years and you will end up replacing everything seeking ultimate sound.  Aim for neutrality as some source materials are warm, others sibilant. 

In a true reference system, the worst part of it is the LP or the production studio. 

 

Big fan of the Zesto Leto. Problem with the Audible Illusions is that you must be very careful with retubing. Berning is also excellent but he isnt selling his own name brand any longer and he has no LTA offering which competes with his last preamp design with his name on the component.

With my Pass XA25 I eventually added the Pass XP12 preamp, and it’s the best match I’ve found, especially since you are seeking a touch of midrange bloom.  Along with a couple of different Audio Research preamps, by far the best I’ve used. Problems with Pass would be new price is above your target, $5900 I think. And also there likely will be a wait to get it. 
 

in any case, have fun!

I paid $2000 for a mint condition Audible Illusions M3B, which was one of the best purchases I've made in audio. L3B (similar to M3B but with a remote and without phono) is also worthwhile to consider.

Without hesitation, Audible Illusions L3A!

How come no one talks about DSP as a way to improve acoustics?

You can get these with any art you want covering the panels and they are only 2’ X 2’ and said to be very effective

Assuming your speakers are up against the view… glass. Tube diffusers behind your speakers… no higher than your speakers.. Wall behind add a decorative thick woven carpet. Diffuser panels at side reflection points. I don’t know what your room looks like adapt ideas.

There could be a key place you absolutely need a panel. Then make it self standing and slide it out of the way when not listening. The real key is to figure out what treatments are required… then figure out how to make them unobtrusive or movable. Test with a ladder and a hung set of blankets or some other proxy to figure out what it takes. Then think through how to make it happen either looking good or movable.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

A big problem with this system is that the listening area features A LOT of glass, a design feature to showcase wonderful mountain views that cannot be compromised.  Additionally, ceiling height in the listening area is only 7 1/2 feet, which is not helpful.

I'm thinking a demo (loaner) line stage is a reasonable path to testing the potential benefits.

Also may order a few portable acoustic panels from GIK Acoustics (relatively inexpensive) and see how much I can improve the room (and hide them under a bed when not in use).

A ceiling diffuser would be ideal, but a no go with the missus so ...

 

6SN7 based tube amp or get a Shindo if you can swing it!

Keith Herron/Herron Audio makes some superb preamps.... 

Zavfino Prima MKII OCC Speaker Cable would probably be a good match for the Pulsars. They seem to be rich in the lower and mid frequencies. In my system it is a little too much (Fyne F 1-8 speakers). 

I second the Rogue RP-7 preamp with NOS tubes. It is what I use, though the rest of my system is very different from yours. I had a Benchmark LA-4 that I sold after trying out the Rogue. The LA-4 is really excellent but it is not going to get you the bloom and richness that you are seeking. 

Very happy with my line amp, LA-4 from Benchmark, SS design. $2599 which includes a very nice remote and a 30 day trial period, made in upstate NY. Rory is the person you will deal with, Top notch company, Nothing to lose. Robert TN

I recommend the Lamm LL2.1

Not sure that colour coding the line stage is the way to go. Have you tried toeing in the speakers to where they cross just in front of your listening position?

That's a nice list of goodies.

I would document what you are actually getting with a sound level meter and a test cd with individual frequency bands, then you know how much and which specific frequencies you need to 'tame'.

meter, tripod mount, put it ear level at listening position.

 

I use this Test CD, tracks 9-38 are 1/3rd octave from 25hz to 25k

 

If you cannot find it for a reasonable price, write me a message about it.

..................................

After charting what you are getting, you might find a different location and/or toe-in helps

I'm a big fan of level controls, both my main speakers (electrovoice drivers from 1956) and office (ar-2ax from 1967) have two level controls. Adjust the mid to the woofer, adjust the tweeter to the mid (interactive and l/r together, it ain't easy). Like yours, the quality/character of the sound is determined, only the relative volume is altered. After that, the character of the sound can be altered in small ways as you suggest, but I would not go at it without documenting what's what.

I just had my Classe Five fully refurbished/upgraded, and this accomplished much of what you are looking for...

Why not go with one of Pass Labs preamps for some synergy with your XA25 amp? I’m driving my XA30.8 with XP-12 and it sounds fantastic.

For warmer cables try Acoustic Zen Matrix Reference II.
I tried Synergistic and I found them veiled, not warm. 

Maybe consider something like the Anthem STR preamp, which comes with room correction ("ARC"). This may be the way to go if your issues come from room effects that you cannot manage with treatments (although you still might want to try putting down a rug first).

The basic issue is that the room is somewhat too "live" sounding, and my wife won’t approve of room treatments (it’s also a family room).

I assume you have hardwood floors. An area rug looks good and is effective in taming a lively room. Draperies on the windows also are beneficial. Iow, room treatments can also enhance the look of the room too.

I'm not sure exactly what the US dollar pricing is as I'm in Europe, but a Pass XP 12 should be close to your budget. It will be a lot more transparent than your DR 5.

Yes, get the MicroZOTL Preamp and don’t look back. You will not be disappointed.

My LTA MicroZotl mates very well with my Pass labs X250.8, and you wont find a nicer company to deal with! I have rolled the tubes, with further improvement

I’d get a preamp using the 6sn7 tube. Mod Wright, Cary, Supratek, Aric among others make tube pre’s using this tube. Many Pass owners like the Cary.

For under 5k used you can get a rogue RP-7 and some nice NOS tubes. I'll agree with bdp24 though when he says a preamp is unlikely to solve your problems. If there's not enough stuff in the room and it sounds too live maybe appeal to your wife by seeing what could be added to soften thr room. Like put a rug down if it's a wood or tile floor. Or get some window treatments if there's a lot of glass. These types of things, while not nearly ad exciting as buying a new piece of gear will make a marked difference in how the room sounds.

 

The Cary Audio SLP-98 new comes in right at your stated price goal. That’s with some upgrades tossed in. I’ve had mine for over a year now and it’s a keeper.

No pre-amp will solve the problems created by room acoustics. A better approach than to change pre-amps might be to switch to a loudspeaker which interacts less with the room. A dipole planar has significantly less floor, ceiling, and side-wall reflections that does a cone & dome design, though of course greater front-wall reflections (which can be dealt with).

++2 Cary SLP05 ultimate upgrade. I bought mine used for $4350. It’s da bomb!

https://www.audio-markt.de/market/canary-audio-dual-mono-ca-801-p-signature-edition-7360649022

 

 

Might try and find one of these on this side of the pond. One of the very best preamplifier s I have ever heard. 

I recently bought an LTA MZ3 and think it’s pretty incredible. Almost went with Aric Audio Super which might be more inline with what you’re looking for. Or even the Motherlode if you want to stretch your budget. I had set a $5k cap on my search too. Backert, Modwright, Primaluna, and Cary all have models you should at least research. Good luck.

I've went through a few preamps trying to find exactly what you're looking for.

"looking to maximize dynamics as well as a touch more midrange bloom and dimensionality"

I had a Dennis had Inspire, a BAT, a few more and now an Allnic L3000. They were all excellent, but they were just a tad different from each other. None of them really stood out from the next. They will just be different..

I had them matched to many amps. A Modwright KWA 150SE, Audio Research VT100, VT80SE, Pass Labs X150.8, First Watt F8, and even an Audion Super Sterling. 

I gave up as nothing really made my system elevate much more. Its already very good but I was looking for more.

Then, a month ago, I purchased a Kinki Studios EX-M7 power amp. Speakers and the everything upstream remained the same.  It gave me dimensionality Ive never heard before. It is outstanding. Transients will surprise. A veritable treat. Bass handling is very precise, fast, not boomy and with a lot of texture. 

Its dimensionality is what really got me. It's exceptional. Highly recommended,

 

 

Zesto Leto is a great preamp.  Blackest background and explosive dynamics but still great detail.   Amazing preamp.   There have been several versions , I have the first and its great .   Their support and service is top notch,  I would buytheLeto Ultra II if I had the cash.   Great equipment